2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Geelong are good. They'll finish at the top of the ladder

Not a chance in hell

3 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Nope I stand by it. We leaked last year with Jackson and Pickett. We leaked again this year. Whether it's deliberate by any individual or whether we are overplaying our hands by being too keen we make it clear for the world to see we wanted this kid. Stop kidding yourself that we didn't.

 

Don't be so sure DS it is the club. With the draft and the trade period, most stories/leaks come via the managers. They have a very cosy, back scratching relationship. I know that having worked in the field for 20 years.

It is very frustrating each year to have our picks revealed a day or two before the draft. With that said, Cal Twomey does his homework and has great sources. It is difficult sometimes to keep your preferences away from prying eyes.

Edited December 11, 20204 yr by dee-tox

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

There's no evidence required, it's clear as day.

Cal Twomey had 1 correct match in the draft after the 2 top picks in his phantom. He had no idea who was going where. But he seemed very strong on Holmes to the Dees and it was consistent across the other phantoms. Even Paul Amy had it. The word was out. Then Geelong trade in right ahead of our pick and grab him. Don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to work that one out.

The top 20 was pretty much all players who dominate in SA/WA or had produced great bottom age years in 2019 (or 2018 under 16's for Bruhn). Outside of Angwin who the Giants saw as a need and had the Duursma tick of approval it was a night for proven performers at the top of the draft. Clubs wouldn't have been lining up to grab a guy with 1 nab league game and a good trial game early, they would've tried to sneak him in as late as possible.

I don't know why I'm getting criticised for suggesting this basket case of a football club that hasn't won a premiership in a million years might not be great at their jobs?

Twomey had us taking Carroll with our first pick even though we didn't even take him with our third, but yeah he knew exactly what was going on in the MFC recruiting department.

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

I don't know why I'm getting criticised for suggesting this basket case of a football club that hasn't won a premiership in a million years might not be great at their jobs?

I think you have a point. I don't think you need evidence at all to express your opinion. My initial reaction was that Geelong had known we were highly likely to take him.

4 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Cal Twomey had 1 correct match in the draft after the 2 top picks in his phantom. He had no idea who was going where. But he seemed very strong on Holmes to the Dees and it was consistent across the other phantoms.

You don't see the contradiction?

So Twomey 'had no idea who was going where', but you say that we were definitely into Holmes because Twomey 'seemed very strong' that we were interested?

Also, this is what Twomey actually side in his phantom draft: "The Dees have been linked to Holmes for his running power and he would get a look under certain scenarios." That, according to you, 'seemed very strong'.

We wanted him so desperately that he 'would get a look under certain scenarios'.

 

Effectively you don't know. Nor do I. But I'm not claiming to either. And if you are, then you should provide at least half decent evidence. Especially since it's probably wrong. Given that several of the picks after ours were pacy forwards (like Holmes), whilst we prioritised high IQ players with elite skills (unlike Holmes) it's probably a more likely scenario that Geelong was trying to get in before they likes of GWS, Adelaide, St Kilda, Freo and Hawthorn, rather than ahead of us.

Edited December 11, 20204 yr by Axis of Bob

11 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Nope I stand by it. We leaked last year with Jackson and Pickett. We leaked again this year. Whether it's deliberate by any individual or whether we are overplaying our hands by being too keen we make it clear for the world to see we wanted this kid. Stop kidding yourself that we didn't.

Geelong are good. They'll finish at the top of the ladder. Almost worst case scenario is they play finals given their home ground advantage. Whether they hand over pick 10 or pick 18 next year they won't be too worried.

Melbourne are every chance to finish in the bottom 6, hopefully we don't, but it's a possibility. That makes our future first far more of a risk and much more valuable. The Cats also knew exactly who they were getting. We went the early trade and were left with a fairly uninspiring collection of talent. 

DS I don't care whether you or any other poster provide evidence of your claims re Holmes perhaps in the wash up you should also consider these matters that in your opinion "This basket case of a Club who hasn't won a flag for a million years" did around the draft preceding and up yo the night.

1. Due to some Very smart pick swapping Luke McCrae was only missed by Cwood ahead of us taking him snd he had been in discussions as the style of mid we were after But was thought to be more of a chance to go earlier.

2. For whatever reason/s it was reported that Jack Carroll would be our first selection of pick no 18. (Was I fact not taken till about in the 40's not by us even at 34)  How do you explain  we didn't take him? Fake news or leaking??? 3

3. Geelong yes did steal Holmes but I rather subscribe also to the theory we may have tried to divert our interest in FRASER ROSMAN with our third pick, who while the most speculative pick in the first 35 (Holmes was also relatively speculative for that matter) We shall see over the next 5:6 years who is the winner here!

4.we had been linked to JAKE BOWEY more for our third pick mainly for outside run and as a winger/forward I would say but we also went for a similar Smaller Type if not better rated snd who has a footy IQ "through the roof" in BAILEY LAURIE. Many would have thought That Carroll might be taken here or even at No 34!!.Not to be.

5. So after all your Hoo Ha  and criticism I consider we did a brilliant cover up job to get the two best smalls for elite skill and disposal ( Jason Taylor made no bones we were looking for  this type of player).
 

6. Lastly we swooped on Rosman when Carroll was still alive. Mission accomplished !!!

7. Our choices like all other draft selections are subjective And now the next years will see whether Carroll Or Holmes Shape up or our Outside smalls ( which  no one can argue against on a needs Basis) and the X factor of a 194cm winger/forward are  heroes  famously In the Red and Blue and premiership stars to boot, ( we hope).

8. I am thrilled with our selections that's why I don't give a rats About your  

Over the top assertion  of  a half century of Mismanagement because we needed theses smart elite smalls to gry badly needed skill and movement Into a very 
much work in progress forward line.

9. Stop and think of the options now

TALLS  Ben Brown Weid Tommy Mac Jacko Mitch Brown and Rosman!

MEDIUMS Trac Fritta Melky Gus Clarry Harmes Sparrow 

SMALLS  Kossie Bedford ANB AVB Chandler/Neitshke Spargo  Viney and Laurie and Bowery!!

10. In summary a Basket  Case that has Mark Williams Drooling over his job ahead and former Dee YZE heroe of the 90's and early 2000"s returning plus elite fitness and performance staff is a half a GLASS FULL and not the empty basket case you Described. 
 

 

On 12/9/2020 at 9:13 PM, DeeSpencer said:

Someone needs to get fired for leaking the Holmes pick.

Unless it was Mahoney and then he needs to be sued.

Bad clubs leak. Good clubs don’t. That’s pretty much it.

This shambles of a club can’t keep making unforced errors.

We picked Bowey ahead of Laurie so we rated him ahead of Laurie.

Therefore, ultimately the crux of your "shambles of a club" analysis relies on the idea that MFC rated Holmes higher than Laurie who Twomey, Balmer and Draft Central all had going to GWS at 18 well before our picks.  Very keen to see your evidence of this if someone is going to get fired or sued off the back of it?

On 12/10/2020 at 12:12 PM, Jaded said:

Any recruiter who picked Oliver deserves a lot of credit. There was a lot of shock and rage when that selection happened and well, aren't we all glad we didn't end up with the highly touted Parish (who is an OK player but is no Oliver)

 

No me was very happy we did not go for parish, a skinny  side mid,  parish is a nothing type player list filler 

12 hours ago, BAMF said:

I think you have a point. I don't think you need evidence at all to express your opinion. My initial reaction was that Geelong had known we were highly likely to take him.

we also had to know richmonds pick was on the table and clubs would be coming for it so we woulda had an idea if a player we really liked was still on the board that every club had the chance to jump in front of us

so What was wrong with Carrol?

Was in our possible picks for a long time

12 minutes ago, Kent said:

so What was wrong with Carrol?

Was in our possible picks for a long time

Reckon he's scared of the dark. 

13 hours ago, Kent said:

so What was wrong with Carrol?

Was in our possible picks for a long time

Obviously not by the people that matter in the club.  Unless you have a top 5 pick, its mostly speculation and 2020 being the year it has with little footy in many states, recruiters would be working off their 2019 knowledge and character of players.

On 12/12/2020 at 10:19 AM, don't make me angry said:

No me was very happy we did not go for parish, a skinny  side mid,  parish is a nothing type player list filler 

Parish is a good footballer, was always going to be. It's wrong to call him list filler.

He was the safe pick...

He's just not the quality of Oliver and I'm happy we took the gamble with him.

I stumbled upon and watched the GWS draft night video. Some observations -

- Clubs didn't enter selections via computer, they rang them through

- GWS didn't rate Cox or Perkins in their group of players they targeted. They must have rated Reid. They were happy to get Bruhn. (could sense some dislike towards the Bombers)

- Chapman was on their list but Freo took him. They then took Stone who they rated. 

- They were going to select Laurie with pick 24. When we picked him they did a trade with Collingwood for their future 1st pick 

 

 

https://www.afl.com.au/news/533681/bids-bluffs-and-frantic-calls-inside-2020-s-first-round-draft-frenzy

An interesting article about how the first round panned out behind the scenes with numerous deals in the works had stars aligned differently.

In relation to the dees, we had an offer from the crows involving our 18 and 28 for their 22 and 23, leaving us with 19, 22, 23. However the article states the crows were intent on using that pick for Laurie.

No other whispers in terms of potential deals we were involved in however it did mention the Giants interest in both Bowey and Laurie for their pick immediately following us, which then made them pull the trigger on trading out that pick to the pies for their future first. 

Also mentioned that if the tigers had of kept their pick they were likely to take Laurie and West Coast also tried to get into the tigers pick for either Laurie or O'Driscoll. 

Saints also keen on Laurie and Bowey.

It's interesting how many other clubs like Laurie at our range and how the dominoes fell after Macrae was taken a pick before Richmond selected.

Without that happening, Richmond were happy to trade the pick (would have picked Laurie if they held the selection), Adelaide, GWS & West Coast liked him there too, and if Geelong don't trade for Max Holmes we probably would have missed him.

GWS apparently don't do the trade for Collingwoods '21 first rounder if one of Laurie and Bowey slip through, which tells you how highly clubs rated them. Saints had an interest in Bowey with their first rounder as well.

I think where we got trumped was with Angwin. GWS pounced ahead of our early picks, some connected to Angwin felt even he thought he was going to be a Dee.

Did read a few tid bits linking us with Angwin close to the draft. Would have been interesting to see who we would have taken between him and Rosman if he was still on the board. 

One thing I suspect we do well is follow select draft prospects in the following years and woo them over the long run. Langdon and Lever are two examples that come to mind. I wonder if there's a player in this draft we may see in red and blue a few years from now. GWS seem to be perpetually susceptible to raids and Angwin has a long list of quality midfielders ahead of him. Maybe one to keep an eye on.

10 hours ago, Nascent said:

Did read a few tid bits linking us with Angwin close to the draft. Would have been interesting to see who we would have taken between him and Rosman if he was still on the board. 

One thing I suspect we do well is follow select draft prospects in the following years and woo them over the long run. Langdon and Lever are two examples that come to mind. I wonder if there's a player in this draft we may see in red and blue a few years from now. GWS seem to be perpetually susceptible to raids and Angwin has a long list of quality midfielders ahead of him. Maybe one to keep an eye 

 

 

 

Looks like our short list of players for our first 2 picks and happy to take any two of 

Bowey, Laurie, McCrae, Rosman, Angwin, Holmes, 

For our 3rd pick we were hopeful one of 

Rosman, Angwin, Holmes or Caroll 

I believe we were allways going to take at least one of Bowey or Laurie with either mcCrae, Angwin or Holmes 

Our draft list might of looked like 

Bowey

Laurie 

Rosman

McCrae

Angwin

Holmes

Carrol 

It may of also been 

Angwin 

McCrae

Holmes 

Bowey

Laurie

Rosman 

Carrol

 

 

1 hour ago, Paulo said:

Looks like our short list of players for our first 2 picks and happy to take any two of 

Bowey, Laurie, McCrae, Rosman, Angwin, Holmes, 

For our 3rd pick we were hopeful one of 

Rosman, Angwin, Holmes or Caroll 

I believe we were allways going to take at least one of Bowey or Laurie with either mcCrae, Angwin or Holmes 

Our draft list might of looked like 

Bowey

Laurie 

Rosman

McCrae

Angwin

Holmes

Carrol 

It may of also been 

Angwin 

McCrae

Holmes 

Bowey

Laurie

Rosman 

Carrol

 

 

Paulo - I think your second list is pretty much spot on, with Holmes out, and a couple of others at the top who the club were prepared to trade up for if they could.