Clayton Oliver Contract negotiations

[Lord Nev 13,512]

11 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yze and Choco are well paid 

So they should be too, pretty much running the place atm.

[deanox 9,894]

2 hours ago, Jaded said:

How is that defeatist? It’s the team thing to do. He put a block so his teammate can have a clear run at the ball while he was being heavily tagged?

I thought that except for losing his cool once, he took it on the chin and actually played really well up forward, except for his goal conversion. If he kicks 3 goals is anyone even talking about his game?

Exactly.

In fact if he kicked 2 or 3 goals we'd actually have the media carrying on about how dangerous he is and how he can't be shut down etc.

And to be honest, I reckon he kicks 2 of those most weeks.

[Sir Why You Little 36,906]

15 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

So they should be too, pretty much running the place atm.

Yes it is a different place, I spoke to someone today who has been involved in many Zoom Meetings...

[monoccular 17,409]

2 hours ago, Dr.D said:

he didn't handle the tag with a maturity that I expected. After 5 mins he had already conceded that he wasn't going to get the ball and started setting blocks for petracca. It was a very defeatist mindset

A Melbourne player setting blocks and not just sulking. 
Would never happen in years gone by.  
This is a positive in my mind.  

[picket fence 16,992]

4 hours ago, CYB said:

I think I highlighted in both my previous posts that I think Oliver is a gun. I am under no illusion that he is an inside and contested beast. However I also don't think he is the absolute superstar that you make him out to be. 

Our team has constantly come under fire for ball use and forward 50 connection. Granted that is not his role per se, but if Merrett or Josh Kelly or Whitfield is getable, then i'd have a long hard look at it. Do i want to get rid of Oliver? Not for a second. But who else on our list has enough currency to get any one of those players onto our list? 

What is the difference between a "Gun" and a "Superstar"??

[picket fence 16,992]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

So they should be too, pretty much running the place atm.

In Fact if it wasn't for Choco and Usebee we might be 1 and 2 !!

[Pates 9,649]

33 minutes ago, deanox said:

Exactly.

In fact if he kicked 2 or 3 goals we'd actually have the media carrying on about how dangerous he is and how he can't be shut down etc.

And to be honest, I reckon he kicks 2 of those most weeks.

Sadly I disagree with that, his goal kicking has been very suspect from day one. He’s not the only gun midfielder who does that, Dangermouse is another example of a player who fluffs a lot of set shots on goal. 

What I didn’t like about his game wasn’t that he got tagged out of the middle, or that he missed those relatively easy shots for goal, it’s that every time he made a blue, got beaten, or missed a goal he had a smug smile on his face. I love Clarry, so don’t think I’m a basher, but it’s a common trait of his to try to smile it off. 

His attitude was very poor until he got off the leash in the final quarter. 

[PaulRB 6,328]

29 minutes ago, picket fence said:

What is the difference between a "Gun" and a "Superstar"??

Clarry is a gun who’ll be a superstar when he can handle a hard tag.

[picket fence 16,992]

1 hour ago, Pates said:

Sadly I disagree with that, his goal kicking has been very suspect from day one. He’s not the only gun midfielder who does that, Dangermouse is another example of a player who fluffs a lot of set shots on goal. 

What I didn’t like about his game wasn’t that he got tagged out of the middle, or that he missed those relatively easy shots for goal, it’s that every time he made a blue, got beaten, or missed a goal he had a smug smile on his face. I love Clarry, so don’t think I’m a basher, but it’s a common trait of his to try to smile it off. 

His attitude was very poor until he got off the leash in the final quarter. 

Gee interesting Observations, The smugness may well be to, in fact bellies the fact that he is hurting and doesn't want to show weakness! I can also relate to this in my poor Footy and Cricket career that if hit or down ... Always smile so that no matter how hard the hurt, turn the other cheek! But Friggen Vow to get even!! I reckon that may well be Clarries Modus Operendi!  Dont be misled I reckon this guy is as tough as they come!!

Edited April 6, 2021 by picket fence

[titan_uranus 24,963]

3 hours ago, Jaded said:

How is that defeatist? It’s the team thing to do. He put a block so his teammate can have a clear run at the ball while he was being heavily tagged?

I thought that except for losing his cool once, he took it on the chin and actually played really well up forward, except for his goal conversion. If he kicks 3 goals is anyone even talking about his game?

Yep, agree.

I thought that Oliver himself, and the others around him, responded to the tag reasonably well. de Boer is good and it wasn't easy to shake him but I at least saw blocks being laid, Oliver trying to help his teammates, and that random thing we did at the start of the second where Oliver started away from the circle but in the square. 

[Dr.D 1,771]

3 hours ago, Jaded said:

How is that defeatist? It’s the team thing to do. He put a block so his teammate can have a clear run at the ball while he was being heavily tagged?

I thought that except for losing his cool once, he took it on the chin and actually played really well up forward, except for his goal conversion. If he kicks 3 goals is anyone even talking about his game?

It's defeatist because setting blocks etc. is plan B, not plan A! Plan A is attack the game, hunt the football. He basically was like 'ok, I'm not getting the football today, I'm going to block for petracca'. Yes, its the team thing, but Oliver is also our best clearance player! What would DeBoer be thinking when Oliver started doing this? Fantastic, my job is done and I didn't even have to work for it. 

That's why it was defeatist. It's like Buddy Franklin having Harris Andrews on him and him deciding 'meh, I'm not gonna be dangerous today boys, I'll be the decoy lead to the pocket'.

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Dr.D

[Willmoy1947 4,070]

Half fit Vandenberg would solve the problem, as to could the rest of the  Mid brigade.

[Stein9193 129]

4 hours ago, Dr.D said:

he didn't handle the tag with a maturity that I expected. After 5 mins he had already conceded that he wasn't going to get the ball and started setting blocks for petracca. It was a very defeatist mindset

Come on mate

[Pates 9,649]

58 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

It's defeatist because setting blocks etc. is plan B, not plan A! Plan A is attack the game, hunt the football. He basically was like 'ok, I'm not getting the football today, I'm going to block for petracca'. Yes, its the team thing, but Oliver is also our best clearance player! What would DeBoer be thinking when Oliver started doing this? Fantastic, my job is done and I didn't even have to work for it. 

That's why it was defeatist. It's like Buddy Franklin having Harris Andrews on him and him deciding 'meh, I'm not gonna be dangerous today boys, I'll be the decoy lead to the pocket'.
 

I don’t know if defeatist is the fair way of describing it. Deboer did a very good job on forcing him out of the contest, I think Oliver and the coaches wanted him to try to shake the tag but sometimes the tagger is beating you, that has happened to some of the best the game has ever seen. 

He moved into positions to allow his teammates the best opportunity to get the clearance, that’s not defeatist, that’s team footy. I didn’t feel like he had the best attitude but the best way to respond to it will be to get back to his best against the cats. It won’t be easy as I’m sure they’ll have someone wear him like a glove. 

[Turner 1,505]

On 4/6/2021 at 9:46 AM, CYB said:

What would you all say if Oliver leaving meant we were able to acquire the services of Zac Merrett? It is no secret that:

1. Right now, we lack silk and speed on the outside;
2. We are tight on salary cap and hence would have to trade out for this move to be possible
3. Zac is not happy at Bomberland and could be convinced to leave if the price and destination were right.

Dont get me wrong - i rate Oliver highly but have always said that inside mids are a dime a dozen. I just dont think we have any other player (aside from Trac) who would get us what we need to secure Zac. 

conceptually i agree with u but not on a personel basis, improving the ratio of hunters to distributors in our midfield would benefit the side but i'd struggle to throw any of them out of the club i like them all. even harmsey who cops the brunt of the heat i'd feel bad for as a childhood dees fan, and viney obviously as the father-son, too wholesome for me to dismiss either of those boys. 

On 4/6/2021 at 8:21 PM, Gorgoroth said:

Wouldn’t be surprised if the Irish boy doesn’t play that they use Guthrie who loves to niggle and will work Oliver over the other way.

"the irish boy" happens to be a member of their leadership group and played in a grand finalist side so lets not pretend he's fresh of the plane and we've never heard of his existence before come on now. and fair fks to him too he's done a bloody good job round 2 and backed it up on titch as well

[chookrat 4,247]

On 3/31/2021 at 7:26 AM, Kent said:

how do we find 1miilion in cap that the question There are going to be a few victims I think.

 

Because we weren't offering up to $1 million per season for players like Brad Hill and Jack Martin when we desperately needed wingers. I reckon the club has made sure it has enough to retain players such as Oliver, Petracca and Salem on contracts which are fair, demonstrate the value we place on them and don't compromise our future list position.

[chookrat 4,247]

33 minutes ago, Turner said:

conceptually i agree with u but not on a personel basis, improving the ratio of hunters to distributors in our midfield would benefit the side but i'd struggle to throw any of them out of the club i like them all. even harmsey who cops the brunt of the heat i'd feel bad for as a childhood dees fan, and viney obviously as the father-son, too wholesome for me to dismiss either of those boys. 

"the irish boy" happens to be a member of their leadership group and played in a grand finalist side so lets not pretend he's fresh of the plane and we've never heard of his existence before come on now. and fair fks to him too he's done a bloody good job round 2 and backed it up on titch as well

Who says we are tight on salary cap space? I find it preposterous that the club wouldn't allow enough space in our salary cap to retain the services of Oliver, Petracca and Salem. There is a reason we haven't brought in any big name players on $1 million per season and that's because the clubs footy department has backed players like Clarry and Petracca to be our own superstars.

[rjay 24,813]

On 4/6/2021 at 5:44 PM, CYB said:

I think I highlighted in both my previous posts that I think Oliver is a gun. I am under no illusion that he is an inside and contested beast. However I also don't think he is the absolute superstar that you make him out to be. 

Our team has constantly come under fire for ball use and forward 50 connection. Granted that is not his role per se, but if Merrett or Josh Kelly or Whitfield is getable, then i'd have a long hard look at it. Do i want to get rid of Oliver? Not for a second. But who else on our list has enough currency to get any one of those players onto our list? 

I wouldn't want any of those players if it meant losing Oliver...particularly Kelly who is grossly overrated.

He should have taken the cash on offer at North as he's not going to get another like that.

[Turner 1,505]

15 minutes ago, chookrat said:

Who says we are tight on salary cap space? I find it preposterous that the club wouldn't allow enough space in our salary cap to retain the services of Oliver, Petracca and Salem. There is a reason we haven't brought in any big name players on $1 million per season and that's because the clubs footy department has backed players like Clarry and Petracca to be our own superstars.

don't believe i mentioned salary cap once?

[chookrat 4,247]

5 hours ago, Turner said:

don't believe i mentioned salary cap once?

Sorry Turner, I must of accidentally responded to your post instead of one of the others that mentioned salary cap space.

[Gorgoroth 12,910]

8 hours ago, Turner said:

conceptually i agree with u but not on a personel basis, improving the ratio of hunters to distributors in our midfield would benefit the side but i'd struggle to throw any of them out of the club i like them all. even harmsey who cops the brunt of the heat i'd feel bad for as a childhood dees fan, and viney obviously as the father-son, too wholesome for me to dismiss either of those boys. 

"the irish boy" happens to be a member of their leadership group and played in a grand finalist side so lets not pretend he's fresh of the plane and we've never heard of his existence before come on now. and fair fks to him too he's done a bloody good job round 2 and backed it up on titch as well

I only wrote that cos I can’t remember his name ?

[deanox 9,894]

On 4/6/2021 at 9:41 PM, Pates said:

Sadly I disagree with that, his goal kicking has been very suspect from day one. He’s not the only gun midfielder who does that, Dangermouse is another example of a player who fluffs a lot of set shots on goal. 

You're probably right, I used the wrong words. I think he has the capability to kicks those. His field technique is not bad, but set shot looked horrendous on the weekend.

 

[loges 6,767]

33 minutes ago, deanox said:

You're probably right, I used the wrong words. I think he has the capability to kicks those. His field technique is not bad, but set shot looked horrendous on the weekend.

 

Tried to guide the shot each time instead of kicking through the ball.

[whatwhat say what 22,566]

9 hours ago, rjay said:

I wouldn't want any of those players if it meant losing Oliver...particularly Kelly who is grossly overrated.

He should have taken the cash on offer at North as he's not going to get another like that.

he sticks with gw$ he's earning $8m over the next 8 - i would expect gw$ are competitive again before north are

Edited April 7, 2021 by whatwhat say what

[rjay 24,813]

16 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

he sticks with gw$ he's earning $8m over the next 8 - i would expect gw$ are competitive again before north are

If he's getting that he's getting way overs...