1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

This reeks of Boomer Facebook post.

Hey, I’m a boomer and I disagree entirely with HFF’s post... the first step towards addressing mental health issues is to open up to those close to you... too many people have left us too soon, particularly men, because it’s considered a weakness. I think the message that Lyon was trying to get across was also that we should be asking the question, ruOK?, when a mate might not seem quite right... we should be breaking down that manly artifice.

Edited March 28, 20214 yr by hardtack

25 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

What a strange thread 

Garry and Stewart Lowe spoke really well

For years men “got through” depression with a six pack and a packet of cigarettes 

“Toughen up ya wimp”

thankfully now the support network is a little more refined

In furious agreement.

I went through a bout of depression at the start of the last decade. It was around the time I started posting here though I doubt anyone who read my posts at the time would have had any idea I was in a place where I was struggling to get up before 10AM most days.

The trough of my depression didn’t turn up overnight. Like water lapping against a rock and wearing away it’s sedimentary layers, a legacy of neglecting self care, not opening up to those closest to me and, as @Sir Why You Littlestated, conflating throwing back a six pack or bottle of red with ‘tackling the problem’ led to a situation where the options I had were restricted to either:

1) actually getting proper help 

or

2) continuing my dizzying descent into potential oblivion 

A lot of the lifestyle I led was a reverberation of the value system instilled in me from my youth that strongly intimated that blokes were meant to be strong and just had to ‘get over it’. That there was something inherently wrong with me and that being depressed was a personal and intentional failing. Where genuine resilience was mistaken for abnormal emotional suppression. 
 If I’d just opened up earlier with family and friends when things weren’t at code red, I might have avoided the worst of that time and mightn’t have needed to get more specialized help (though I’ll leave that judgement to those with more expertise than me). I’d also add that support and acceptance from mates would have also given me more self esteem rather than the shame I was feeling.

It’s only now that I feel comfortable talking about this, and that’s because of the efforts of people like Wayne Schwass and Danny Frawley to lift the stigma surrounding depression and anxiety. I’d recommend the following episode of ‘Open Mike’ as an excellent guide as to what depression feels like, as well as why men need to speak more freely about it.

If you are struggling, don’t bottle it up. Getting on the front foot is the best thing you can do.

 

 

swing and a miss HFF

you have NO IDEA what you are talking about @Half forward flank - the phrase 'better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to open your mouth [or in this case post on demonland] and remove all doubt' comes to mind

danny and gary were great mates and gary - along with many of his friends and co-workers like dunstall, etc. - was DEVASTATED when the news came through about his suicide; he spoke eloquently and from the heart

i worked at fox footy at the time and it was a terrible, terrible thing to have happen; their support for their staff who were greatly affected by what happened was far better than anything they offered when they went through three rounds of redundancies in 2020

Edited March 28, 20214 yr by whatwhat say what

1 hour ago, Half forward flank said:

Mates, mates, mates. Does Gary realise women get depression?

Do women not have mates?

1 hour ago, Turner said:

swing and a miss HFF

Did not know it was meant to be competition.

56 minutes ago, boydie said:

Do women not have mates?

Friends. never heard a women refer to a friend as a mate.

 

1 hour ago, whatwhat say what said:

you have NO IDEA what you are talking about @Half forward flank - the phrase 'better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to open your mouth [or in this case post on demonland] and remove all doubt' comes to mind

danny and gary were great mates and gary - along with many of his friends and co-workers like dunstall, etc. - was DEVASTATED when the news came through about his suicide; he spoke eloquently and from the heart

i worked at fox footy at the time and it was a terrible, terrible thing to have happen; their support for their staff who were greatly affected by what happened was far better than anything they offered when they went through three rounds of redundancies in 2020

You talk about fox footy, the boys club as if i should be impressed. 

My last word ever on this site.

I urge anyone feeling a combination of sad, teary lethargic, unhappy, overwhelmed, a feeling of worthlessness, using excessive alcohol or drugs to go to your doctor or contact an agency like beyond blue. 

I very nearly ended up like Danny.

I had talked to a mate about where I was mentally.

He had no tools or experience to help me other than offering mateship. So i battled on for two years

It took three months in a clinic, and an  expert to diagnose severe clinical depression which was treated with therapy and finely tuned medication to balance my chemical inbalance. 

See ya. 

 

3 hours ago, hardtack said:

Hey, I’m a boomer and I disagree entirely with HFF’s post... the first step towards addressing mental health issues is to open up to those close to you... too many people have left us too soon, particularly men, because it’s considered a weakness. I think the message that Lyon was trying to get across was also that we should be asking the question, ruOK?, when a mate might not seem quite right... we should be breaking down that manly artifice.

Agreed.

I think the challenge of asking your mates if they r ok is a hard issue though.

Sometimes people dont want to divulge or feel they are being "different".

Tough call at times.

In any case..its great footy is now an avenue for such discussions to take place.

Edited March 28, 20214 yr by leave it to deever

6 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

I do not know what Danny Frawley would have thought about Gary Ego Lyon ranting to the players of both sides about looking each other in the eye before combat as if it that has anything to do with combating depression. The last thing anyone should be advising people to do when someone has depression is speak to their mates., It requires professional help and sometimes medication. I felt for Danny when it was clear he was still suffering from depression and he was on radio advising others how to cope with it. It is not that sort of disease. Seek professional help if you are feeling depressed. 

I suppose it’s different with every case. I got hit pretty hard with it last year. My GP was great, the Psychologist(s) didn’t do all that much for me. The best thing was knowing I had mates that cared and would call or text me randomly just asking how I was going and letting me know that they were there for me.  

Edited March 28, 20214 yr by Ethan Tremblay

I was feeling down. Coincidence had me at a time with a doctors appointment.

Mentioned it to him. He said, "that is a bit of an exaggeration". So, basically fobbed me off. Changed doctors pretty quickly. 

Some professionals know it is a complicated issue to treat. Others, prefer the simple 15 minute consultation (physical) to addressing mental health and the associated psychological, social and spiritual components. 

Self harm is a terrible symptom to be suffering. 

Silence is not the way to deal with it.

If we had a broken arm we would be straight off to get help from the appropriate services.

Wishing mental health services could be as easily accessed by all who may need them.

Stigma, uncertainty of outcome, medication targeting inaccuracies, poor quality of assistance, all lead to us having to use the most compassionate and effective solution, that of a friend.

I have had major depression since 2006, and even though I'm a female it was very hard for me to accept it was even true at first.

I lost a lot of friends during this time, but thankfully i had the GP who has been there for me, and helped me at my darkest times.

Football as they say is more then a game, and i have made some great friends through our club, who have become part of my family.

Football is such a huge part of our lives, and although it is very sad Danny Frawley is no longer with us, the Frawley family are doing an amazing job, as well as the rest of the football community in bringing awareness, to all of us, that it's ok to reach out and get help.

9 hours ago, Biffen said:

The AFLs need to attach every game to a cause or an issue is really irritating.

I dont like being told how to think ,or what to think about societal issues or personal values on matters the AFL thinks it can inform or "highlight".

Many of us go to the football,or turn on the game just to relax. 

I suppose people will will point to "The Big Freeze"  as a good way to raise funds for a worthy cause but it now seems to be every single game. 

I know where you are coming from Bn, but its a fine line.

I have mixed emotions as a good cause is to say the obvious ...a good cause.

I also get people see footy as a pure escape from stuff and dont want to think about other issues.

Hmmm...my  post has solved nothing.?

You clearly went through something personal @Half forward flank and if that last post was indeed your last on the site all the best to you. But the takeaway from Spuds game was multi-layered because the world is ever evolving. I’m not sure how old you are but you strike me as someone from the baby-boomer gen, nothing wrong with that at all but I think that generation and older looks a bit down on guys having feelings.

One side of things that Spuds game is meant to achieve is for blokes to feel ok about reaching out to someone who THEY think might be struggling, and you have to be prepared to really listen and take in what’s being said. It sounds like a snowflake thing to say but toxic masculinity is a big issue with guys not being willing to either open up or listen to a mate open up, we tend to side step it by having a laugh or by telling them to harden up. As someone said before, women don’t have as high a rate of suicide because they really talk to each other. 

The other side like the other point is allowing blokes to feel safe about opening up to issues with each other. Rather than just answering the question of “how ya doing” with “not bad yaself” guys needs to feel ok to say, “you know what mate I’m struggling and I need to talk about it”.

What you said is also true, there is only so much friends can take on, and quite often they need to be the middleman to say, “I’m here for you and happy to chat, but I think you should speak to a professional as well”. 

As well as talking to mates, guys need to let their guard down to theirs wives/GF’s/partners. My fiancée noticed when I’m stressed and I feel lighter when I’m open about it, I really feel for the Frawley family, he seemed like a lovely guy with what very little interaction I had with him. 

Edited March 28, 20214 yr by Pates

All the best anyone going through depression or any other mental condition. There is nothing worse. 

People deal with it in different ways. I hope HFF you are ok and don’t take feedback on here the wrong way. You’re a good poster so hopefully you come back soon

7 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

My last word ever on this site.

I urge anyone feeling a combination of sad, teary lethargic, unhappy, overwhelmed, a feeling of worthlessness, using excessive alcohol or drugs to go to your doctor or contact an agency like beyond blue. 

I very nearly ended up like Danny.

I had talked to a mate about where I was mentally.

He had no tools or experience to help me other than offering mateship. So i battled on for two years

It took three months in a clinic, and an  expert to diagnose severe clinical depression which was treated with therapy and finely tuned medication to balance my chemical inbalance. 

See ya. 

 

I hope this thread isn't the reason you never come back here HFF. People like to disagree but you aren't unwanted.

You don't see a link between the friend offering you mateship and your courage to battle on? Even if he couldn't provide the help you needed if he offered you a connection, a reason to keep going and a space to talk without feeling helpless that might've been a good thing. No one is saying don't get professional help, but sometimes going to a friend is the best way to get the confidence needed to either keep fighting or go to the professionals.

As it stands a lot of men won't seek help from the professionals so the campaigning is about breaking down that stigma. It's that stigma that holds a lot of us back and the only way to really get rid of it is getting it out in the open. 

 

I loved Danny Frawley. He struck me as a rare, and caring, and very funny, individual.

It’s desperately sad that he couldn’t see the positives in his life and that he cut it tragically short.

Some of the posts here are just ridiculous - I can’t believe I’m actually reading them.

I hope his struggles ultimately enable others to seek help. Round 2 each year is now a very important round.

 

13 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

I do not know what Danny Frawley would have thought about Gary Ego Lyon ranting to the players of both sides about looking each other in the eye before combat as if it that has anything to do with combating depression. The last thing anyone should be advising people to do when someone has depression is speak to their mates., It requires professional help and sometimes medication. I felt for Danny when it was clear he was still suffering from depression and he was on radio advising others how to cope with it. It is not that sort of disease. Seek professional help if you are feeling depressed. 

Yes and No. You should be able to go to your mates, if they are real mates who can talk with you about anything. Not sure if Garry should be the best example of 1) a respected mental health advocate and 2) the type of mate you would go to with a problem.

Bill :  Something's off with me missus mate, can't quite put my finger on it... 

Garry : Geez is that the time??? I gotta run (or replace with any other disrepectful comment...)

21 minutes ago, RickyJ45 said:

Yes and No. You should be able to go to your mates, if they are real mates who can talk with you about anything. Not sure if Garry should be the best example of 1) a respected mental health advocate and 2) the type of mate you would go to with a problem.

Bill :  Something's off with me missus mate, can't quite put my finger on it... 

Garry : Geez is that the time??? I gotta run (or replace with any other disrepectful comment...)

Rubbish post.

Not that it should be your business, but they were well and truly separated before anything developed between Garry and Nicky. Might be hard for you to understand, but she is not "me missus", she is a person in her own right with her own free will.

Garry has gone through his own mental health battles and been pretty open about it all, especially given he's a pretty private person generally. He's also lost one of his best mates to this fight. Who are you to jump on the internet and start making personal judgments about people, none of whom you know, while trying to talk up the mental health cause.

 

52 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Rubbish post.

Not that it should be your business, but they were well and truly separated before anything developed between Garry and Nicky. Might be hard for you to understand, but she is not "me missus", she is a person in her own right with her own free will.

Garry has gone through his own mental health battles and been pretty open about it all, especially given he's a pretty private person generally. He's also lost one of his best mates to this fight. Who are you to jump on the internet and start making personal judgments about people, none of whom you know, while trying to talk up the mental health cause.

 

You fair dinkum Garry's Mate?

Not my business?  It is public info which is plastered over the news by public figures who chose to make it so.

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/afl-billy-brownless-garry-lyon-love-affair-ex-wife-former-mates-speaking-211840467.html

According to the media, the fact that Billy was shocked and taken unawares by Garry's "affair" probably suggests he would have preferred to have known earlier or before it happened?  Did Garry keep Billy in the loop about his feeling towards his ex? Based on Bill's reaction It would appear that he didn't and I am allowed to speculate on this because it was a reported public "scandal".

I know nothing about real mental health issues and their treatment and never claimed to do so but I know that open communication with your mates and respect for others and their situations is a good starting point for preventing lots of issues arising. The problem is that it is much easier said than done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 20214 yr by RickyJ45

3 minutes ago, RickyJ45 said:

You fair dinkum Garry's Mate?

Not my business?  It is public info which is plastered over the news by public figures who chose to make it so.

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/afl-billy-brownless-garry-lyon-love-affair-ex-wife-former-mates-speaking-211840467.html

According to the media, the fact that Billy was shocked and taken unawares by Garry's "affair" probably suggests he would have preferred to have known earlier or before it happened?  Did Garry keep Billy in the loop about his feeling towards his ex? Based on Bill's reaction It would appear that he didn't and I am allowed to speculate on this because it was a reported public "scandal".

I know nothing about real mental health issues and their treatment and never claimed to do so but I know that open communication with your mates and respect for others and their situations is a good starting point for preventing lots of issues arising. The problem is that it is much easier said than done.

Yeah. None of your business. Googling gossip articles by trashy news sources doesn't exactly help your point here.

Billy doesn't own Nicky. No one has to keep him 'in the loop' about what his ex is up to.

You're allowed to do whatever you like, but if you choose to spend your time speculating on the personal relationships of public people then it says more about you than them though.

15 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

I do not know what Danny Frawley would have thought about Gary Ego Lyon ranting to the players of both sides about looking each other in the eye before combat as if it that has anything to do with combating depression. The last thing anyone should be advising people to do when someone has depression is speak to their mates., It requires professional help and sometimes medication. I felt for Danny when it was clear he was still suffering from depression and he was on radio advising others how to cope with it. It is not that sort of disease. Seek professional help if you are feeling depressed. 

This is completely contrary to current advice on the issue.

Talk to someone.
Anyone.

If you’re the ‘mate’; listen.
Offer to help them find a professional.
Dont judge.
Be there for them.

 

10 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

My last word ever on this site.

I urge anyone feeling a combination of sad, teary lethargic, unhappy, overwhelmed, a feeling of worthlessness, using excessive alcohol or drugs to go to your doctor or contact an agency like beyond blue. 

I very nearly ended up like Danny.

I had talked to a mate about where I was mentally.

He had no tools or experience to help me other than offering mateship. So i battled on for two years

It took three months in a clinic, and an  expert to diagnose severe clinical depression which was treated with therapy and finely tuned medication to balance my chemical inbalance. 

See ya. 

 

I understand the point you are trying to make...and why.

...but not everyone's situation is the same.

You are relating from your personal experience and others personal experience may not be the same.

Some have shared differing personal experiences.

The mate you confided in wasn't particularly helpful, others have found the opposite.

I think the one thing we can all agree on is a need to open up rather than bottle it up.

There is no doubt when you are staring down the barrel of fully blown depression just talking with a mate is not going to solve the problem. I don't think that Lyon or anyone else was saying that it would but it can be a step.

Hopefully being more open will mean being more open to getting professional help, something that a lot of men don't do well and not just with mental health.

...and I think the flip side is to be aware and if a mate is struggling, talk or at least just try to be there for him. Some won't let you in but others will welcome some empathy and assistance where needed.

"No man is an island."

 

Edited March 28, 20214 yr by rjay

10 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

My last word ever on this site.

Sorry for the love icon. The love icon was sent as support for you, for having been through the three months of dealing with mental anguish (courageous and admirable).

I thought you meant last post on this subject.

Don't give up on us.

You have some excellent thoughts for me to digest.

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

Yeah. None of your business. Googling gossip articles by trashy news sources doesn't exactly help your point here.

Billy doesn't own Nicky. No one has to keep him 'in the loop' about what his ex is up to.

You're allowed to do whatever you like, but if you choose to spend your time speculating on the personal relationships of public people then it says more about you than them though.

I'm sorry, it is not just my business but it is everyone's business so pretending you can say it is not my business and therefore it goes away is la la land (and pathetic attempted bullying btw). As I said, public figures should expect their personal lives to be a discussion point whether they like or not. For good or bad there is massive social/media industry covering public relationships and I am not alone amongst the millions doing this on the daily basis. You can abuse me for doing so but just get over it.

You keep mentioning that it was "Nicky's choice" and she has free will - as if you have just discovered yesterday that women do/should have in fact have equal rights to men like the right to choose and not be "pegged down" in controlling relationship as you are implying. However this does not justify Garry's behaviour or choices.

Since you know Garry and the issue well :

- To say Garry did not need to keep Bill in the loop ( I think he did btw, but not sure) is just completely dis-repectful to a mate, because if he was a true mate, he would know how it affected Bill and would have treated it with care or not involved himself at all. Bill was widely reported as being very angry about it.

- Did Garry expect this would have caused issues with Bill ? How was Bill likely to take it and how would he react? Did Bill need more help than what Garry could provide? Did Bill need professional help?  Is Bill the complete obsessive love-sick nut job as he is being painted by you ?

As Garry is a public advocate of mental health, please tell us the answers so we can all :

1) Learn and benefit from the lessons here, does love conquer all?

2) Clean up any miss-correct media stories or public relations errors in releasing / covering this...