Jump to content

  • Podcast: Grand Final Preview      

  • Podcast: Gary Pert Interview & Grand Final Preview      

TEAMS: Rd 12 vs Collingwood


Demonland
 Share


Recommended Posts

Just now, Lord Nev said:

The last 3 games (per game stats):

Hannan - 7.6 disposals, 0.7 tackles, 3 marks, 0.3 goals, 3 score involvements, 2 clangers, 2.6 turnovers

vandenBerg - 10 disposals, 3 tackles, 2.6 marks, 2 score involvements, 4.3 clangers, 4 turnovers

And if you wanted to include it, goals given to opposition with stupid errors:

Hannan - 0

vandenBerg - 0.7

I don't think he is helping the areas we need it, and for mine, 1.3 extra tackles a game doesn't make up for the huge clanger and turnover numbers. We all love his effort and intensity, but the bad things he does have been outweighing that, especially the last 2 weeks.

I get we may disagree on that, which is fine, but take all that out and just look at the discipline aspect. The bloke has cost us goals doing undisciplined, dumb things 2 games in a row. No player should be selected for a 3rd game after that. We see plenty of other players dropped for far less and to me it's poor culture standards if you let some players off but not others.

You can't honestly tell me you thought vandenBerg was far better than Hannan against the Roos?

These are interesting stats, but do you really think these two are battling for the same position?

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


8 minutes ago, dl4e said:

Sorry but I don't like the inclusion of Preuss. Can't play but I spose they feel the need for a ruckman.

Rivers should not have been dropped. 

I am wondering why Jones, Tomlinson and Harmes continue to get a game. It is a tragedy to watch Harmes at the momment so I hope he regains some form.

Lockhart and Viney are givens to come in.

It'd be a bold move to play no ruck against Grundy, even taking into account his average form.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

These are interesting stats, but do you really think these two are battling for the same position?

Not really, but more using the stats to illustrate the strengths and weaknesses of each player.

Hannan out takes away a genuine marking player in the forward line who can kick a goal and is pretty decent with inside 50 delivery. I don't think Viney is that, and he's the one being brought in.

vandenBerg gives us a hard at it tackler sure, but don't we get that from Viney? Plus, with Viney we also get better ball use and generally far less goals gifted to the opposition.

We've heard Goody talk week after week after week about connection, yet he drops a player providing that and leaves in a player damaging it. I like vandenBerg, don't get me wrong, I love the way he doesn't deviate off his line and runs straight at players, but his disposal, decision making and costly stupid frees the last 2 weeks absolutely should have seen him dropped.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, dl4e said:

Sorry but I don't like the inclusion of Preuss. Can't play but I spose they feel the need for a ruckman.

Rivers should not have been dropped. 

I am wondering why Jones, Tomlinson and Harmes continue to get a game. It is a tragedy to watch Harmes at the momment so I hope he regains some form.

Lockhart and Viney are givens to come in.

I’m ok with Preuss coming in but I was equally keen for them to keep Tom as the main ruckman and bring in Brown as the second tall forward. My reason being that Grundy will likely win most taps regardless of who we have in there, with Tom at least we might have someone to run him off his feet. 

It’s entirely possibly they might choose to do that during certain stages of the game and use Preuss as a tall target (hopefully he’s learned how to clunk some marks). 

The Pies have brought some serious quality in, fingers crossed they may be a little underdone and won’t have the usual impact. I want Viney to go hard for Pendles and tackle/smash him with authority, legally of course ?

Edited by Pates
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

The last 3 games (per game stats):

Hannan - 7.6 disposals, 0.7 tackles, 3 marks, 0.3 goals, 3 score involvements, 2 clangers, 2.6 turnovers

vandenBerg - 10 disposals, 3 tackles, 2.6 marks, 2 score involvements, 4.3 clangers, 4 turnovers

And if you wanted to include it, goals given to opposition with stupid errors:

Hannan - 0

vandenBerg - 0.7

I don't think he is helping the areas we need it, and for mine, the extra tackles a game doesn't make up for the huge clanger and turnover numbers. We all love his effort and intensity, but the bad things he does have been outweighing that, especially the last 2 weeks.

I get we may disagree on that, which is fine, but take all that out and just look at the discipline aspect. The bloke has cost us goals doing undisciplined, dumb things 2 games in a row. No player should be selected for a 3rd game after that. We see plenty of other players dropped for far less and to me it's poor culture standards if you let some players off but not others.

You can't honestly tell me you thought vandenBerg was far better than Hannan against the Roos?

I'd like to see the pressure acts stat, which I'm sure the FD is big on for both these players.

I'm guessing it shows vandenBerg higher than Hannan.

I'm not suggesting that's sufficient for him to retain his spot, though. Just a hunch as to what they're basing it off. I think they think Hannan's not doing enough when the ball hits the deck.

My main issue is the like-for-likeness of the swap. Obviously Preuss/Jackson and Lockhart/Rivers are like-for-like which leaves Viney for Hannan. IMO, Viney would be better suited to slotting into vandenBerg's role than Hannan's, based on how both played vs North.

That issue aside, we've seen some players this year keep their spot despite poor form (vandenBerg, Melksham, Brayshaw and Harmes) whilst others have lost their spot when their form hasn't necessarily warranted (Rivers, ANB, Bennell and arguably OMac and Hannan are the names that spring to mind). Goodwin is stubborn, we know that, and I think he views that former group as best 22 and wants them playing together as much as possible. Maybe the latter group is either not best 22 or might be in 2021 (Rivers/Bennell, for fitness reasons). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I'd like to see the pressure acts stat, which I'm sure the FD is big on for both these players.

I'm guessing it shows vandenBerg higher than Hannan.

I'm not suggesting that's sufficient for him to retain his spot, though. Just a hunch as to what they're basing it off. I think they think Hannan's not doing enough when the ball hits the deck.

My main issue is the like-for-likeness of the swap. Obviously Preuss/Jackson and Lockhart/Rivers are like-for-like which leaves Viney for Hannan. IMO, Viney would be better suited to slotting into vandenBerg's role than Hannan's, based on how both played vs North.

That issue aside, we've seen some players this year keep their spot despite poor form (vandenBerg, Melksham, Brayshaw and Harmes) whilst others have lost their spot when their form hasn't necessarily warranted (Rivers, ANB, Bennell and arguably OMac and Hannan are the names that spring to mind). Goodwin is stubborn, we know that, and I think he views that former group as best 22 and wants them playing together as much as possible. Maybe the latter group is either not best 22 or might be in 2021 (Rivers/Bennell, for fitness reasons). 

Yep, would be surprised if Hannan's pressure index was higher than vandenBerg's over the last 2 weeks. The point I'm making though is that we still need finishers and skillful players, that has to have a value as well. Plus, the dumb things vandenBerg has done the last 2 games outweighs the pressure IMO. Giving away goals, poor turnovers etc put more pressure on us.

Edit - Pressure acts don't have a huge difference this season..

vB - 13.7

Hannan - 10.4

Edited by Lord Nev
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, bing181 said:

No real surprises in the selections. Only surprise for me re Hannan's omission is that he was included last week in the first place. Goes missing too often.

That's the knock on him isn't it.

The roos game was a great example. Had a strong first quarter. Then completely disappeared. 

Given how dominant we were in the ladt quarter, how many inside 50s we had and how stuffed the roos defenders appeared he should have been filling his boots.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Yep, would be surprised if Hannan's pressure index was higher than vandenBerg's over the last 2 weeks. The point I'm making though is that we still need finishers and skillful players, that has to have a value as well. Plus, the dumb things vandenBerg has done the last 2 games outweighs the pressure IMO. Giving away goals, poor turnovers etc put more pressure on us.

Edit - Pressure acts don't have a huge difference this season..

vB - 13.7

Hannan - 10.4

Those two stupid acts deserve an absolute scolding and he is very lucky he’s survived the chop on the back of them. 

For an impact player he isn’t making enough of an impact. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

The last 3 games (per game stats):

Hannan - 7.6 disposals, 0.7 tackles, 3 marks, 0.3 goals, 3 score involvements, 2 clangers, 2.6 turnovers

vandenBerg - 10 disposals, 3 tackles, 2.6 marks, 2 score involvements, 4.3 clangers, 4 turnovers

And if you wanted to include it, goals given to opposition with stupid errors:

Hannan - 0

vandenBerg - 0.7

I don't think he is helping the areas we need it, and for mine, the extra tackles a game doesn't make up for the huge clanger and turnover numbers. We all love his effort and intensity, but the bad things he does have been outweighing that, especially the last 2 weeks.

I get we may disagree on that, which is fine, but take all that out and just look at the discipline aspect. The bloke has cost us goals doing undisciplined, dumb things 2 games in a row. No player should be selected for a 3rd game after that. We see plenty of other players dropped for far less and to me it's poor culture standards if you let some players off but not others.

You can't honestly tell me you thought vandenBerg was far better than Hannan against the Roos?

No but I see the method in the madness with the weather predicted 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Pates said:

Don’t understand Rivers getting dropped, looked good to me. 

Would've omitted Jones, VDB and Harmes before I would've dropped Rivers. Not sure what the go is with Jones he can't get to 300 this year unless we play 3 or 4 finals. Harmes has been incredibly fumbly and VDB too often kicks to the opposition.Hope I'm wrong and all 3 play blinders.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, CBDees said:

Did you read the report on the Round 11 practice game this week? They seemed quite pleased with Preuss (who dominated in the hit-outs)! I am happy to give him a run and suspect that he may surprise the pundits.

Might surprise a few Filth players, as well. There is every chance that some of them will fall over a few times with Preuss in our team, in the wet conditions. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DemonLad5 said:

Vandenberg is a barometer so I understand keeping him in. Hope Harmes staying in means he’s tagging Sidebottom because he was terrible last week 

Jones lucky

like our team much better with Hannan in it! 

Steele will get maximum Brownlow votes if that does happen. His ability to gut run all night is top 5 in the league, I don’t think one of our players can go with him let alone Harmes who’s been terrible of late. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, bing181 said:

No real surprises in the selections. Only surprise for me re Hannan's omission is that he was included last week in the first place. Goes missing too often.

You're spot on here, really think Hannan has plenty of ability but needs to play 4 quarters each game and perform every week , way too inconsistent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Demonland said:

Massive ins for the Pies

B: Jack Crisp, Lynden Dunn, John Noble
HB: Brayden Maynard, Darcy Moore, Chris Mayne
?Tom Phillips, Scott Pendlebury, Steele Sidebottom
HF: Josh Thomas, Brody Mihocek, Will Hoskin-Elliott
F: Ben Reid, Darcy Cameron, Josh Daicos
Foll: Brodie Grundy, Taylor Adams, Jamie Elliott
Int: Josh Daicos, Jack Madgen, Travis Varcoe, Rupert Wills

In: Jamie Elliott, Scott Pendlebury, Ben Reid, Darcy Moore, Will Hoskin-Elliott

Out: Brayden Sier (quad), Jaidyn Stephenson (omitted), Jordan Roughead (concussion), Tim Broomhead (omitted), Chris Mayne (omitted)

Emerg: Tim Broomhead, Chris Mayne, Matt Scharenberg, Mark Keane

Massive ins??????   What about MASSIVE OUTS?   Treloar ,Howe , Stephenson, DeGoey, Roughead.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Kicking efficiency of 53.1 for vB. Yikes.

 

Good counter points above about pressure acts and Hannan not quite getting enough of it though. It’s a tough one as per most weeks, you just hope Vanders can improve his Clanger count. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

Hannan out and vandenBerg still in.

Tell me the absolute lie that Goody doesn't play favourites despite form.

 

Hannan played one quarter last week and then disappeared. Vandenberg, who I haven't been the biggest fan of over the journey, constantly brings pressure at the contest. I'd have consistent pressure versus flakiness every day of the week, particularly as our game is reliant on pressure.

Edited by A F
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Collingwood still have plenty of quality out. Their side on paper doesn’t strike fear into me at all.

Hopefully Pendlebury is underdone, he is absolutely top shelf.

Moore and Maynard are both having very good years and our forwards will have to keep a very close eye on them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, A F said:

Hannan played one quarter last week; Vandenberg, who I haven't been the biggest fan of over the journey, constantly brings pressure at the contest. I'd have consistent pressure versus flakiness every day of the week, particularly as our game is founded on pressure.

Consistent pressure is fine, but I don't think it adds up to say that because Hannan can drift in and out that vandenBerg doesn't. vandenBerg isn't a consistent contributor either and his clangers, turnovers and kicking efficiency more than undo his good work.

As already mentioned, they're pressure acts numbers don't have a huge difference. I think a lot of what people see in vandenBerg is the image of him rather than the reality at the moment. Not sure if it's reflected glory of his previous good games or just that we all love the hard at it players, but the whole pressure argument doesn't stack up for mine when you look at the whole picture.

All fine to have a game focused on pressure, but when you have players consistently giving the ball away you're evening out that pressure by your own actions.

Just find it strange that if our whole system is built on pressure that we pick a player whose only talent is pressure. Shouldn't that be the base for everyone? It strikes me as a bit like picking a tagger, which isn't really done anymore because teams realized you had to do more than just one specific basic thing.

Sorry, ranting a bit. just frustrated that a team that is STILL lacking in forward connection would drop a player who can provide that but leave in a player who consistently destroys it.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, binman said:

That's the knock on him isn't it.

The roos game was a great example. Had a strong first quarter. Then completely disappeared. 

Given how dominant we were in the ladt quarter, how many inside 50s we had and how stuffed the roos defenders appeared he should have been filling his boots.

Kicked a goal and a behind in the last quarter.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    THE ICING ON THE QUAKE by Whispering Jack

    It’s not Christmas yet but if the Melbourne wins its last game of the 2021 season, then many of its fans will be celebrating early. There already are some parts of our town where the pending festivity is preordained. Houses are decked out with red and blue banners and streamers, some of which appeared as early as last Saturday week, on the morning after the Demons’ magnificent 83-point crushing of Geelong in their preliminary final at Optus Stadium. While it’s great to see the numbers of lo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    CAT SKINNING by George On The Outer

    When they defeated the Geelong Cats in the 2021 AFL Preliminary Final on Friday night in Perth, Melbourne proved that there is more than one way to skin those cats.  They did it in the ruck and in the middle, they did it in the forward line, they did it in defence and around the ground, but importantly, each and every player a Demon guernsey spent his night at Optus Stadium skinning an opponent. Following the after-the-siren win against Geelong in Round 23, there was an expectation of

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    THE POINTY END by The Oracle

    The AFL’s two oldest clubs, Melbourne and Geelong, face off on Friday evening in a sudden death Preliminary Final. It’s a game that promises plenty in terms of fascination and intrigue as a result of the rivalry that’s been building between the teams over recent encounters that have been tight struggles which have gone to the wire with two of them decided by after-the-siren goals. The added touch of mystery attached to this week’s meeting comes by virtue of the fact that it’s going to take

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    THE VFL YEAR THAT NEVER WAS by KC from Casey

    The rising case numbers and the continuing lockdowns in Victoria and NSW spelled doom for the 2021 VFL season which went through a slow, painful demise before its recent official cancellation. After weeks of indecision, the AFL decided to pull the plug on the season with the 10-0 Bulldogs recognised as minor premier, but without a premiership cup and without awarding the J.J. Liston Medal for the best and fairest VFL player. It was somewhat fortuitous for the integrity of the competition t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    TAMING THE LIONS by George On The Outer

    With nine finals debutants in the side, the Melbourne Football Club had a daunting assignment ahead of it in the First Qualifying Final — to overcome the competition’s highest scoring side, the Brisbane Lions. In the end, the Demons accomplished the task by putting the bite on their opponents on their way to taming the Lions and recording a 33 point win that propelled them into one the two Preliminary Finals of 2021.   It was one of those debutants, Luke Jackson, who put the bite in more

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    RETURN TO NEVERLAND by Whispering Jack

    The greatest Demon A HIGHWAY OF DEMONS by Whispering Jack CHAPTER SIXTEEN - RETURN TO NEVERLAND  I have a six year old grandson who recently took up the family tradition of following the Demons. He had his first taste of the game a few years ago when he went to the “G” with his parents to watch the 107-point massacre of Carlton and he went to another game in the following season which was also a W for the Dees. But his appetite for the club has grown exponentially this year and wh

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features 13

    METAMORPHOSIS by Whispering Jack

    I’ve always believed that when the home and away matches come to an end, the football season takes on a completely different shape and character. During the regular season, each team’s goals progress as the weeks pass and if you’re good enough to survive and make the grade, the situation changes. The comparison can be made with the life cycle of a butterfly going through stages from egg to larva to caterpillar, cocoon and in the end to a bright and colourful creature that emerges from darkness i

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    STEALING THE CATS’ CREAM by George On The Outer

    They were leading by 44 points well into the third quarter of a game to decide the minor premier, having kicked nine unanswered goals. The Cats were about to lap up their bowl of cream, dreaming of next week but the Demons led by Max Gawn had other ideas. In a stunning finish, they stole the game from under them to claim the plaudits as best team and top of ladder position. In a remarkable game, it all came down to Max having to kick the winning goal after the final siren, something which s

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    SKIN THE CATS by Whispering Jack

    The task ahead for the Demons as they wend their way down the Princes Freeway to Geelong on Saturday night will be to skin the Cats. For them to come away with the points from this game would mark an historic occasion for the club as it will finish on top of the ladder for the first time since its last premiership year, 1964. And it was in that year, that a trip to Corio Bay to meet the reigning premiers in Round 12, was one of the catalysts for Melbourne’s surge to the flag. It was a top o

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    REACH FOR THE STARS by George on the Outer

    It was a game of great significance for the Melbourne Football Club. A win would see them keep top spot on the ladder with one round remaining. To achieve top place in the Round for Reach when we are all inspired to “Be Like Jim” and reach for the stars was a great way of honouring one of our heroes. All the better given that it was done by way of an emphatic 41 point win against Adelaide! It is worth remembering that, but for the umpiring mistake in the previous encounter with the Crows, t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    TICKETS PLEASE by The Oracle

    A lot of water has passed under Princes Bridge in the five years since Melbourne last met Adelaide on the MCG. The Crows were riding high at the time while the Demons were mid-table and scrambling for a win to stay in the race for the finals. The 30,000 fans who had tickets to the game were thoroughly entertained by a close, high scoring affair that ended in tears for fans of the home team. Not even an eight-goal second term could help them.   Times have changed.    In the fi

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    ELECTRIFYING by George On The Outer

    What more can they throw at the Demons of 2021? Covid restrictions, hubs, aircraft circling between airports before landing for games and now a match stopped for 30 minutes to give a flagging opponent its second wind? To date, none of those distractions has swayed the team from their winning objectives. The game against West Coast in Perth can be marked on their report card as another positive outcome after yet another test. There was much at stake for both sides.  Melbourne had t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

×
×
  • Create New...