1 hour ago, Flower Magic said:

Having just watched the Dogs make the Cats look third rate in the first quarter of tonight's game, I'm thinking maybe we weren't as bad as everyone thinks last week. Hmmm, might put a few lazy $$ on the canines for the flag, but then again, maybe not. They are certainly playing great footy at the moment.

Oops, think I went a bit early ...

Just now, A F said:

I'm always late, but I work for myself.

Fritsch is living amongst his team mates and manages to be late. I know no further details, but given the club dropped him, I'm betting there were no extenuating circumstances. It's [censored] unacceptable. You are half way to bloody training.

And it's about accountability, so yes, work place culture does fall apart with no accountability.

Fair enough mate. Like you i just want to win now and in the long run. And if this changes his attitude of him and others on and off the field, ill concede it was a good decision.

8 minutes ago, Jjrogan said:

Fair enough mate. Like you i just want to win now and in the long run. And if this changes his attitude of him and others on and off the field, ill concede it was a good decision.

If we win or lose it will not be because Fritsch has been omitted for failing to remember he's a professional athlete allowed to travel to another state because he is there to play elite sport. 

Brown is a good in as he is worth a go can have an influence. also the  the experience of Jones and Gawn back will be a lifter for us.

Trent Rivers has good skill and is going to get better with game time he is very composed and makes good decisions.                              Don't mind Oscar he has been consistent and does his job at least he competes.         

 Maybe in to  play on Membrey. Josh Wagner he played a dozen games in 2019 and  averaged 15 possessions not bad for a fringe he will be handy.. The ins are ok l just hope that Gawn is right to play. He will lead by example and give his all.

We have the midfield  to do the damage and we have played well at Traeger park in recent times so there is that confidence that the boys will go well. Let's hope so.

 

Did Lockhart look sideways at someone?

2 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

^^^^

I don't believe the late to training thing.  I think it's more than just that perhaps attitude plus the above.

Fritsch's performances this year have been a tease and whilst he's shown potential, he hasn't really delivered what he is capable of.  He is too good a player to keep kicking these ridiculously inaccurate scores.  With the opportunities he has had, he should have kick a few bags of 4 or 5 goals by now.  Perhaps a good kick up the backside is what he actually needed.

I like the Fritta and hopefully he comes back into the side better and launches himself and the side to new levels (not sure he could actually physically come back 'bigger and better' ). 

I reckon you might have something here.

He is too talented to be out long .

I'm interested in the harmes decision. Clearly playing badly and clearly not playing the way the coach wants. 

It seems clear to nearly everyone here that he's not a half back and he's a better on baller/tagger But we also don't know exactly the roles/instructions he's been given

What's the verdict from ppl here. A bad move by the coach or should harmes lift his game and do what the team demands or is he stiff for being played out of position? 

 

 

3 hours ago, BW511 said:

Hasn’t exactly brought in 6 that will improve the side though, has he?

Really Gawn Jones and Rivers are upgrades you can debate other 3 but Even Brown might have a night out or kick a couple and our defensive structure did look a bit better at times with Omac so a bit harsh to bag all 6 changes IMO

3 hours ago, binman said:

90% worked.

I reckon if they both played together that brilliant word Smith derwayne could say when salem crossed to hunt:

Salem switch, hunt

touche

3 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I'm interested in the harmes decision. Clearly playing badly and clearly not playing the way the coach wants. 

It seems clear to nearly everyone here that he's not a half back and he's a better on baller/tagger But we also don't know exactly the roles/instructions he's been given

What's the verdict from ppl here. A bad move by the coach or should harmes lift his game and do what the team demands or is he stiff for being played out of position? 

 

 

Harmes played his best as a run with tagger, letting good players take him to the ball and beating them to it and drifting forward to score early in his career. Unfortunately he is like about 3 of our other contested mids who aren’t versatile enough to fill other roles competently and that is costing us. 

1 minute ago, Jack Russell said:

Really Gawn Jones and Rivers are upgrades you can debate other 3 but Even Brown might have a night out or kick a couple and our defensive structure did look a bit better at times with Omac so a bit harsh to bag all 6 changes IMO

Agree. These changes are not as bad a most on here think. Fritta whilst may have been late for training is always late to get to a contest. Harmes in poor form and the ins of Gawn, Jones and Rivers must help and Omac will release Lever to intercept. I just hope those on here bagging the club will eat their words when we get a win in Alice. Remember we play Ok there and Saints have not seen the ground. Plus Saints are not that good.

3 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I'm interested in the harmes decision. Clearly playing badly and clearly not playing the way the coach wants. 

It seems clear to nearly everyone here that he's not a half back and he's a better on baller/tagger But we also don't know exactly the roles/instructions he's been given

What's the verdict from ppl here. A bad move by the coach or should harmes lift his game and do what the team demands or is he stiff for being played out of position?

Incredibly stiff IMO. Wasn't much of a footballer before the midfield/tagging turnaround tbh, but seemed to have found his niche there and played some good footy that helped us win. Add all that to his poor form and us crying out for a tagger a couple of times this year and it's just another example of the stubborn coach we have. Goodwin has told Harmes he won't be playing midfield no matter what and he needs to make half back work, BUT add to that the fact he's not getting great direction from Goodwin (who wouldn't even discuss his dropping with him properly).

As it stands, he's a decent chance to request a trade end of season. That's a real 'heart and soul' type who grew up a Dees supporter, so that should paint a picture.

I think St Kilda leave King deep and push Membrey up the ground more. So presumably we've brought OMac back to stay with King as the deeper defender and let May follow Membrey up the ground. Lever then peels off the resting ruckman.

Tomlinson pushes up to the wing and has to make Hill/Jones accountable on transition by opening up as much space as he can.

I'm still not convinced by any of the arguments I've read here about why Lockhart was dropped. I don't even think he's been average/poor, I think he's been solid, and against a side with small forwards, and having had a seven day break, I just don't see the logic here.

4 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I'm interested in the harmes decision. Clearly playing badly and clearly not playing the way the coach wants. 

It seems clear to nearly everyone here that he's not a half back and he's a better on baller/tagger But we also don't know exactly the roles/instructions he's been given

What's the verdict from ppl here. A bad move by the coach or should harmes lift his game and do what the team demands or is he stiff for being played out of position? 

Can we say all three?

Predominantly I say he shouldn't be in the backline. Goodwin's got form for getting this wrong (Fritsch last year). But Harmes is talented enough to be able to influence games more than he has been.

we have gone form $2.00 to $2.15 since the team was announced .Maybe add someone from Sportsbet to the selection committee.

2 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Incredibly stiff IMO. Wasn't much of a footballer before the midfield/tagging turnaround tbh, but seemed to have found his niche there and played some good footy that helped us win. Add all that to his poor form and us crying out for a tagger a couple of times this year and it's just another example of the stubborn coach we have. Goodwin has told Harmes he won't be playing midfield no matter what and he needs to make half back work, BUT add to that the fact he's not getting great direction from Goodwin (who wouldn't even discuss his dropping with him properly).

As it stands, he's a decent chance to request a trade end of season. That's a real 'heart and soul' type who grew up a Dees supporter, so that should paint a picture.

I suspect this is from a source connected with Harmes?

If so, whilst this could all be true, it could also be the way Harmes is perceiving the situation, and the reality may not be as severe.

If it is true, I think it's an awful call from Goodwin. It's bad enough that we can't find room for him in the midfield (Sparrow's been getting minutes there this year - so it can't simply be a lack of opportunities), but IMO Harmes is far better suited to a forward role than defence.

3 hours ago, dimmy said:

It is not a footrace. If you get the ball and move it properly you can look pretty quick. NO one bar no one gets into AFL without some good leg speed.

Not necessarily dimmy.  I would think it's a foot race when it's kicked or handballed out wide to a fellow player or to his advantage into open space under pressure.   Or forward into space to your player's favoured side / or even over his head on the sling/shot break off HB for a joe-the-goose attempt.

The Saints will look to exploit this advantage as the game opens up at some point.

Aside from Rivers, i think Goody has gone for defensive / contested capability, height and experience over foot speed, skills and finish.

The tipping point for me (taking us from sluggish to turtle like vs the speedy Saints) is Jones.  I would consider him coming in for AVB but that's about it.  I don't see what purpose / role he plays in this side other than AVB's (vs the Saints) and we certainly can't afford to play both.  I would have kept Harmes in to play a part time mid / mostly forward role instead of Jones and played him back into his 2019 top 3 form.  Goody has potentially ruined a solid career (at the MFC anyway) here which is a real travesty and one of the poorest pieces of player management i've seen since he tried Fritta down back last season.

The majority of our mid field will have to play out of their skins to win this one as well as most forwards.  Two or three players go missing from both of those groups and the Saints will exercise our Demons comfortably.

Might have to win with the last kick of the night from "that's ruck craft big boy" Maxy!

33 minutes ago, Jjrogan said:

Fair enough mate. Like you i just want to win now and in the long run. And if this changes his attitude of him and others on and off the field, ill concede it was a good decision.

Yeah look it is bad luck and you could look the other way but out of the 8 and coming off a loss they obviously want to make a stand.  

1 minute ago, titan_uranus said:

I suspect this is from a source connected with Harmes?

If so, whilst this could all be true, it could also be the way Harmes is perceiving the situation, and the reality may not be as severe.

If it is true, I think it's an awful call from Goodwin. It's bad enough that we can't find room for him in the midfield (Sparrow's been getting minutes there this year - so it can't simply be a lack of opportunities), but IMO Harmes is far better suited to a forward role than defence.

For sure, could be one side of the story, but either way; the lack of communication and instruction (and this isn't the only example of it I've heard) is a bit concerning.

4 hours ago, Stevienic23 said:

How do you rock up late to training and your housemate turns up on time? Especially given they cant do all that much in 'hub-land' anyway.

 

Maybe his housemates are Wagner and O'Mac

Gawn, Rivers, Brown are good ins and Jones for Sparrow is acceptable but Wagner is a iffy decision as he doesn't have pace while Hunt and Baker didn't get picked. Oscar must be playing on King it's the only reason I can think of so May can play on Membrey who has caused us lots of problems. Baker will cause us problems if Hibberd plays like he did against Wallis. Dropping Lockhart is mind boggling. Fritsch out is the poorest timing ever how can you stuff up with finals on the line?

2 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

For sure, could be one side of the story, but either way; the lack of communication and instruction (and this isn't the only example of it I've heard) is a bit concerning.

There have been plenty of comments that the players love Goodwin and they trust him, though.

I mean, for all of Goodwin's flaws as a coach, he's generally been able to connect with the players.

I don't think he's got it right with Harmes but you can imagine Harmes saying to a mate "Goody's not listening to me" and the rumour spreads from there.

Harmes' 2020 is a fail from Goodwin either way.

11 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I'm interested in the harmes decision. Clearly playing badly and clearly not playing the way the coach wants. 

It seems clear to nearly everyone here that he's not a half back and he's a better on baller/tagger But we also don't know exactly the roles/instructions he's been given

What's the verdict from ppl here. A bad move by the coach or should harmes lift his game and do what the team demands or is he stiff for being played out of position? 

 

 

Ok, as a coaching panel you look at a player and see that he is very limited in what he excels at. In Harmes' case he was a very good tagger in the midfield but could do very little else. The coaching panel look at that and try to get some flexibility into his game by looking at playing him in defence. Unfortunately, this has not worked and his form and confidence have both suffered to the point where he needs to be dropped so he can step back and regain some confidence and form. 

If this is the case, and this is only my way of reading the situation, then it is a good call. Drop him back and give him run with/tagging roles  in the scratch games and then, if his forms turns around, slot him into the 22 on an as required basis.

Personally, I would have dropped him a few rounds ago as I do not see him ahead of Petracca, Viney, Brayshaw or Oliver in the middle and if he was to be tagging someone who was at the center bounce then we are one down on our best three in the middle.

 

 

2 hours ago, CHF said:

If the reason for  Harmes' lack of form is not being played as a tagger then it does not say much for his mental fortitude. From my observation, he has not employed his talent to the defensive requirements of his role which, to my mind are not too different to a tagging role. Does Goodwin need to tell him to tag an opposition attacking player rather than tell him he is playing in defence?

With regard to Josh Wagner, I will be interested to see how they use him. I could see him rotating to a wing or playing forward of the center and using his defensive abilities to lock the ball in. In 2018 he had solid form.

Can't understand the haters for Josh Wagner.  Hope he has a stand out game tomorrow..  

 

3 hours ago, Forest Demon said:

Can only assume Tomlinson is moving back up to the wing with the OMac selection.

Prob not. Omac to the wing don’t forget we like playing players out of position, it’s the Melbourne way. 

1 minute ago, titan_uranus said:

There have been plenty of comments that the players love Goodwin and they trust him, though.

I mean, for all of Goodwin's flaws as a coach, he's generally been able to connect with the players.

Sure, the public comments have of course said that, but the things I've heard paint a different picture.