Jonesy to 300?

[At the break of Gawn 3,805]

He'll get there if he deserves his spot. The club can't gift games so that individuals can reach personal milestones. Jarryd Roughead was close (283) but didn't get to 300 either. 

[John Crow Batty 8,350]

Continuing to play Jones is choosing old boy sentimentality over the future. His is not up to playing another 12 games for us over this and next season based on form, leadership and lack of defined role. He can’t play out a full game and we effectively play with 17 men in the last quarters with him on the field. He may get a farewell game if we fall out of the finals running and that should be it. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by america de cali

[Billy 2,159]

24 minutes ago, Win4theAges said:

I think he has earnt the right to go around again next year to get to 300.

I know he's not best 22 but has carried the club for a number of years and considering what Covid has thrown up, he rightly deserves to be in a squad based set up with 300 in mind next year body permitting.

The Club and Goody know this and will allow him to get there in the right circumstances.

We have had 1 player (Neita) in the 162 years of Football play 300 games for our Football club, you can't just throw that away and dismiss it, we have to celebrate it, otherwise it to will leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth just like J Mac.

Don't forget we got Jordan over the line to 300, so Jonesy who has served the club for 15 years deserves this opportunity especially.

Well said, there’s still room for a bit of sentiment in this game?
To single him out as ordinary in 2019 is a stretch, l could name another 15 blokes in that category 

Should play this year if fit & it’s in the hands of the gods in 2021

[Laughing Goat 308]

For those of you who like stats Jones 2019 stats are as follows:

71% efficiency, 20.5 disposals per game, average 4 turnovers per game,  2.4 tackles per game, 6.7 contested poss per game,  2.1 clearances per game.

Other disposal efficiency averages for 2019 were: 

Lewis 78%, Stretch 77%, Lever 73%, Salem 73%, Viney 71%, Hunt 70%, Petracca 69%, 

 

[pitmaster 3,146]

Probably not going to get close. Maybe he will return for a few games later this year but even a farewell appearance would be pointless if there's no crowd to see him off.

In the unlikely even he gets another year he would probably get there but the niggles suggest the body is giving out.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

I’ve always felt footy in general is quick to turf out ageing players. If he’s fit, I think he’s good enough to be on the list next year, but that’s a big if at the moment. Recurring soft tissue injuries at the end of your career can be tough to shake.

[Jaded No More 59,648]

3 hours ago, george_on_the_outer said:

6 games this year...and given the quick turnaround scenario which is coming...one of the mids will need resting at some point.

6 games next year...is Jones better than KK, Hore, Wagner x2 at the moment?  We won't be heavily involved in the draft this year, maybe the trade period more so.  There are 4 who would be delisted before him, without any debates about probably another 3 or 4 players. 

We still don't know what the list size will be next year, but I suspect it won't be a sizable drop due to player contracts already in place. 

We can get him to 300 without really any loss overall to the list. 

Getting him to 300 is a positive for the club.  No more Junior situations!

Completely agree.

If given the choice to delist, there are 6-7 players who I would delist ahead of Jones at season's end. Jones can cover multiple roles, and he still brings experience and leadership. I rather him play HB in a final than say Lockhart. 

We are so quick to forget the sacrifices this guy made in his career for this club. He deserves to get to 300 games, and more than that, I think our club would benefit from us making it happen for him. It shows loyalty and appreciation for those who gave so much to the club for such a long period of time.

Sometimes having a winning culture isn't just about winning games. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

44 minutes ago, Laughing Goat said:

For those of you who like stats Jones 2019 stats are as follows:

71% efficiency, 20.5 disposals per game, average 4 turnovers per game,  2.4 tackles per game, 6.7 contested poss per game,  2.1 clearances per game.

Other disposal efficiency averages for 2019 were: 

Lewis 78%, Stretch 77%, Lever 73%, Salem 73%, Viney 71%, Hunt 70%, Petracca 69%,

That's disposal efficiency which is a supremely flawed stat. Under certain circumstances you can actually turn it over but have it count as an 'effective disposal'. It also doesn't have any kind of context around disposals or degree of difficulty. It's a nuffie stat.

Champion Data had a 'kick rating' stat which measured the degree of difficulty of each kick, the expected amount of times a player should succeed with that kick and then measure players against that rating. It's a far more relevant stat than the useless 'disposal efficiency' stat.

In 2019, Nathan Jones was rated number 1 in that stat for the Dees.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Lord Nev

[DeeSpencer 23,629]

What position is he going to play:
Half back flank: Unfortunately the speed that Richmond put in to the game in 2017 probably took out the option of the veteran on a half back flank similar to Matty Boyd. Lewis did it in 2018 and he had height and kicking on Jones, but even then got found out by the best teams and it was clear in 2019 that wasn't going to work.

Wing: Jones adapted pretty well to the wing but once again we saw last year he struggled for speed and disposal under pressure in that role. It's easier in a better and fitter team and maybe he could play a bit on the wing ahead of say Vanders but his fitness will have to be top draw to run out to space and get enough of the ball. 

Forward: Hmmmm. He just doesn't tackle. And if you can't tackle can you play half forward these days? You better be getting a lot of the ball and using it well. In that regard Bennell is his most direct rival - another player who so far doesn't tackle or pressure much, but the skill upside of Bennell is superior. Melksham's the same, but Melk has overhead ability and hopefully starts finding his kicking boots. I get the feeling they're trying really hard to get his body 100% because his best attribute at half forward these days would be a tank that can all over the ground and keep finding the ball as the extra to the contest. 

I think his best role would actually be on ball with stints at half forward or wing to rest his body, but that's our strongest spot.

This year was always going to be a struggle to get to 300 and once the 17 game season came in and he was dropped it was looking very unlikely. In some ways it could be good that it won't happen this year now because he gets to focus his efforts on playing very well once he gets a chance and making a genuine claim for next year. That's better than everyone than if he had got to 290ish and was limping along and they had to keep playing him out of obligation. Assuming he gets back in the side he'll then have a  chance to show he can fight for it on merit.

[Alex Flood 245]

If it gets to the point that we’re no chance of making finals then you play him but right now we need to be picking the best 22 & he’s not in it.

[Diamond_Jim 12,095]

5 minutes ago, Alex Flood said:

If it gets to the point that we’re no chance of making finals then you play him but right now we need to be picking the best 22 & he’s not in it.

mathematically without finals he can't make 300.

Would prefer to see Sparrow etc trialled.

Same unfortunately for Jetta I expect.

[reynolds46 823]

Won’t get there this year and doubt he believes he will be back again next year.

no shame in being between Neitz and Flower as all time games for MFC 

[The Chazz 4,077]

Highly unlikely that he will get the 300 games this year, and if he manages to get a contract for 2021 to get him to the milestone, brutally I'd be suggesting he turns the lights off on the way out at the end of next year because the club will officially be deceased.

[58er 5,699]

6 hours ago, BW511 said:

It's an interesting one for sure.

Almost 300 games at Melbourne, would he have made 200 anywhere else?

Make no mistake, he's been an absolute warrior for our club over a long period of time

No it's not interesting BW511

To insinuate Jonesy has been gifted games while at Melb over his career Is  cruel, Unforgiving and downright insulting.

Since 2006 until now when has he played poorly enough that he would have been dropped for players such as Bartram Mat Jones Kennedy and James Magner.

Did Nate keep out Bartram Kennedy Mat Jones or James Magner for instance to get to this total. NO so your idea has no Sense or merit and quite frankly will make most Demons fans feel sick at your Suggestion.

Sometimes better not to say ( or write ) something if it' s not nice at all.

 

 

[Lucifers Hero 37,505]

Jones has been loyal, stoic and a stalwart for us during our darkest days.  But there were others who stayed loyal and worked hard to keep us going:  Gawn, Jetta, TMc and others who we have chosen to move on were there for 186, for the Neeld years etc. 

Everyone loves Jonesy but I can't see that the club owes him and not sure what sacrifices he has made that others haven't.  Sorry if that is unpopular thinking.

His one game this year was a shocker.  I for one do not want to see us miss finals this year or next, to get someone to a personal milestone if that person is a millstone in the 13 games to get there. 

Mahoney and Goodwin have made tough decisions on fan favourites and they will with Jonesy if the need arises.

The angst with Jr was he was blindsided and it was done brutally.  Most people new it was time.  I trust Mahoney and Goodwin to have had and to continue to have those discussions with Jonesy so when the end comes it will sit comfortably with everyone.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[Billy 2,159]

49 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

Highly unlikely that he will get the 300 games this year, and if he manages to get a contract for 2021 to get him to the milestone, brutally I'd be suggesting he turns the lights off on the way out at the end of next year because the club will officially be deceased.

That’s as dumb a post that l have ever read

[Pennant St Dee 11,740]

If he's fit enough he  and the FD feel he has something to offer they will keep him on, next season but it won't be for sentiment.

Love Jonesy but we are talking 13 games not a handful.

I don't think he'll be gifted any games, he could still play as an inside mid, but we don't need anymore of them currently.

Whatever his final game count is he is already going to be remembered as a great servant of the club.

[gs77 3,508]

2 hours ago, Jaded said:

Completely agree.

If given the choice to delist, there are 6-7 players who I would delist ahead of Jones at season's end. Jones can cover multiple roles, and he still brings experience and leadership. I rather him play HB in a final than say Lockhart. 

We are so quick to forget the sacrifices this guy made in his career for this club. He deserves to get to 300 games, and more than that, I think our club would benefit from us making it happen for him. It shows loyalty and appreciation for those who gave so much to the club for such a long period of time.

Sometimes having a winning culture isn't just about winning games. 

Being retained on the list is one thing - being best 22 is another; debates about the former sadly don't augur well for the latter. I'm finding it increasingly hard to see him getting those remaining games with the Rivers's, Jordons, ANBs, Sparrows, Bedford's, etc. also in the mix.

If on-field recognition of his titanic service via selection/farewell game to our club over his career isn't viable I'd certainly hope that some other befitting acknowledgement and a graceful ending can be mustered. We have plenty of "what-not-to-do"s in that regard in our recent history.

[Laughing Goat 308]

3 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

That's disposal efficiency which is a supremely flawed stat. Under certain circumstances you can actually turn it over but have it count as an 'effective disposal'. It also doesn't have any kind of context around disposals or degree of difficulty. It's a nuffie stat.

Champion Data had a 'kick rating' stat which measured the degree of difficulty of each kick, the expected amount of times a player should succeed with that kick and then measure players against that rating. It's a far more relevant stat than the useless 'disposal efficiency' stat.

In 2019, Nathan Jones was rated number 1 in that stat for the Dees.

A 'Nuffie' stat.....

Righto thanks for clearing that up Lord Nev, or should I say 'expert' Nev ?

Either way mate, if we are serious about winning games & putting our best side on the park every week, at the moment, unfortunately Jonesy's not in it.

 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 minute ago, Laughing Goat said:

A 'Nuffie' stat.....

Righto thanks for clearing that up Lord Nev, or should I say 'expert' Nev ?

Either way mate, if we are serious about winning games & putting our best side on the park every week, at the moment, unfortunately Jonesy's not in it.

Just to clarify, wasn't calling you a nuffie with that, just that the stat itself is a poor one. Although in saying that, I consider myself a nuffie, so I don't know.

No argument from me that he's not in our best side currently, and IMO it's a lock this is his last year. Seemingly a similar one to both Bernie and Jordan Lewis who were in and out in their last year before retirement.

[Fanatique Demon 2,472]

Sorry gs77, "with the Rivers's, Jordons, ANBs, Sparrows, Bedford's, etc. also in the mix."

How many Rivers, Sparrows and Bedfords do we have?

 

 

[The Chazz 4,077]

1 hour ago, Billy said:

That’s as dumb a post that l have ever read

Why?

Jones is finished. Can't keep in the park, can't run out of sight at midnight, has numerous players ahead of him, and we are now looking at the strong possibility that there will be list cuts at the end of the season, which will also see us add to our list to try and improve it.

If Jones still makes the cut after all of that, I will seriously question every aspect of our club.

That's harsh, I know, but if we are serious about trying to get better, then it has to be the reality.

Sorry if I've hurt your feelings.

[Billy 2,159]

9 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

Why?

Jones is finished. Can't keep in the park, can't run out of sight at midnight, has numerous players ahead of him, and we are now looking at the strong possibility that there will be list cuts at the end of the season, which will also see us add to our list to try and improve it.

If Jones still makes the cut after all of that, I will seriously question every aspect of our club.

That's harsh, I know, but if we are serious about trying to get better, then it has to be the reality.

Sorry if I've hurt your feelings.

You haven’t hurt my feelings, just stated how dumb a post it is

[The Chazz 4,077]

5 minutes ago, Billy said:

You haven’t hurt my feelings, just stated how dumb a post it is

I ask again, why?

[praha 10,547]

9 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Classic Melbourne that a global pandemic would prevent a club favourite reaching 300 games.

 

He would have struggled regardless. I can't see him making the top 22 even with ANB and Spargo ahead of him.