POSTGAME: Rd 13 vs Western Bulldogs

[DemonOX 8,541]

24 minutes ago, kev martin said:

Go Dees with a bounce back against the saints.

 

Geez Kev you are more confident than me. Saints are playing real high pressure footy and based on results that’s all u need to easily beat us. 
 

They also have a coach who makes changes during a game and doesn’t stick with something that isn’t working. 
 

I don’t like our chances but I hope u r right. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by DemonOX

[Deemania since 56 6,196]

4 hours ago, A F said:

I do wonder if Fritsch getting the ball in the pockets was dummy leads, trying to create space for other forwards in the central corridor. We like most of our shots to go in that 20 to 30m range directly in front of goal. By leading to the pocket, Fritsch is creating space for others, but if our mids are stupid enough to kick it to the tougher option and Fritsch doesn't lead early enough or hard enough, he ends up being the problem too.

Could be a timing thing with the lead to space; if it is, then it certainly is effective and unexpected by the opposition in so many of our recent games. Perhaps this is even more reason to ensure the Fritta can kick 'em reliably most times from such positioning, as well. Going central to the goalsquare has, for us at any rate, been an abysmal failure time and again. The more lethal were are across the entire forward line, the better our results. Maybe, Stage 1: Fritta finds spaces; Stage 2: Fritta gets the mark; Stage 3: Fritta goals from the HFF/BP/outside the boundary line/on the run from afar ... and there is only one way to be capable of these feats -- practice, practice, practice. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Deemania since 56

[Hogan2014 390]

2 hours ago, Jaded said:

Never forget that Geelong have the biggest and best home ground advantage in the competition. They make finals on the back of their guaranteed wins at Cardinia Park, or whatever that [censored] is called these days. 

Don’t disagree with home ground advantage but they have won  many away games & finished top 4 many a time ... point here is their culture & leadership within their club vs ours us chalk & cheese 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Hogan2014

[Binmans PA 26,288]

9 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Could be a timing thing with the lead to space; if it is, then it certainly is effective and unexpected by the opposition in so many of our recent games. Perhaps this is even more reason to ensure the Fritta can kick 'em reliably most times from such positioning. Going central to the goalsquare has, for us at any rate, been an abysmal failure time and again. The more lethal were are across the entire forward line, the better our results. Maybe, Stage 1: Fritta finds spaces; Stage 2: Fritta gets the mark; Stage 3: Fritta goals from the HFF/BP/outside the boundary line/on the run from afar ... and there is only one way to be capable of these feats -- practice, practice, practice. 

We blew Collingwood away in the second quarter last week by repeatedly going to the top of the square and to the dangerous area just in front of that. Richmond have won flags doing it. Collingwood, when on song, do it too. I think the plan is workable, we just haven't had guys that have created a contest or mids that have kicked to the top of the square at the right time.

But completely agree on the practice, practice, practice mantra. It needs to become automated and feel natural.

Edited August 23, 2020 by A F

[titan_uranus 22,564]

4 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

Geez Kev you are more confident than me. Saints are playing real high pressure footy and based on results that’s all u need to easily beat us. 
 

They also have a coach who makes changes during a game and doesn’t stick with something that isn’t working. 
 

I don’t like our chances but I hope u r right. 

Not really. They prefer to keep it uncontested. It got tight late through Brisbane appearing to run out of puff and having wasted their third quarter dominance.

St Kilda rely on an open forward line and uncontested play. When it works it looks great. But they have an unhealthy and unsustainable (in the long-term) reliance on goalkicking accuracy. There's no coincidence IMO that when they're inaccurate this year they've lost (7.12 against North, 5.7 against Collingwood, 4.10 against Geelong). 

The way we play is capable of beating them but not if we're loose defensively and not if we don't capitalise on our inside 50s. 

[kev martin 9,215]

9 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

Geez Kev you are more confident than me. Saints are playing real high pressure footy and based on results that’s all u need to easily beat us. 
 

They also have a coach who makes changes during a game and doesn’t stick with something that isn’t working. 
 

I don’t like our chances but I hope u r right. 

I think we can win.

At times we play good football. 

Just need our conversions into the 50 better and to take our chances when they are there.

Alice is more of a home ground advantage then the others we have played at.

Have the saints even played there?

[DemonOX 8,541]

9 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Not really. They prefer to keep it uncontested. It got tight late through Brisbane appearing to run out of puff and having wasted their third quarter dominance.

St Kilda rely on an open forward line and uncontested play. When it works it looks great. But they have an unhealthy and unsustainable (in the long-term) reliance on goalkicking accuracy. There's no coincidence IMO that when they're inaccurate this year they've lost (7.12 against North, 5.7 against Collingwood, 4.10 against Geelong). 

The way we play is capable of beating them but not if we're loose defensively and not if we don't capitalise on our inside 50s. 

I have only watched the saints in spits and spurts and during that time their pressure has been really good.  
 

Lets hope u r right titan but continued defensive pressure from our mids for 4 quarters worries me and forward pressure also. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by DemonOX

[Pates 9,537]

8 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Not really. They prefer to keep it uncontested. It got tight late through Brisbane appearing to run out of puff and having wasted their third quarter dominance.

St Kilda rely on an open forward line and uncontested play. When it works it looks great. But they have an unhealthy and unsustainable (in the long-term) reliance on goalkicking accuracy. There's no coincidence IMO that when they're inaccurate this year they've lost (7.12 against North, 5.7 against Collingwood, 4.10 against Geelong). 

The way we play is capable of beating them but not if we're loose defensively and not if we don't capitalise on our inside 50s. 

Wow I forgot the Saints lost to North, if I needed a little helping of confidence that has given it to me! I'm not saying that we're a lock but certainly it points to being vulnerable to mental dips.

I felt like our players went in with a bad attitude against Port and also came out with a bad attitude vs the Dogs in the second half. So much of winning games at the highest level come from what's between the ears, it's up to Goodwin and Co to get them working in the right way from the first bounce next week. 

[titan_uranus 22,564]

4 minutes ago, Pates said:

Wow I forgot the Saints lost to North, if I needed a little helping of confidence that has given it to me! I'm not saying that we're a lock but certainly it points to being vulnerable to mental dips.

I felt like our players went in with a bad attitude against Port and also came out with a bad attitude vs the Dogs in the second half. So much of winning games at the highest level come from what's between the ears, it's up to Goodwin and Co to get them working in the right way from the first bounce next week. 

All year I've felt that St Kilda are a step behind the truly good sides. They play footy which IMO won't hold up in finals. It's too risky and fluky to try absorbing opposition inside 50s and relying on accuracy in front of goal to ensure you outscore your opponent.

Still, they're playing finals and we're no better than 50/50 to join them, and the way they play is a recipe for disaster for us.

I'm sure attitude is a problem for us. Whether it's a lack of confidence (self-confidence or confidence in teammates) or arrogance and bathwater drinking, I'm yet to be convinced that our players approach each week with the mindset that I'm sure Geelong, West Coast and Richmond bring weekly.

[3183 Dee 2,608]

After taking a few deep breaths from yesterday, the key to our game is defensive pressure and this starts with the forward line. If we bring the pressure in our offensive 50-70, we can start to dictate the game. 
 

Against the Pies, our forward pressure was immense, resulting in mistakes by the opposition, giving our skilled mids repeated chances with the ball. It basically grinds the opposition down and leaves us to run over them, with our quick play.

However,  if our forward defensive pressure is off, our game doesn’t work - highlighted yesterday by the Dogs being able to set up out of their D50 as they wished. This, coupled with no-one tagging Bont, was the big difference between the two sides, IMHO. It means that the miss then have to do ALL the defensive work upfield, which limits their ability to set up play.

Our forwards need to be far more accountable - Pickett, whilst still quite raw, never stops chasing. We get glimpses with Hannan and Spargo, but the rest are either too slow or spaghetti arm tacklers.

I would bring Bedford in this week, probably for Hannan and shift Viney further forward to create pressure, if Jones is not available.

[Binmans PA 26,288]

23 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

All year I've felt that St Kilda are a step behind the truly good sides. They play footy which IMO won't hold up in finals. It's too risky and fluky to try absorbing opposition inside 50s and relying on accuracy in front of goal to ensure you outscore your opponent.

Still, they're playing finals and we're no better than 50/50 to join them, and the way they play is a recipe for disaster for us.

I'm sure attitude is a problem for us. Whether it's a lack of confidence (self-confidence or confidence in teammates) or arrogance and bathwater drinking, I'm yet to be convinced that our players approach each week with the mindset that I'm sure Geelong, West Coast and Richmond bring weekly.

Absolutely no doubt about this in my mind.

We're witnessing high work rate one week and then nowhere near enough the next. 

I think we'll make finals because of our softer draw coming home, but our commitment across the entire field seems volatile. 

It's frustrating because our list is currently around about where Hawthorn's was in 2008 when it stole a flag (remember all those rushed behinds under no pressure?). Hawthorn didn't do anything for a couple of years after that, but it shows you it's possible to do it this early in the evolution of the list. Richmond took a lot longer, but I reckon once it clicks for our guys we'll be very difficult to beat.

[Binmans PA 26,288]

26 minutes ago, 3183 Dee said:

After taking a few deep breaths from yesterday, the key to our game is defensive pressure and this starts with the forward line. If we bring the pressure in our offensive 50-70, we can start to dictate the game. 
 

Against the Pies, our forward pressure was immense, resulting in mistakes by the opposition, giving our skilled mids repeated chances with the ball. It basically grinds the opposition down and leaves us to run over them, with our quick play.

However,  if our forward defensive pressure is off, our game doesn’t work - highlighted yesterday by the Dogs being able to set up out of their D50 as they wished. This, coupled with no-one tagging Bont, was the big difference between the two sides, IMHO. It means that the miss then have to do ALL the defensive work upfield, which limits their ability to set up play.

Our forwards need to be far more accountable - Pickett, whilst still quite raw, never stops chasing. We get glimpses with Hannan and Spargo, but the rest are either too slow or spaghetti arm tacklers.

I would bring Bedford in this week, probably for Hannan and shift Viney further forward to create pressure, if Jones is not available.

I'd play Bedford, Harmes and Jones all forward of centre next week. We need ferocious tackling as you say. Stop St Kilda's run and gun off half back and convert our own opportunities and I think we win.

[kev martin 9,215]

@Damo

Preuss did at least one long slap. Didn't work, the same as some of his finesse work.

The synergy didn't seem to be there with the midfielders. 

If Gawn is ready to go will they use both of them?

I thought Preuss's around the ground work was good.

 

Is Butler the St.Kilda barometer, play hard on him, do we stop them?

Will we see the Jones brothers wrestling it out? Probably not with Nats quad.

Don't let Kenty kick easy ones and get his confidence going.

 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

2 hours ago, DemonOX said:

And to top it off after another GREAT season we give our first pic to North. Happy times ???

Meh.  In a highly compromised draft, it means little.  

We got Kozzie at Pick 13, and even if North end up with a Pick around the 6-10 mark to begin with, they could easily push back to our pick anyway.

People are treating that pick swap as if we lost a first rounder.  We didn't.  We just used it a year early.  It really isn't that bad.

[dazzledavey36 48,952]

*Wrong Thread

Edited August 23, 2020 by dazzledavey36

[whatwhat say what 19,228]

2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Maybe this bloke could come in?

https://mobile.twitter.com/melbournefc/status/1297452413125660674/photo/1

he looks good

(don't want him)

[kev martin 9,215]

10 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Meh.  In a highly compromised draft, it means little.  

We got Kozzie at Pick 13, and even if North end up with a Pick around the 6-10 mark to begin with, they could easily push back to our pick anyway.

People are treating that pick swap as if we lost a first rounder.  We didn't.  We just used it a year early.  It really isn't that bad.

The North pick has nothing to do with our squad. Deal is done and it is now all about North. One or eighteen makes no difference to us in the present time.

It would be good to see a stronger North in the comp.

Interstates get so much more advantage with, home fields, academy players and higher caps (living expenses and development). 

 

 

[loges 6,132]

1 hour ago, A F said:

That thinking would have seen us finishing outside of the 8 in 2018 though.

Never lost hope in 2018, don't have that feeling this year unfortunately.

[Pates 9,537]

5 minutes ago, loges said:

Never lost hope in 2018, don't have that feeling this year unfortunately.

This year is a bit of a different feeling as well for me, more so because I really think where we are at we should be making finals fairly comfortably but we seem destined to have to keep fighting for relevance in the finals conversation.

We haven't beaten anyone of note this year, the Saints (maybe GWS) will be our last chance to beat someone of finals quality opposition. While you could maybe argue the same in 2018, the difference was that we beat two top 8 teams right at the end and everyone knew that we botched the two losses against the cats. 

I can picture us making the 8 in the same way Essendon made it in 2019, just making up the numbers.

[Binmans PA 26,288]

48 minutes ago, loges said:

Never lost hope in 2018, don't have that feeling this year unfortunately.

Fair enough. Let's wait and see what happens.

[Megatron 834]

22 minutes ago, A F said:

Fair enough. Let's wait and see what happens.

2020 could mirror 2018 in some ways. Remember it took us until round 22 in 2018 until we beat a team in the 8. Then we went on a roll. Let’s hope it starts against St Kilda

[Lord Nev 13,511]

Just sick of us having to have a horrible game, cop a whack and then be pressured into reaching the minimum level again.

To me, it's symptomatic of the example the coach sets with selection.

 

[Damo 3,004]

4 hours ago, kev martin said:

@Damo

Preuss did at least one long slap. Didn't work, the same as some of his finesse work.

Id still like him to chaos slap the ball. It cant be worse than him tapping it straight to saints midfield.

The synergy didn't seem to be there with the midfielders. Our mids are better but if they continually have to go back and forward  to save us and kick goals, as our small backs and forwards dont spread, dont mark, dont chase with intent, cant kick accurately, what are you gunna do?

If Gawn is ready to go will they use both of them? Yes Play Max in the square for half the match. Drop Tom

I thought Preuss's around the ground work was good. Id like to give him a couple of weeks. better than I thought.

 

Is Butler the St.Kilda barometer, play hard on him, do we stop them? Im told we dont tag anymore. Must be the only team who doesnt. Loving the Langdon, let him run free. I would love to see Harmes tag but who?

Will we see the Jones brothers wrestling it out? Probably not with Nats quad. Zac is twice the player now.

Don't let Kenty kick easy ones and get his confidence going. Kenty is having a good season but he still would be about 25 on our best. i hope he plays.

 

 

[jnrmac 19,128]

Its the Melbourne way that we will get poleaxed by the Saints - losing our hard won percentage in the process -  and then have to make a mad dash to make finals probably just falling short. All due to our own incompetence and laziness.

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

18 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Its the Melbourne way that we will get poleaxed by the Saints - losing our hard won percentage in the process -  and then have to make a mad dash to make finals probably just falling short. All due to our own incompetence and laziness.

Would you have it any other way?