21 hours ago, McQueen said:

Out: Brayshaw 

In: Jones

Gus’s disposal was absolutely putrid today and he had bugger all of it.

Jones wins it and uses it well and Brayshaw needs a rocket  

 

Don't know what game you were watching, maybe you just said what everyone has said, he had 16 touchs, 8 contested, and 6 score involvement which is the most important stat in the game, which is scoring.

2 hours ago, Return to Glory said:

Please look again.

huh? The only way Oliver haters will not be seen as reactionary will be if they still want him out of the team. So do they? or did he fix all of his fundamentals in 2 weeks? laughing stock you lot.  If they are mute then it's proof of this.

 

Geez, it would be hard and outright idiocy to make personnel changes after a big win like that. I would say no change on the basis that  big wins like that have been rare for us of late plus fitting 9 rounds into 6 weeks or so plus our catch up Dons game will require rotation resting in any case.

9 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

It will be a really tough selection week. Obviously the easy selection would be to make no change. But:

• TMac is in our best side and we need to get him up and playing at his best. And I don't think we should go with 3 talls, as pressure is so important.
• Charlie Cameron is a tough match up for us and a key to winning. He is way too fast for Jetta and too good in the air for Lockhart. Joel Smith could be our best match up from an athletic perspective.
• I still think Jones off half back would make us a better side.

Tony, you could argue against your first point, and I'm totally against your next two.

It's getting to the stage where if anyone talks about Smith's athletic ability I will spew. This is footy, not athletics. His brain isn't wired like a footballer. To call him our best match up for Cameron is just scoreboard suicide.

Jones played games off wing and half back last year. Opposition teams played through him because of his lack of pace-they would play a faster half forward on him who would push him up the ground, then burn him off running back to goal. It's a cruel game, but the game has gone past Nathan Jones rapidly over an 18 month period.

TMc at his best us best 18. I did feel he was starting to get back to his better work in the week before the Gold Coast game, and he started the GC game quite well before his injury. I can understand the call to bring him back in, but I don't think it can be at the expense of Jackson.

I was concerned about Weid & LJ vs Frawley, Sicily and Frost yesterday, thought the Hawks experience would give our young forwards a touch up. The opposite happened, so I'd throw them the challenge again.

For me, no change. 

11 hours ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

Jackson rucked in the forward 50 and competed to lock the ball in. As a natural ruckman, he knew where to hit the ball. This allowed Gawn to set up behind the play and intercept the Hawthorn dump kick out of defence. McDonald does not provide this. Also, when Gawn needed a a rest, Jackson went into the middle and became another midfield, who has the ability to win the hit out. That's why he stays. McDonald does neither of the above. 

I think this misses the point that some of us are making about whether we can play both TMAC and Jackson in the one team. Jackson is an unusual big man as he can play in the ruck AND as a key forward AND as an agile mid fielder. Given his obvious skills this makes our side very flexible. TMac is a bullocking high marking and reasonably quick tall forward. In other words an ideal centre half forward, and we have Weid as a very effective full forward. Jackson looks a more effective ruckman than TMAC so there is nothing to stop Jackson from playing ruck when the ball goes into the forward 50.

l think the best selection is to play all 3. Gives us great flexibility and skill - and would be difficult to match up on for most sides. TMac is too talented and skilled to be left out and adds considerable grunt and skill to our capabilities. 

Someone mentioned Tmac on the wing and I actually don't mind that idea 

It could really pay off or really, really hurt

Pro - strong, athletic and a massive tank

Cons - he's crazy slow and he always does that move where he tries to step inside/take the ball over peoples heads/roll the ball up with one arm and gets caught. Would get burnt on the way back back to d50  

I like Jacko way more than Tmac and I'd be really stunned if he goes out for him 

3 hours ago, don't make me angry said:

Don't know what game you were watching, maybe you just said what everyone has said, he had 16 touchs, 8 contested, and 6 score involvement which is the most important stat in the game, which is scoring.

Agree Brayshaw was ok. Definitely back again for the big game this week. 

7 hours ago, Demon3 said:

Could Harmes go to Raynor? or does he go to McCluggage? I think Hibbo could match up well with Raynor though.

Would play him on Neale myself...then let Brayshaw/Langdon do a job on the wings.

Edited July 20, 20204 yr by rjay

21 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

Just the one change T.Mac for Lockhart keep Jacko in he's a gun.

B: JETTA, MAY, LEVER

HB: SALEM, O.MCDONALD, HIBBERD

C : LANGDON, PETRACCA, HARMES

HF: PICKETT, T.MCDONALD, BENNELL

F: JACKSON, WEIDEMAN, FRITSCH

FOLL: GAWN, OLIVER, VINEY

IC: BRAYSHAW, VANDENBERG, HANNAN, MELKSHAM

How would you use the trio of Weid, LJ and T mac?

Something tells me it could work, but it is going in VERY tall.

22 minutes ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

How would you use the trio of Weid, LJ and T mac?

Something tells me it could work, but it is going in VERY tall.

Weid to play deep and half forward swapping with Jackson and T.Mac to play further up the ground wing half back.

23 minutes ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

How would you use the trio of Weid, LJ and T mac?

Something tells me it could work, but it is going in VERY tall.

It's a good side but all the bench players are playing half forward / wing.   You shouldn't see Lockhart dropped but if he is, surely they will replace him with another defender e.g. Rivers /  Smith

10 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I agree that Weideman needs to spend 100% of game time in the forward line. However, if Tom McDonald comes into the side he could take on the second ruck role which allows Weideman to remain as a full-time forward should Jackson be omitted.

So, Werridee, who's your seventh defender? We always play a mix of 2 talls/ 5 smalls or 3 talls/ 4 smaller defenders to allow for rotations.

This is a critical issue. It would be helpful if we knew what the forward program beyond next week was. I wouldn't be at all surprised if players who have had limited preparations start getting rested soon. That may include Bennell, Pickett, vandenBerg and Jackson (although if Jackson is replaced this week, I doubt it's because he needs a rest.)

And now to what I suspect will be my most contentious point. I liked what I saw with Jackson and I agree the more game time he gets, the better he will become. But I don't think he was particularly good. Yes, he was a lot better than his first game. Yes, he shows the traits and style we want to see. Yes, I was impressed with his willingness to get to the ball and make contests. But, I don't think he really did that much. Would I select him next week? Yes. I would also select Tom McDonald and decide which of Bennell, Pickett or vandenBerg needs a rest. That player not only could come back the following week but it should be made clear to them that it's about management not form. 

You could always use Harmes or what I would like to see Brayshaw in defence to free him up a bit.

7 hours ago, don't make me angry said:

Don't know what game you were watching, maybe you just said what everyone has said, he had 16 touchs, 8 contested, and 6 score involvement which is the most important stat in the game, which is scoring.

 seriously dude, watch the game and not read the bloody stats. He had so many kicks that didnt even get in the air and were just mongrelled along the ground.

Suburban footy stuff.   

5 hours ago, Dr.D said:

 seriously dude, watch the game and not read the bloody stats. He had so many kicks that didnt even get in the air and were just mongrelled along the ground.

Suburban footy stuff.   

He had 1 kick that mongrelled along the ground, hit a forward on the chest in forward 50, had 2 smart handballs that lead to goals, I watched the replay yesterday, without emotion, the most important stat is score involvements, he played ok and not that bad, people like you are bias and see 1 bad kick and think ever kick  is the same. You have no idea.

Gawny on rsn now for 25 mins

17 minutes ago, binman said:

Gawny on rsn now for 25 mins

Thanks for the heads up. 

Talked about Trac and how he has worked on mindset which has kept him focused in parts of games he has historically become distracted. Made some mention of him even working on (or at least attempting to) his behaviour off the field in this regard.

Talked a bit about him and Jacko but not a great deal to report on that front.

Talked about an ‘unselfish’ midfield and what I took from it was they like the balance of Trac/Clarry/Viney/Brayshaw at the moment. Made special mention of Brayshaw and how he thinks he has been one of Melbourne’s best and he is confused why people are saying he is out of form. I’m sure that will upset a few on here.

Goodwin just on SEN. Said TMac will be healthy but intimidated he was not a certain selection due to the form of Jackson and Weideman. 

6 hours ago, Dr.D said:

 seriously dude, watch the game and not read the bloody stats. He had so many kicks that didnt even get in the air and were just mongrelled along the ground.

Suburban footy stuff.   

Hang on. Weren’t you piling into people who questioned Oliver’s disposal the other week? You confuse me.

8 minutes ago, The Jackson 6 said:

Thanks for the heads up. 

Talked about Trac and how he has worked on mindset which has kept him focused in parts of games he has historically become distracted. Made some mention of him even working on (or at least attempting to) his behaviour off the field in this regard.

Talked a bit about him and Jacko but not a great deal to report

Talked about an ‘unselfish’ midfield and what I took from it was they like the balance of Trac/Clarry/Viney/Brayshaw at the moment. Made special mention of Brayshaw and how he thinks he has been one of Melbourne’s best and he is confused why people are saying he is out of form. I’m sure that will upset a few on here.

Ta j6. Just made that same point about Brayshaw on the what has happened to him thread.

It appears the answer is he playing well and pleasing his coach and team mates 

Brayshaw is actually a really nice long kick, and on both feet as well. It’s those short kicks, particularly on his left that are dodgey.

After listening to Gawn on RSN, Brayshaw will not be getting dropped anytime soon.

22 minutes ago, Forest Demon said:

Brayshaw is actually a really nice long kick, and on both feet as well. It’s those short kicks, particularly on his left that are dodgey.

Agree.

His ability to kick well with his left foot is a much underappreciated skill and actually quite important one for the dees. Think of how few players in our team are reliable on their non preferred foot.

There might beosme other but i can only think of Melksham, Bennell (i assume, just coz he is sublime) Jones (sort off) and Viney (joking - but ironically his best kick inside 50 this year was the one to trac against the suns on his right. At least until his beauty to fritter last game).

Being two sided means more options for where he is played and helps with moving the ball forward as he can't be trapped on one side, like say hibbo. 

A perfect example was the kick to to Fritter that set up the Tracc wonder kick to Weed in the square.

Brayshaw won the ball hard on the boundary and if he had to jinck to his right rather than kick on his left he may have been tackled, found it harder to cut the ball back to fritter,  or they might have had enough time to get across to Fritter and/or tracc cover them.

11 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

Weid to play deep and half forward swapping with Jackson and T.Mac to play further up the ground wing half back.

Whilst I get that people see TMac playing on a wing and touting the benefits, I'm concerned that we are trying to squeeze him in just cos it's TMac. He's not in good form atm, and Jackson took the opportunity last week and deserves to play ahead of TMac this week. We have a very fit list to chose from, Jones isn't being gifted a spot in the 18, and nor should TMac. That sends the wrong message to the list.

Further to that point, if we want a tall wing option, lets use the one we recruited for that purpose, who trained the whole preseason there, and has all of the attributes and is more mobile than TMac, in Tomlinson, who has the same elite endurance, strength and similar height... and I don't see many people saying Tomlinson should be in this week, so why shoehorn TMac in to the team under the same premise.

Last thing to add here is that last week I noticed for the first time in a long time, our forwards appeared mindful of each other's space to lead and move around. I'm not saying this is Tom's fault, and could be a result of form, but he doesn't seem to be making space, he takes up space and looks like he wants the ball dropped on top of him rather than in front or behind to lead into... I might be a little harsh perhaps, I don't know.

Edited July 21, 20204 yr by Ouch!

TMac probably won't play: key-dee-available-but-no-guarantees

"When asked whether McDonald was an 'automatic' selection, Goodwin response was not definitive.  "I think we're still finding our best mix is and we'll continue to look at how we function," Goodwin said.  "He's (McDonald) no different to any other player, we'll pick the team that's in form."

If he doesn't play it sends a strong message to all players to stay in form and fit because once out it will be hard to get back in. 

Applaud Goodwin for making the tough calls and resist selecting players who may be thought as walk up starts:  Tomlinson, Jones, and now TMac, maybe. 

Very happy to see no change.

Edited July 21, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero

40 minutes ago, Ouch! said:

I'm not saying this is Tom's fault, and could be a result of form, but he doesn't seem to be making space, he takes up space and looks like he wants the ball dropped on top of him rather than in front or behind to lead into... I might be a little harsh perhaps, I don't know.

I hadn't thought about this but I think i sort of agree (is that equivocal enough?). 

He does seem to be a bit stationary and often defaults to trying to simply out body his direct opponent.

Maybe form but to me he has looked too big this year and perhaps even carrying an injury. He is certainly not as mobile and on his bike as he was in 2018.

Perhaps i'm being a bit harsh but sometimes i have thought a few times this year that his body language has not been not great if the ball is not kicked to the perfect spot or if not getting a free he deserves. 

That said i was reflecting on how much more space our forwards had yesterday and how often there were free players inside 50 (eg kozzie, bennell, harmes, tracc).

But reckon that sapce is a function of how well me moved the ball. The hawks had a defensive zone set up but when we moved the ball fast from defence it looked like there were holes every where inside our 50.

Frost must have been thinking he was back at the dees when he first came to our club. I can recall thinking back in say  2015 when were trying to implement a zone defence that there were holes everywhere and we gave opposition teams acres of space.

I guess the question with Tmac is, at the moment is he a help or a hindrance in that quick ball movement from defence to our inside 50. The connection Goody loves to reference.

With Jackson's i don't think there is much question he helped. His mobilty and speed creates space and helps him get up and down the ground and he supports connection.

 

Edited July 21, 20204 yr by binman