POSTGAME: Rd 13 vs Western Bulldogs

[Demon Dynasty 17,166]

21 minutes ago, Deeoldfart said:

Our small forwards killed us.  Where were the goals?  Where was the pressure from recent weeks?  I'd be resting Pickett and giving Bedford a run.

While i agree Kozzie must be rested Im not sure Bedford is the answer at this point.

Whatever happens we need to get Viney to play a mostly forward role and Gus to play most of his time in the middle.

Time to bring in Bennell (again) for Vanders me thinks and try and get us a target for the mids on the outside and some run.

Rivers comes in for Harmes.  The only way i'd be playing Harmes is for a specific lock down role on a damaging mid which he should've been doing today.

[Buzzy 992]

Fast Saints will murder us on the spread next week, we can almost kiss finals goodbye.

[Deesprate 1,324]

The two biggest thing holding this club back are coaching and skills. Sitting on the outer wing today the Dogs repeatedly ran the ball down the wing unchecked. They kicked with skill and precision to the red zone around the forward line. Not to the pocket. At no time did our useless coach and the loser for St Kilda try to stop it. Time and again. When we got the ball we repeatedly butchered it and kicked sideway; backwards and constantly to the pocket. I will continue to buy a membership because I love the club but there has to be significant change. Goodwin; Richo and recruiting poorly skilled players can’t continue. We are not Richmond we cannot blindly continue with the current format and coach or we have years of mediocrity ahead

[Diamond_Jim 12,773]

5 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Was a huge game changer today and Im sure Im not alone in thinking we wont play finals.

Could well play finals and even win one but this team at its best is 7-12 ranking

Strangely enough I think the short breaks may help us as it slows down the game

[Graeme Yeats' Mullet 6,794]

Simply outclassed by a faster, more skilful better drilled team in the clearance and on the spread

When we did get the upper hand, we simply butchered the ball

The same deficiencies that have hamstrung us forever

[Sir Why You Little 37,458]

2 minutes ago, Trisul said:

Bont was the second highest rated player on the ground, had 742 metres gained (highest on the ground by 150 metres) and 2 direct goal assists (also highest on the ground).

It was so obvious what should have been done. 
negate your opponent. 
But no. Not even during the game

[Tired and Emotional Dee 18]

20 minutes ago, demonique said:

I’m a little concerned about Jake Lever. 
A couple of times he has  dodged the hard ball the past couple of matches . Today it appeared he ducked out of an on coming ball hotly pursued by 3 or 4 players , he was closer and had time to gather but he retreated mmm ?

I know the incident you are talking about. However, I think you’ll find the ball bounced at right angles and Lever changed directions to intercept it.

[Elegt 872]

2 minutes ago, Deesprate said:

The two biggest thing holding this club back are coaching and skills. Sitting on the outer wing today the Dogs repeatedly ran the ball down the wing unchecked. They kicked with skill and precision to the red zone around the forward line. Not to the pocket. At no time did our useless coach and the loser for St Kilda try to stop it. Time and again. When we got the ball we repeatedly butchered it and kicked sideway; backwards and constantly to the pocket. I will continue to buy a membership because I love the club but there has to be significant change. Goodwin; Richo and recruiting poorly skilled players can’t continue. We are not Richmond we cannot blindly continue with the current format and coach or we have years of mediocrity ahead

we kicked it backwards quite regularly, especially early in the game which concerned me

[The heart beats true 18,201]

26 minutes ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

People thinking Goodwin’s coaching cost us really are clutching at straws or have agenda’s..... We unsurprisingly were caught short for outside run which a lot of us had already said was a concern.

Sorry, whose responsible for our lack of outside run, and one dimensional list? The coach, whose had 4 years to get the list that suits his game plan?

[jnrmac 20,377]

4 minutes ago, Trisul said:

Bont was the second highest rated player on the ground, had 742 metres gained (highest on the ground by 150 metres) and 2 direct goal assists (also highest on the ground).

Some people watch a different game. 

It was blindingly obvious today as it was last Sunday that we needed to tag Bont. 

 

[Redleg 42,177]

9 minutes ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

People thinking Goodwin’s coaching cost us really are clutching at straws or have agenda’s. That was a loss based on inadequate defensive run and not taking chances when they present. The same side did both well last week. We missed 4-6 high % goals and they made there’s. We played like an improving mid tier side who struggled with a higher level of pressure. We unsurprisingly were caught short for outside run which a lot of us had already said was a concern. Just need to reset and get the changes right next week otherwise outside run will catch us out once again.

Lost in it all will be Steven May’s game which you will struggle to find a more complete defensive game by an individual.

You don’t have to have an agenda to see that Goodwin was completely out coached today. However despite that, if we kicked properly, both at goal and in play, we would have won. We gave them most of their goals, 5 out of 6 in the 3rd were turnovers.. 
Agree May was great. Pity none of our mids were.  
But still Goody coached poorly as all the commentators noted. I know Jones was a late out but we needed pace and could have brought in Hunt or even Bedford. I would just once like to see Goodwin do something in a game that changes it.

[leave it to deever 17,618]

Have been appreciative of Tmac's form the last 2 games but its just not enough. I know hes only one of 22 but its a clear signal to the others if we drop him.

Let Harmes, Hannan and melksham have some time off as well and put everyone on notice.

Play the coachimg staff for all I care but please dont reward lack of effort anymore.

 

[demonique 314]

3 minutes ago, Tired and Emotional Dee said:

I know the incident you are talking about. However, I think you’ll find the ball bounced at right angles and Lever changed directions to intercept it.

Ok , but I’ll be watching closer next time .

[DeeZee 7,496]

We still lack runners and only have one real one in Langdon

[Adam The God 30,743]

54 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Utter disgraceful.

Melksham, Harmes, McDonald,  Hibbo, Fritsch, 

All disgraced the jumper.

Goodwin shown up for a poor coach he is. Plan B? Where was that Goody? [censored] clueless as usual.

Hang on, hang on, mate.

Hibbo turned the ball over a bit and Harmes didn't get much of it. Agree Melksham, Fritsch and McDonald were poor, but the midfield group and the forward group didn't work hard enough. Nothing to do with Plan B. Execute on the game plan. We didn't. 

[DeeSpencer 26,682]

4 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

We don't get much drive off the backline. Salem can give you an accurate kick but he doesn't damage unless he finds a player in space.

May has a big kick which occasionally befits the rebound.

Tomlinson needs to do more if CHB is his position.

I agree. We get little from Lockhart, Harmes, Tomlinson and Lever and then Hibberd starts to do far too much.

Rivers is the most logical addition in Harmes' spot.

But at some stage before the end of the year I'd look at Smith for Tomlinson and Chandler for Lockhart as well. Our backline has done a decent job as a unit for most of the year but we can't sit back and rest on them just being good.

If we find some quality at half back we can actually unleash Salem in to the midfield as well.

[Redleg 42,177]

4 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Some people watch a different game. 

It was blindingly obvious today as it was last Sunday that we needed to tag Bont. 

 

Not to one bloke.

[jnrmac 20,377]

21 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Agree, red.

I don't know why supporters are so focused on the tagging aspect.  It had very little to do with the outcome of the game.  I'm happy for Goodwin to back in our mids against theirs, but when we don't turn up like we did today, then we'll get smashed no matter if we tried to tag all of them or none of them.

How is it that "we don't turn up"?

And who's fault is it?

And when we "don't turn up" who has the job of turning that around mid-game?

 

[Damo 3,466]

The dogs have a full list. They still swap players in and out of the side. Goody is very hesitant to make changes because we dont have a long injury list. this shows he thinks our team is finely balanced and a little bit out of luck. And now he has Richo as a yes man. he isnt ready to tough it out without help. Goody is out of his league and push comes to shove too many on this site want him to stay next year.

[Adam The God 30,743]

55 minutes ago, olisik said:

Goodwin that’s why, he always has the team try win shoot outs against the wind opposed to turning it into a bog for a nil nil draw. Absolutely rubbish coaching.

Look who's back. 

To level this at coaching is typically shallow analysis from you, but I'd expect nothing more.

[dee-tox 4,835]

Game plan fell apart after a couple of Beveridge tweaks.

Three horrible missed opportunities in third quarter could have had then within two goals at three-quarter time.

Midfield was soundly beaten.

Hibberd was thrashed by Wallis.

Should have had a hard tag on Bontempelli. If there was then that guy needs to take a good hard look at himself!

 

[grazman 7,539]

39 minutes ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

People thinking Goodwin’s coaching cost us really are clutching at straws or have agenda’s. That was a loss based on inadequate defensive run and not taking chances when they present. The same side did both well last week. We missed 4-6 high % goals and they made there’s. We played like an improving mid tier side who struggled with a higher level of pressure. We unsurprisingly were caught short for outside run which a lot of us had already said was a concern. Just need to reset and get the changes right next week otherwise outside run will catch us out once again.

Lost in it all will be Steven May’s game which you will struggle to find a more complete defensive game by an individual.

Sorry I can't agree,  it was patently obvious at half-time that Bevo would try something different as Dunkley in the ruck wasn't working (he said so himself) and yet we actually had no response to any of the changes.    I think sometimes supporters see what they want to see to,  but from where I sit I  we're behind the Bulldogs and the Saints, I think at this pace Carlton and Gold Coast will overtake us next year as well.  There's a lot not working and I think it emanates from the coaches box. 

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by grazman

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 minute ago, jnrmac said:

How is it that "we don't turn up"?

And who's fault is it?

And when we "don't turn up" who has the job of turning that around mid-game?

 

All fair questions, jnr.  I don't really have an answer to that.  I think it's clear that our mids didn't turn up today and they got belted because of it.

I think the commentators touched on it during the game, but I think once the pressure ramped up we reverted to a style of play that we have been known for - getting sucked into the contest, taking the wrong option or even trying silly handpasses and chip kicks that rarely come off.  Once the ball is turned over we don't get back hard enough, and against the Dogs who hit more targets than most, we get cut open on the rebound.

As for whose fault it is - it's on both.  The coaches didn't have something in place for the rebound footy that occurred, however, I like that he backed the mids in.  That should have given them confidence.  Instead they wilted when the pressure lifted.

[DeeSpencer 26,682]

It's really hard to arrest changes mid quarter guys.

Preuss tapping the ball didn't work. So they switched to Preuss just dropping it dead. Remember Preuss and our mids haven't trained together since February. 

Brayshaw went loose back at some stage in the 3rd.

Tom McDonald did the bulk of the ruck in the 4th to add more mobility and another marking target forward in Preuss.

We have such a limited playing group it's really hard to make too many changes. Spinning the magnets is a bad idea when the magnets aren't good at moving and lack of team work was the problem to begin with.

[Demon Dynasty 17,166]

32 minutes ago, Greendale said:

Don't want to be too critical as there were many worse players, but Lever didn't do much for me. Had multiple dropped marks where he had clean hands on the ball, one of which cost us a goal. As an intercepting defender it's his job to take these marks and I feel he crumbles under physical pressure.

Reads it ok as an intercept defender but simply isn't damaging enough with ball in hand and mostly takes the path of least risk.  His short to medium kicking game is pretty ordinary.

He will either quickly cheap kick it backwards and transfer the pressure or kick long down the line.  While there is nothing wrong with the latter option he does tend to take his sweet azz time deciding to do so if there's no immediate lay off out the back. 

Rarely attempts to switch and understandable given his kicking limitations.  This poses a real problem for our defence and game off HB in general IMHO as it ....

1.  Makes us too predictable when he gets the ball which is quite a bit; 

2.  Means we are unable to take advantage of the switch even if it's on;  and

3.  We are not testing / pushing the opponent often enough covering our switch meaning they conserve more energy even when we are in possession and are able to set up for the predictable down the line (most of the time).

Edited August 22, 2020 by Rusty Nails