CHANGES: Rd 06 vs Gold Coast

[WERRIDEE 5,348]

Just now, Luther said:

I don't think we played our best team at all. Our best team doesn't involve Tom McDonald as a sole key forward, or playing Jake Lever as a second tall back when he should be a third tall. Harley Bennell is in our best team. There are changes that need to be made and I don't think it should involve throwing first year players into such a poorly drilled team or before form warrants it.

We don't have another key forward. Lever did play 3rd back. Smith was on Riewoldt and May was on Lynch. Lever is useless the most overrated player in the comp. I agree that Bennell is in our best team but that is it. Riewoldt only kicked 1 goal Smith did his job Lever didn't whatever that is?

[Jaded No More 67,644]

If the 132 coaches we have can’t between them put a brain cell together and bring in a second tall forward, I give up. 
 

And anyone who can justify the position of Melksham or Lockhart or Smith ahead of Jones, Jetta or OMac, I would love your explanation. 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Jaded

[drdrake 3,123]

8 minutes ago, Luther said:

I don't think we played our best team at all. Our best team doesn't involve Tom McDonald as a sole key forward, or playing Jake Lever as a second tall back when he should be a third tall. Harley Bennell is in our best team. There are changes that need to be made and I don't think it should involve throwing first year players into such a poorly drilled team or before form warrants it.

The only first year player I had was Jackson, Weiderman needs 4 to 5 games crack at, Bennell is 28 yo top line talent when fit and Bedford second year. 

My team

Jetta May Smith 

Lockhart Lever Hibbard 

Langdon Petracca Tomlinson 

Hannah TMac Bennell

Kossie Weiderman Fritsch

Gawn Salem Oliver

Jackson, Bedford, Jones, Harmes

Edited July 5, 2020 by drdrake

[CHF 2,696]

OMac in for Smith and Jetta in for Rivers.

Sparrow in for Viney with Harmes spending more time in the middle.

Weiderman in for Hunt and Jones in for AVB. 

Bennell in for Lockhart.

B: Jetta, May, Lever

HB: Salem, OMac, Hibberd

? Langdon, Oliver, Tomlinson

HF: Jones, TMac, Fristch 

F: Bennell, Weideman, Pickett

R: Gawn, Petracca, Harmes

I: Brayshaw, Sparrow, Hannan, Melksham 

[WERRIDEE 5,348]

9 minutes ago, Jaded said:

If the 132 coaches we have can’t between them put a brain cell together and bring in a second tall forward, I give up. 
 

And anyone who can justify the position of Melksham or Lockhart or Smith ahead of Jones, Jetta or OMac, I would love your explanation. 

Jones and Jetta are over the hill and O.Mac is a spud. The decision to get rid of Frost is turning out to be a shocker. Frost is 20 times the player that spud Lever is.

[Jaded No More 67,644]

Just now, WERRIDEE said:

Jones and Jetta are over the hill and O.Mac is a spud. The decision to get rid of Frost is turning out to be a shocker. Frost is 20 times the player that spud Lever is.

Jones and Jetta provide a bit of leadership. They might be “over the hill” but I rather Jones kicking the ball inside 50 than Viney or Oliver. At least he can hit a target. Jetta can defend. Our back line is currently stacked with loose show ponies trying to attack. Nobody remembers to defend except May. 
Omac is a spud. Ah that old chestnut. He’s a better defender one on one than Smith and Lever. 

[Forest Demon 4,681]

32 minutes ago, Jaded said:

Jones and Jetta provide a bit of leadership. They might be “over the hill” but I rather Jones kicking the ball inside 50 than Viney or Oliver. At least he can hit a target. Jetta can defend. Our back line is currently stacked with loose show ponies trying to attack. Nobody remembers to defend except May. 
Omac is a spud. Ah that old chestnut. He’s a better defender one on one than Smith and Lever. 

Omac is a spud, but he needs to come in for team balance to free Lever up.

Jetta for Lockhart is an obvious one, although I still think Lockhart is a player.

Not sure on Jones. There isn't really a place in the middle, and while there are a couple of half forwards who should come out of the side, we need to bring in a tall or 2 for team balance, and we also need the class of Bennell in place of VDB.

Anyway, we are a bees [censored] away from planning for 2021, so it's all becoming a bit irrelevant.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,843]

People will have a fit when we make only a few changes next week. 

In Weid, Bennell

Out, Melksham, Hunt

 

[whatwhat say what 22,143]

OUT: smith, melksham, hunt
IN: o mac, weid, bennell

it doesn't matter tho cos gc17 will run us of our feet - they execute quick ball movement and kicks on the 45, exactly the thing that our mids seem incapable of defending

we'll turn it over going forward of centre once again and watch it ping back over our head

[Jaded No More 67,644]

Just now, big_red_fire_engine said:

People will have a fit when we make only a few changes next week. 

In Weid, Bennell

Out, Melksham, Hunt

 

You don’t need wholesale changes. 
Those two changes alone will change the entire dynamic of our half forward play. 
I never was in favor of the wild axe swinging. How we made 5 changes after the non Essendon game is beyond me. 
But equally how we persevered with a team that got badly outplayed and could not score to save itself last week is just as baffling. 
We have to give ourselves opportunities to score because we win enough of the ball but we just waste it. We constantly kick to outnumbered forwards or directly to the opposition. Get some class kicking in Bennell and a second forward target that, at the very least can contest the aerial contest and bring ball to ground, and the long high slow bombs could even work once in a while. 

[Laughing Goat 308]

Out: Hunt, Smith, Lever, Pickett & Goodwin

In: Weid, Brown, ANB, O'Mac & Roos

 

[jumbo returns 6,703]

No Brown - please

Hunt will make way for Jones methinks

[binman 41,963]

38 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

OUT: smith, melksham, hunt
IN: o mac, weid, bennell

it doesn't matter tho cos gc17 will run us of our feet - they execute quick ball movement and kicks on the 45, exactly the thing that our mids seem incapable of defending

we'll turn it over going forward of centre once again and watch it ping back over our head

To quote the commentary on NBA 2K20, 'we've seen that movie a few times'

[The Chazz 4,077]

16 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

No Brown - please

Hunt will make way for Jones methinks

Because we are blessed with pace?

[DeeSpencer 24,753]

2 hours ago, Jaded said:

If the 132 coaches we have can’t between them put a brain cell together and bring in a second tall forward, I give up. 
 

And anyone who can justify the position of Melksham or Lockhart or Smith ahead of Jones, Jetta or OMac, I would love your explanation. 

Smith got caught out by one of the smartest forwards in the game with an eternity of time and space to work with to double and triple lead in to space. Still kept Riewoldt to 1 goal and far less influence than he normally has against us. And his one bad mistake with the ball came after Oliver for no good reason handballed to his toes. Given the season we are having why would we go back to Oscar who we've seen for years now is incredibly limited by lack of physical capabilities and lack of desire at the contest? Going taller and moving May or Hibberd up the ground might be an option but are the Suns the right match up?

Does Jetta have the run in the old legs to play on a back flank? Does Hibberd? It seems very much one or the other right now. Maybe Jetta comes in to the back pocket and Hibberd takes Lever's spot and we give Lever a week off. It's clear Lockhart and Rivers are struggling, but we also saw Hibberd struggle big time in round 1 and now he's staying deeper and getting more rest he's starting too look good. I'd say we try Jetta and Hibberd again but I'm very prepared for it not to work. I'd also note just how often Rivers and Lockhart are out running for the handballs and switches and not getting used but that's not going to change any time soon it seams. Chandler, Wagner (one last hurrah) and different mids through half back - Oliver, Gus, Vanders - have to be considered as well if the Jetta/Hibbo combination isn't up to it.

Melksham has to go, but his direct replacement should be a key forward given that was his role. If he's doing the defensive work then Bennell is the first in for the mid/forwards. Jones in a role that doesn't involve midfield time is just asking for failure IMO, the guy just doesn't tackle, the old legs struggle to find space and he lacks aerial ability or forward craft.

 

[Docs Demons 1,748]

7 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

Because we are blessed with pace?

No because Jones at least has a heart and most times disposes the ball correctly not like Hunt. This crap about pace is getting to me. Pace does not win games. It is what you do with the ball when you have it. You move the ball with precision and the whole team looks fast Hunt can run fast but just can't play. 

Unfortunately AT PRESENT we have 20-25 players on our list that are barely VFL standard so make what ever changes you want and it will make no difference. I would love to drop Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw due to their inability to drive forward. How many times do these guys win the ball and in lieu of moving forward lowering eyes to a leading player go back into congestion and in the end cough the pill up. I would hate being a forward in this team.

[Ham 741]

All these calls for Smith out and O Mac in....
People have really bad memories. 

[The Chazz 4,077]

1 minute ago, Docs Demons said:

No because Jones at least has a heart and most times disposes the ball correctly not like Hunt. This crap about pace is getting to me. Pace does not win games. It is what you do with the ball when you have it. You move the ball with precision and the whole team looks fast Hunt can run fast but just can't play. 

Unfortunately AT PRESENT we have 20-25 players on our list that are barely VFL standard so make what ever changes you want and it will make no difference. I would love to drop Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw due to their inability to drive forward. How many times do these guys win the ball and in lieu of moving forward lowering eyes to a leading player go back into congestion and in the end cough the pill up. I would hate being a forward in this team.

So you would hate being a forward in this team, but want Hunt dropped? How many times today was he asked to play deep forward because of the [censored] up game plan this clown has tried to implement?

We are coached by a nong who is ruining careers by the minute.

[DeeSpencer 24,753]

1 hour ago, Jaded said:

You don’t need wholesale changes. 
Those two changes alone will change the entire dynamic of our half forward play. 
I never was in favor of the wild axe swinging. How we made 5 changes after the non Essendon game is beyond me. 
But equally how we persevered with a team that got badly outplayed and could not score to save itself last week is just as baffling. 
We have to give ourselves opportunities to score because we win enough of the ball but we just waste it. We constantly kick to outnumbered forwards or directly to the opposition. Get some class kicking in Bennell and a second forward target that, at the very least can contest the aerial contest and bring ball to ground, and the long high slow bombs could even work once in a while. 

Agree on Bennell. But he was dropped because of the 2nd half against Carlton where our forwards didn't move or defend. Combined with the Eagles game and preseason we needed changes to get some defensive effort. Defensive effort was obvious against the Cats even if the structured leaked. Defensive effort was very good for most of today, just the ball use was abysmal.

I don't really agree on the need for a 2nd tall.

Tigers intercept marks:

Balta - 6
Higgins - 3
Vlastuin - 2
Caddy, Chol, Nank, Broad, Grimes - 1.

We didn't lose because we couldn't bring the ball to ground due to talls outmarking smalls. Tom McDonald's direct opponent was the one who took all the intercept marks! No other defender took more than 2.

We lost because we keep kicking it where our forward aren't!

A second tall could give another reference point to kick to, but right now it's not a reference point that our mids need but a new set of eyes and a compass. 

The good news is we should get a 2nd tall anyway because Melksham has to go and a 2nd tall will come in for him. 

[Deefensive Language 124]

Moving to the Sydney hub is an opportunity to shake things up. If we can't change the shoddy game plan, poor coaching and ineffective kicking, we can at least move around the magnets and keep the opposition thinking.

In: Jones, Weidemann, Bennell, Brown, Jetta, Sparrow

Out: Oliver, Melksham, Hunt, Rivers, Smith, Vandenberg

B:   Hibberd, May, Lever

HB:  Salem, T Mcdonald, Lockhart

?   Langdon, Petracca, Brayshaw

HF:   Jones, Weidemann, Bennell

FF:   Hannan, Brown, Fritsch

R:    Gawn, Harmes, Viney

IC:    Jetta, Sparrow, Pickett, Tomlinson

 

Oliver needs to be dropped. He can come back from this, but needs to be given a clear message and focus points to work mentally (hold the ball for longer to make a decision) before reclaiming his place. Send Harmes back into the middle and keep him there. He played some fantastic games in the guts last year when everything was turning to [censored]. Also, Sparrow's opportunity is now...he must surely be starting to get [censored] off at the lack of opportunities. He runs and tackles - let's see how far he can go.

Melksham's tackling numbers have been plummeting year by year. Against Richmond he was our experienced on the ground by games played. Not good enough. Also, when he does come back with an improved attitude, I'd consider giving him a run up the ground to reacquaint himself with the intensity he needs at the level. He's played plenty of minutes HB and on-ball in the past.

Hunt, Smith and VDB are giving us nothing. For Vanders I'm on the fence as to whether the game has passed him by or he has not had the continuity to develop solid match fitness.

I like Rivers but I don't think the team can carry both him and Lockhart at the moment. He'll benefit from a much more settled structure. Lockhart's preseason and Round 1 was strong and he deserves another chance (plus his kicking efficiency is over 80%). Like Oliver he needs some solid mentorship over the next few weeks to remember his role, to play to his strengths, and ensure he applies pressure to the forwards (tackle numbers low).

Time to bite the bullet and send TMac back. It's easy to forget how solid he was down there before the decision to swing him forward. Even then, he played 2017 as a swingman effectively. Watching him lumber around the forward line these last few weeks is bringing back memories of the sad failures of guys like Clark, Dawes, Fitzpatrick. Surely the experience of him and May combined will lead to some structure down there and free up Lever to show what he is capable of. If Lever still can't get his eye in and put himself in the right spots after that, then we have problems.

Jetta and Jones still have some good football to play. Jetta can defend and will put his body on the line, and Jones was still hitting targets in the F50 before getting dropped. Even if Jones only plays 65% of game time, his presence and experience is important to prevent complete capitulation. It's manic and crazy enough as it is at the moment.

Given the shambles we're dealing with now, it can't hurt to try Brown and Weid in the same forward line. Some people seem to think Brown is past it but I don't think that's fair. He positions well and makes plenty of contests. He also kicked 18 of his 21 goals in Essendon wins last year, (usually multiples) and given they just scraped into the finals that's a decent impact considering he was a fill in for Daniher. I feel he'd be a better match for Weidemann than TMac (the two of them get in each others' way). At least Brown is more accustomed to the role of second-tier forward.

Bennell played an OK first game and after all of the hoohaa about his comeback, the decision to drop him was a low blow. Let's back him to add some polish in the forward line with Pickett, who will benefit from more tall targets in the area. He needs a few games to settle in to AFL level.

[titan_uranus 24,619]

3 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Agree on Bennell. But he was dropped because of the 2nd half against Carlton where our forwards didn't move or defend. Combined with the Eagles game and preseason we needed changes to get some defensive effort. Defensive effort was obvious against the Cats even if the structured leaked. Defensive effort was very good for most of today, just the ball use was abysmal.

I don't really agree on the need for a 2nd tall.

Tigers intercept marks:

Balta - 6
Higgins - 3
Vlastuin - 2
Caddy, Chol, Nank, Broad, Grimes - 1.

We didn't lose because we couldn't bring the ball to ground due to talls outmarking smalls. Tom McDonald's direct opponent was the one who took all the intercept marks! No other defender took more than 2.

We lost because we keep kicking it where our forward aren't!

A second tall could give another reference point to kick to, but right now it's not a reference point that our mids need but a new set of eyes and a compass. 

The good news is we should get a 2nd tall anyway because Melksham has to go and a 2nd tall will come in for him. 

I agree with the general problem (kicking to the wrong spot) but IMO a second tall forward helps structure us up and should, if we do it right, ensure that there's someone in the 50 who can lead up at the ball carrier and take a mark, or bring it to ground. It will also take some pressure off Fritsch.

[spirit of norm smith 15,209]

3 hours ago, Action Jackson said:

I'd bring in Jetta and Weideman for Rivers & Vandenberg.

Melksham is lucky because he at least hit the scoreboard and we really don't have many other options.

During the off season I said I wanted Dan Butler and I think we missed a golden opportunity to inject additional leg speed.

I really feel our coaches and recruiting team overrate our existing players.

Oh and Bennell is a must have, likely for Hunt.

Many many on here were against Butler and rubbished anyone who thought we should grab him as a cheap draft pick.  Not laughing now.  

[goodwindees 2,379]

Very difficult team to play as a forward in, With atrocious supply from midfield, however, Hunt was clearly the most ineffective player on the field.

I like Rivers but he has had a taste and must now go back. His poor kick across field which resulted in a score against, plus his rookie mistake of not taking the body which resulted in a goal, just followed up his shocker against Geelong. 

I thought Tomlinson was our 3rd least effective player and is looking just like the plodder that many thought he was prior to his recruitment.

After those 3, I thought that there were some disappointing players, however, I think Lockhart is being played out of position and Viney whilst being so very poor with ball in hand really did battle away and despite some courageous selection calls, I can’t see him being dropped anytime soon.  

Out Rivers for O Mac

Out Hunt for Bennell

Out Tomlinson for Weideman

Out Lockhart for Nathan Jones (Providing Nathan is 100% fit & ready)

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by goodwindees

[DeeSpencer 24,753]

Backline: One more chance for Lever. Hopefully Hibbo has developed match fitness and keeps hitting his targets, slide him up to half back
Out: Rivers  In: Jetta
 
Mids: Tomlinson is a turnip. Just far too slow and ineffectual. Won't ever have the mobility or contested ability to keep up with Richmond or any other quick moving side. He's ok at the stoppages with the ball but can't pressure without it and he provides no drive and no aerial ability despite his size. Why don't we try Baker again? The shorter quarters should mean he only has to play in short bursts, he and Vanders can pretty much share a wing.
Out: Tomlison In: Baker
Out: Hunt  In:  Bennell

Forwards: Melk has to go, that opens a spot for a 2nd tall. May as well try Brown as he's more likely to hit the scoreboard from deep and Tom is actually doing ok across half forward the last two weeks. At least has some movement back. Time to try Viney at half forward coming up for stoppages and plenty of rotations from the mids and forwards.
Out: Melksham  In: Brown (vom)

FB: Jetta May  Smith
HB: Hibberd Lever  Salem
C; Langdon  Brayshaw  Baker
HF: Viney  McDonald  Petracca
FF: Fritsch  Brown Pickett
Foll: Gawn   Oliver Bennell
Int: Lockhart Vanders Harmes Hannan

[spirit of norm smith 15,209]

Jetta?? May. Smith 

Hibberd.  Lever. Salem. 

Langdon. Harmes.  Brayshaw. 

Bennell??. Tmcd. Hannan

Pickett. Weid??. Fritsch. 

Gawn Petracca Oliver 

Rivers Vandenburg Tomlinson Jones??

outs. Lockhart Hunt Viney Melksham 

emerg.  Sparrow Brown Anb 

Edited July 5, 2020 by spirit of norm smith
C