As an unapologetic VDB fan I’m loving the Vanders critics rolling out their diminishing opinions on him. Feel no need to defend him as I trust Vanders will do it himself, on the field, this week or next... capable of far more the just “bash and crash”, but you can’t tell some people some things they’ll just have see it for themselves...

Go Demons. 

1 hour ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

One thing with VDB is that he's bloody tough. For years we've lacked players who make the opposition look over their shoulders when they hear his footsteps.

VDB is tough as they come and won't shirk an issue it is good to have him out there injury free for a change and he can only improve with more game time.

You need players who are hard at it  that can make a  team mate have confidence that he has your back.

 

Just now, nosoupforme said:

VDB is tough as they come and won't shirk an issue it is good to have him out there injury free for a change and he can only improve with more game time.

You need players who are hard at it  that can make a  team mate have confidence that he has your back.

Yes, his toughness is a good thing.

But don't we get the same sort of attitude from Viney, Gawn, Oliver, May and Hibberd, for starters?

Like, vandenBerg isn't unique in our 22 for being tough.

I really liked Rivers game last week but he really struggled against good sides such as Richmond and Geelong earlier in the season. I’m unsure whether he’d be able to back it up  against a class unit in Collingwood.

VDB is probably more of a hinderance than a help but we have a 4-2 record with him in the side, and lost the Bris and Port games in his absence. I’ve had a gut full of his reversal frees and 50 mtr Penalties.

A win tomorrow and we’re a massive shake for finals given we have a bunch of ordinary sides such as Freo, Sydney and Essendon on the run home.

A loss isn’t the end of the world and we can still manage 8 or 9 wins, but it would be another missed opportunity against the big boys.

Edited August 14, 20205 yr by Bring-Back-Powell

I feel like Goodwin needs to drop players that aren't performing and reward players who are. Hannan and Rivers played well. Deserved another match.
Harmes and Vanders aren't performing, deserves to be dropped.

 

 

I wished the team selections were:

Ins: Viney, Lockhart, Preuss
Outs: Harmes, Vanders, Jackson (injured)
 

Hannan and Rivers out and Jones stays in. Well we are a contested ball club after all.

Jones is a giant of this club for his resilience and loyalty through dark dark years. But in 2020 he does not have attributes to play half back or wing.  Rivers is very promising and displays great attributes for a hbf. Strong overhead, reads play well and intercepts, uses running capacity to chase and tackle and set up play. 

Hannan will be on the radar of other clubs after being dropped again. Some coaches value his combination of running power, marking and linking high half forward role more than others.

I'd have Hannan and Rivers in for Jones and Hibberd. Hope I'm wrong and we don't get outrun by Pies.

 

3 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Averages 3.8 contested disposals, 7 uncontested.

We're not really starting to blame his teammates for his turnovers are we?

We do bat pretty deep in players who turn the ball over....

2 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

I reckon Viney coming in could have replaced vB going out this week. But as you say, we're trying to be based on pressure and intensity so we should be expecting them all to bring it I guess.

  Haven't rated Melksham in that regard this year tbh. Usually he's my absolute number 1, but this year I reckon he's played some selfish footy. Not chasing or tackling (yet ironically named captain last week, go figure) and seems to be looking straight for the goals rather than to deliver to a teammate.

Fritsch is more a target inside 50 rather than a 'connector'.

At this point in time you'd have to have Spargo ahead of Hannan for connection. His game last week was great in that regard and it's previously been a strength of his as well.

Weid and McDonald targets rather than connectors. Petracca probably our best for connection. Viney up and down, has shown signs but wouldn't be rating as one of our best connectors just yet.

Agree that too much is being left to too few in regards to forward pressure, yet Melksham was captain last week so I don't know how it all stacks up. FWIW, Hannan has Melksham covered for tackles, contested possessions, contested marks, one percenters, score involvements and tackles inside 50.

Edit - And pressure acts too.

In 2018, McDonald was both. He would run his man up and back and either get involved on that journey, or find himself back inside 50 in a one on one with a tired opponent.

He's still the same player, but needs to find that level of fitness to wear down his opponent. He's not a forward that can sit inside forward 50 and clunk marks without that extra work.

I back him to get back to that with some continuity but would love some confirmation that he's not sore or feeling any long-term effects of recent injuries. He's never moved amazingly well but his lateral movement seems to be restricted a little more than normal.

Edited August 14, 20205 yr by Cheesy D. Pun

I’m really bummed about Gawn not being able to play tomorrow. I’ve been watching Grundy quite closely the last few weeks (as I have him as my captain in SC draft) and he looks exhausted with his mobility nothing like last year. I really feel a fit Gawn would have given him a bath.

48 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Yes, his toughness is a good thing.

But don't we get the same sort of attitude from Viney, Gawn, Oliver, May and Hibberd, for starters?

Like, vandenBerg isn't unique in our 22 for being tough.

You think about it Viney  yes however the others you mention are hard enough players  they just don't have that hard edge. 

VDB might not be the most skillful  player but he has a hard edge in his game.

Maybe you don't pay enough attention to the way he plays  IMO he is in our best 22.   You say no. That's fine.

 

5 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Hannan out and vandenBerg still in.

Tell me the absolute lie that Goody doesn't play favourites despite form.

 

He's been playing Hannan for 3 years so yes I agree with you LN that he does play favourites. Good decision in my book.....Vandenberg applies pressure, has a physical presence & lays plenty of tackles.

25 minutes ago, Laughing Goat said:

He's been playing Hannan for 3 years so yes I agree with you LN that he does play favourites. Good decision in my book.....Vandenberg applies pressure, has a physical presence & lays plenty of tackles.

Averages 3 tackles a game.

6 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Hannan out and vandenBerg still in.

Tell me the absolute lie that Goody doesn't play favourites despite form.

 

You’re only half correct. It had to be his best mate Melksham for Hannan.  You constantly under value & under appreciate the hard work off the ball done by AVB. 2 on ballers in that team tell me that AVB is so appreciated for his selfless work off the ball that helps their stats and not his.  

12 hours ago, drdrake said:

Avb must have some good photos 

Yes, they would be photos of the final scoreboard in each of the last 4 games that VDB has played in - all Melbourne wins - by an average of 42 points. 

Rivers and Hannan being omitted and a kid like Jordon not even getting a look in show we have good depth all over park. Aside from talls perhaps. 
 

10 hours ago, drdrake said:

This will show us where we are at, a game we should win, the coach is backing his players in, by 7pm tomorrow we will know whether we are a serious side or just a flat track bully.  I think we are the latter but hope to be proved wrong.

We’ll know by 5.25pm, knowing the Dees with a healthy does of MFCSS.

13 hours ago, JTR said:

I hope Viney coming in for Hannan sees him spending more time forward and Brayshaw stays in the middle, rather than the other way around.

Nah mate Goodwin will bugger it up as usual.Brayshaw forward or wing and will have a miserable game

Viney to get in Olivers way all game and cruel our clearances

We will miss Haanans' class up forward as  he was one of our cleanest players last week

What did Rivers do wrong?

Raining here in Brisbane.  Expected thunderstorms at midday.  Wet weather footy coming up !!! 

22 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Raining here in Brisbane.  Expected thunderstorms at midday.  Wet weather footy coming up !!! 

Going to game however whilst maybe a few showers during day expected to clear around 4 pm. Gabba surface will be fine by first bounce.

31 minutes ago, Docs Demons said:

Going to game however whilst maybe a few showers during day expected to clear around 4 pm. Gabba surface will be fine by first bounce.

Have a great day DD.

Make em know your there on behalf of many dees supporters.

Yell GO DEES with passion. Target your cheering at our boys when they are near you and especially when the crowd is quiet. Let your voice ring out despite the score or the opposition supporters. Encourage cajol and inspire.

You are our representative. Don't hold back.

Thanks in anticipation

GO DEES

8 hours ago, goodwindees said:

You’re only half correct. It had to be his best mate Melksham for Hannan.  You constantly under value & under appreciate the hard work off the ball done by AVB. 2 on ballers in that team tell me that AVB is so appreciated for his selfless work off the ball that helps their stats and not his.  

I'm not saying he's a bad player at all, I love vanders and his intensity, physicality etc, I just think he's not giving us anywhere near enough good things at the moment when he's making so many mistakes.

You're right though that Melksham is more like for like with Hannan, and as I pointed out in another post, Hannan leads Melksham in all the pressure related stats. Just think after the last 2 weeks' form no player should still be in the team after having the kind of games vandenBerg has had. Strikes me as very unbalanced that he's still in when others get dropped for much much less.

2 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Yes, they would be photos of the final scoreboard in each of the last 4 games that VDB has played in - all Melbourne wins - by an average of 42 points. 

What, but no photos of the scoreboards from rounds 4 or 5?

Find this such a poor argument when people try to align 1 player to victories.

Bennell has played in 4 wins also, and has a higher winning ratio than vandenBerg. Surely by your criteria that means he should be in the team as well?

1 hour ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Raining here in Brisbane.  Expected thunderstorms at midday.  Wet weather footy coming up !!! 

Wet, wont suit us t, but both Preuss and VB at least are proven wet weather players (remember a 2018 game at Casey, Preuss at North and VB first up for the year in a super wet slog were clearly the 2 most influential players). If it's just a bit greasy and slippery, this will play right into the Pies hands as they have the smart players in Sidebottom, Pendlebury etc... who will play the conditions perfectly and we will most likely try to play dry weather footy chipping it around and handballing incessantly, hence our record in the wet is pretty ordinary.

It's worth keeping in mind that VandenBerg has had two quite significant head knocks in his last outings.  It would be abnormal if this didn't impact his output.  I'll be watching intently this afternoon to see how he goes.