With the current plight of the club , no first round draft pick , not enough skills, not enough composure.  

If offers come for Viney as a free agent do we let him go ? 

If we were guaranteed a 1st round compensation pick after our original pick then I think we almost have to, particularly if do finish bottom four.

This could give us options to either trade for or draft a midfielder with better skills/ composure. 

At the moment we don't have much currency trade or draft pick wise and i think as much as i love his hardness maybe Jack is expendable  

 

A first round pick will be more of a guessing game this year.

Late second rounder.

Sadly we would have to think about it.. I love Jack, he is a goer and he has been a captain in more of our successful times than any other recently. He is a Melbourne man through and through and you only have to look at out 2 finals wins just how hard, important and central he was to those wins, coming off a bad year of injury, i think people forget that. He is suffering at the moment because others are not doing their job properly, and others are suffering because Jack isnt doing his job properly, its a whirlpool of mediocrity at the moment. But who else gets us into teh first round? Does he even get us into teh first round.. maybe end of first round.. its a deep problem when you trade away a commodity like a first round pick then completely stuff the season up and potentially give away teh first pick.

Disaster and teh most Melbourne thing to do. Something will have to change, names will be offered im sure.. its going to get nasty i reckon.

I don't know what's wrong with him.   He should be reaching the peak of his career.  He doesn't seem happy to me. I would keep him.  He may spring to life under a new coach.

It would be a very dangerous thing to willingly let Viney go. Baby and bathwater and that. People forget how much we were crying out for his hardness, competitiveness and leadership before he arrived at the club. He's not exactly flavour of the month atm, but if we were to play a final this weekend (lol), you'd already have him penciled in as being among our best. 

Yes, our midfield has deplorable kicking skills, and Viney is probably the worst of the lot. Structurally, something clearly needs to change, but Viney is one that I'd keep.

It would make me nauseous to see him in an Essendon jumper. 

If the Coach gets his act together, then Viney will be a gun

This is on the Coach

If not Viney , what are our options to get back in the 1st round of the draft ?  I think we need to 

He's my favourite player, he's also my least favourite player.

Something has to change in our midfield though, one of Viney and Brayshaw will be gone next year IMO.

 

He's behind Oliver and Petracca in the pecking order and is not creative at all or skilled by foot.

Would have limited currency and would have to walk, otherwise a LOT of Melbourne supporters will be up in arms.

He's also got a new baby less than 2 weeks old, footy is not anyone's priority during that period

Talking about letting him go has James McDonald written all over it, no way I'd entertain it, unless he desperately wanted out. The first game against West Coast was great, and he's got to get near to that each week, he doesn't need 30 touches. But needs to make at least 5 tackles, 5 clearances and improve his disposal efficiency by around 10%. Of all out midfielders he should be the defensive beast, not a tagger, but one who can lock the ball in or turn it into a scrap when the game is going against us. 

33 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Talking about letting him go has James McDonald written all over it, no way I'd entertain it, unless he desperately wanted out. The first game against West Coast was great, and he's got to get near to that each week, he doesn't need 30 touches. But needs to make at least 5 tackles, 5 clearances and improve his disposal efficiency by around 10%. Of all out midfielders he should be the defensive beast, not a tagger, but one who can lock the ball in or turn it into a scrap when the game is going against us. 

I hear you but tend to disagree. jack is rover sized, albeit powerful and has been encouraged to be a beast from the day he arrived. This has been at the expense of learning and working on execution skills. He often goes for balls others should be and the others out of respect or fear of his authority stand by. He should be concentrating on playing a true rovers role and leave the bullocking to a tradional ruck rover type like petracca or more modern day type like Oliver. The traditional set up and I will stand corrected was.

Ruck  big tick

Ruck Rover  Strong versatile and moderately skilled

Rover   Fast and skilled of foot

Centreman  Skilled and Classy, roamed far and wide.

I think that model is still applicable today for the Dees. Too much of one type, regardless of balance unsettles things. I think modern recruiting terminolgy is rubbish where everyone is a midfielder. It is about point of difference.

1 hour ago, one_demon said:

I don't know what's wrong with him.   He should be reaching the peak of his career.  He doesn't seem happy to me. I would keep him.  He may spring to life under a new coach.

i see what you did there...

9 minutes ago, binman said:

i see what you did there...

Very observant

1 hour ago, Half forward flank said:

Late second rounder

Agree no way you would get a first round pick he cannot kick.

7 minutes ago, old dee said:

Agree no way you would get a first round pick he cannot kick.

it all comes down to what he's offered, not what he can or cannot do

say he gets offered a 5-year, $650k a year deal then we'd get a first round pick for him

i can't see him getting near that sort of offer tho

Would take a complete implosion of the club for Jack to leave. We would have to push him out.

Cant see it happening

Nor should it imo.

Fans want players to bleed for the jumper, and we are discussing letting go the one guy who is more emotionally invested in this club than anyone else i can think of. Yes, he has some skill shortfalls, but nothing would kill the morale of the list more than seeing Jack get "moved on".

We are in enough trouble as it is.

 

Edited July 7, 20204 yr by ding

42 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

I hear you but tend to disagree. jack is rover sized, albeit powerful and has been encouraged to be a beast from the day he arrived. This has been at the expense of learning and working on execution skills. He often goes for balls others should be and the others out of respect or fear of his authority stand by. He should be concentrating on playing a true rovers role and leave the bullocking to a tradional ruck rover type like petracca or more modern day type like Oliver. The traditional set up and I will stand corrected was.

Ruck  big tick

Ruck Rover  Strong versatile and moderately skilled

Rover   Fast and skilled of foot

Centreman  Skilled and Classy, roamed far and wide.

I think that model is still applicable today for the Dees. Too much of one type, regardless of balance unsettles things. I think modern recruiting terminolgy is rubbish where everyone is a midfielder. It is about point of difference.

Those definitions are about right, although they have no meaning in the modern game. Plus Jack would be the definition of the Ruck Rover - Strong and moderately skilled, not fast and skilled of foot. Personally I think Jack is still a weapon but needs the right combination with him, as I said I think he is more a stoppage/defensive mid, I'd put Harmes and Brayshaw in that mould as well, while Oliver and Trac I'd say are more aggressive. If things are going bad for us, I'd put Viney, Harmes and Gus in the middle to try and slow down the speed of the game and when we're on top whack Oliver and Trac in the middle to try and keep the moment going. This doesn't mean they all can't do both roles, but I just see some as being more attacking minded than others.

13 minutes ago, ding said:

Would take a complete implosion of the club for Jack to leave. We would have to push him out.

Cant see it happening

Nor should it imo.

Fans want players to bleed for the jumper, and we are discussing letting go the one guy who is more emotionally invested in this club than anyone else i can think of. Yes, he has some skill shortfalls, but nothing would kill the morale of the list more than seeing Jack get "moved on".

We are in enough trouble as it is.

 

Have you thought he might want out. Took the captaincy off him, His dad shown the door, playing poorly Dees going down the tubes and destined to stay down. Port with his old mate might look very attractive.

5 minutes ago, old dee said:

Have you thought he might want out. Took the captaincy off him, His dad shown the door, playing poorly Dees going down the tubes and destined to stay down. Port with his old mate might look very attractive.

But his old mate wants to go to Carlton.

1 minute ago, Redleg said:

But his old mate wants to go to Carlton.

Well off to the Blues. Last year I said they would win a flag before us and everyone scoffed at the idea. 
looking more likely with every passing game.

If this season continues on the Last 18 months Path there will be quite a few looking at greener pastures.

22 minutes ago, old dee said:

Well off to the Blues. Last year I said they would win a flag before us and everyone scoffed at the idea. 
looking more likely with every passing game.

If this season continues on the Last 18 months Path there will be quite a few looking at greener pastures.

I would be shocked if a few didnt ask to be traded if our year ended with MFC 17th or 18th again. Who could blame them. Success doesnt appear to be in our near future.

2 minutes ago, ding said:

I would be shocked if a few didnt ask to be traded if our year ended with MFC 17th or 18th again. Who could blame them. Success doesnt appear to be in our near future.

Blo dy  sad isn't ?

3 hours ago, JMDemon said:

With the current plight of the club , no first round draft pick , not enough skills, not enough composure.  

If offers come for Viney as a free agent do we let him go ? 

If we were guaranteed a 1st round compensation pick after our original pick then I think we almost have to, particularly if do finish bottom four.

This could give us options to either trade for or draft a midfielder with better skills/ composure. 

At the moment we don't have much currency trade or draft pick wise and i think as much as i love his hardness maybe Jack is expendable  

 

No chance of a 1st rounder 

51 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Those definitions are about right, although they have no meaning in the modern game. Plus Jack would be the definition of the Ruck Rover - Strong and moderately skilled, not fast and skilled of foot. Personally I think Jack is still a weapon but needs the right combination with him, as I said I think he is more a stoppage/defensive mid, I'd put Harmes and Brayshaw in that mould as well, while Oliver and Trac I'd say are more aggressive. If things are going bad for us, I'd put Viney, Harmes and Gus in the middle to try and slow down the speed of the game and when we're on top whack Oliver and Trac in the middle to try and keep the moment going. This doesn't mean they all can't do both roles, but I just see some as being more attacking minded than others.

Interesting.   To me,  when watching games there appears to be no difference between a rover and ruck rover.  Don't they both sit under the ruckman and do the same thing?