Brown’s career goals need to be placed in the context of his role at Essendon which was often as a link man. His best performance last season against Brisbane was 3 goals, 25 disposals, 11 marks and 10 score involvements. The bloke can play. And he can impact the scoreboard. He will never be the contested crash n bash forward that many are rightly crying out for, but given our obvious struggles down forward I’d have thought either he or Weid were a sure thing to come in. We saw what Brown can do in the pre season. He stunk it up in Round 1 but who didn’t?

I’m guessing the insistence on playing Jacko in the senior side may have something to do with them not seeing great developmental benefit in him playing scratch matches where we beat up on a bunch of Carlton no namers by 10 goals with 14 men a side. If true that has some merit. But winning needs to come first. 

Let’s just hope the forward line resembles something functional this week. It feels like a long time since we’ve seen that..

Edited June 19, 20204 yr by P-man

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

Because, as Chaplin has talked about, they're trying to develop the ruck part of his game specifically for the role of forward/ruck. Gawn didn't play in that game so they gave the majority of the ruck work to Weid to develop his ruck work.

...and what a poor decision that was.

We don't have a problem in the ruck.

We have a real problem with finding a key forward.

It would have made more sense to get Weid to work on one part of his game....as a forward would be my call.

...but then I'm only a fan, what would I know.

2 minutes ago, P-man said:

Brown’s career goals need to be placed in the context of his role at Essendon which was often as a link man. His best performance last season against Brisbane was 3 goals, 25 disposals. 11 marks and 10 score involvements. The bloke can play. And he can impact the scoreboard. He will never be the contested crash n bash forward that many are rightly crying out for, but given our obvious struggles down forward I’d have thought either he or Weid were a sure thing to come in. We saw what Brown can do in the pre season. He stunk it up in Round 1 but who didn’t?

I’m guessing the insistence on playing Jacko in the senior side may have something to do with them not seeing great developmental benefit in him playing scratch matches where we beat up on a bunch of Carlton no namers by 10 goals. If true that has some merit. But winning needs to come first. 

Let’s just hope the forward line resembles something functional this week. It feels like a long time since we’ve seen that..

That's the problem 'P-man'...

It should be Fritsch's role but they are playing him out of position.

He is one of our better kicks to position and is wasted playing deep where it is too easy for opposition players to take him off the ball.

We saw this with Howe, nice mark but only when he gets a run at it.

Howe had to go back to play his best football, Fritsch has the smarts that Jeremy doesn't and he will play his best as that floating/link up forward...

8 minutes ago, rjay said:

...and what a poor decision that was.

We don't have a problem in the ruck.

We have a real problem with finding a key forward.

It would have made more sense to get Weid to work on one part of his game....as a forward would be my call.

...but then I'm only a fan, what would I know.

Yes it’s becoming a big concern. We had high hopes for Hogan and Weideman to be our key forwards. Hogan is gone and now we can only hope the club puts faith in Weideman this year.  It’s amazing to think at 22yrs, he still needs development whilst Jackson is in ahead of him. Give the Weid 7-8 games to show what he can deliver. 
I think the Pies will be circling as they need to key forward with Cox injury prone and Ben Reid now well past it.  

14 minutes ago, rjay said:

...and what a poor decision that was.

We don't have a problem in the ruck.

We have a real problem with finding a key forward.

It would have made more sense to get Weid to work on one part of his game....as a forward would be my call.

...but then I'm only a fan, what would I know.

Mate, I agree. Personally I would rather have Tomlinson do backup ruck, bit like when we had Watts and Pedersen doing it, which gives us a different look and a bit more mobility and also means we still have 2 genuine targets forward.

Also, I think TMac is escaping a fair bit of attention in all this too. If he had form then we wouldn't be quite so worried about what's happening with the 2nd key forward role.

7 minutes ago, rjay said:

That's the problem 'P-man'...

It should be Fritsch's role but they are playing him out of position.

He is one of our better kicks to position and is wasted playing deep where it is too easy for opposition players to take him off the ball.

We saw this with Howe, nice mark but only when he gets a run at it.

Howe had to go back to play his best football, Fritsch has the smarts that Jeremy doesn't and he will play his best as that floating/link up forward...

I dunno rjay, I reckon we should play him as a defender... (jokes)

I agree to an extent. Fritz is a natural forward but kicking it on top of his head when it’s a 2 or sometimes 3 v 1 in the goalsquare isn’t doing him any favours. He also seems to have lost his shooting boots but I’m sure that will get rectified. Otherwise I agree we need to play him to his strengths. 

1 hour ago, rjay said:

...and what a poor decision that was.

We don't have a problem in the ruck.

We have a real problem with finding a key forward.

It would have made more sense to get Weid to work on one part of his game....as a forward would be my call.

...but then I'm only a fan, what would I know.

My idea is that if you get Weid doing some ruck work  each quarter he gets involved in the game and Is far more prepared on the forward line to compete and take marks.

He got 20 disposals plus hit outs the day in the Marsh Cup that Maxy missed vs Crows. Needs action to be forced when In  the ruck  and responds To this not waiting fir the ball and bound by 2/3 defenders. 

5 hours ago, Skuit said:

Career average is 0.96 actually. 

I'm pretty sure that there isn't a player on our list (other than Pickett in his one game) who averages a goal a game. On that basis Brown's 0.96 is pretty bloody good and it is hard to believe he isn't in the side.

As for Weideman, he should clearly be playing ahead of Jackson. I fully expect him to be at another club next year - if we're lucky we'll get a pick in the 50s for him. Every week he doesn't play drops his value further.

14 minutes ago, 58er said:

My idea is that if you get Weid doing some ruck work  each quarter he gets involved in the game and Is far more prepared on the forward line to compete and take marks.

He got 20 disposals plus hit outs the day in the Marsh Cup that Maxy missed vs Crows. Needs action to be forced when In  the ruck  and responds To this not waiting fir the ball and bound by 2/3 defenders. 

I reckon it's good for him to have a run in the ruck to breaks things up.

...but to play pretty much full time as a ruck in preseason games was just plain stupid.

If he's going to make it as a forward (and we desperately need him to), then he needs to learn his craft as a forward and not spend his time learning a role that he may do for 5 maybe 10 minutes a game.

I was a fan of Godwin's, but the patience is wearing thin...

His only skill seems to be good relations with the players and we know how that worked for Dean Bailey...

 

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

Also, I think TMac is escaping a fair bit of attention in all this too. If he had form then we wouldn't be quite so worried about what's happening with the 2nd key forward role.

Not from me he hasn't...

He would be the first one out of the team if I was selecting it.

They let him get away with rubbish form last year and he just thinks he needs to turn up to get a game now....

All Tom is giving us is promise of 2018...

5 hours ago, Ham said:

Weid has shown plenty more than T-Mac.
T-Mac is cooked and needs to go.

That's just it ......He hasn't

4 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

I really want Weid to work, but I think this season is his last opportunity to do so in the Red and Blue. I liken him a bit to Jack Watts, in the sense that there is a smoothness when he has the ball in his hand, but he isn't a beast of a competitor, and that in itself is ok, but maybe not suitable for what we need as a club. 

For mine he would work great in a tandem tall forward setup, without being the no.1. Whilst Tmac is struggling, there is urgency for Weid to impose himself physically more - and currently he isnt built for that, a couple of years time and he may well be.

From the outside, he doesn't appear to relish the physicality of a one on one or a pack situation, and I think for what the FD want, and what he needs, it may be best to seek alternate employment...sadly.

Astute post.

4 hours ago, faultydet said:

That's one of Weidemans problems.

He doesn't take contested marks.

 

4 hours ago, Neil Crompton said:

Besides Gawn, name one other of our players that does consistently take contested marks FD?

Agree he should, but he is not alone there by any means. 

So what you are saying is we are recruiting key forwards who struggle at one of the very aspects you would consider they need to carry out the role as a key forward?

43 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

 

So what you are saying is we are recruiting key forwards who struggle at one of the very aspects you would consider they need to carry out the role as a key forward?

This is why i struggle to understand modern training. 
forwards should be working on Pack Marks and crumbing the ball, as well as goal Kicking at Training. 
That is their job i would have thought!!

16 hours ago, JTR said:

How is it that many of the same people who criticise the club for gifting players games, are now getting into another tizzy when they don't? 

Demonland is so confusing sometimes.

Depends on the direction of the wind, can blow flakes everywhere

33 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

This is why i struggle to understand modern training. 
forwards should be working on Pack Marks and crumbing the ball, as well as goal Kicking at Training. 
That is their job i would have thought!!

So what you actually want is the ball bombed in and the forwards pack marking?

 

Just now, Satyriconhome said:

So what you actually want is the ball bombed in and the forwards pack marking?

 

It happens a lot in a game....

You can read...

 

The only way this thread could have become more chaotic would be if Jackson was dropped AND Weid wasn't brought in... oh... wait...

For what it is worth, I do see a case for the 'taste' given to a very new player, so they have an idea of what is really expected at the level.  Plus sometimes the kid responds to that environment and surges. But it has to be done carefully.  Not sure I'd want LJ to spend a game being hammered around by a tag-team of Hurley and Hooker, for example.  Who knows, maybe it was also decided that bringing in Weid with the certainty of being against one of those guys in his first game back would be unlikely to do much for his confidence, and that's why we decided to go for the magic kaleidoscope of medium forwards this week, just to see if we can mess with their system.

Fingers crossed McDonald is up to the job this week.  But hey, the guy has earned earned six brownlow votes and kicked 12 goals in his last five games, two of which he was the decisive matchwinner, so can't be ALL bad.  (But don't look at how he went in round three against the Bombers last year)

Is there anyone thinking about this set of problems who DOESN'T have a headache?

 

I have to believe that the FD has made the decision based on two things: they want Weids to be bashing down the door before they select him again and based on the expected conditions possibly being suited to a smaller/mid-sized forward line.

Might well be that the spot Sam takes is in fact TMac.

37 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It happens a lot in a game....

You can read...

 

Yes but a common complaint on here is for us to stop bombing it in, you are encouraging this practice?

The modern game has changed, seems coaches are actively trying to get one on one matchups

 

He has needed time to physically fill out and develop. He has a different body to Jackson, but plays somewhat similar in that he has a dip. A conservative approach shown with Weideman will preserve his career, and give us a longer window of a prime player. Things will work out fine. I don't expect Weideman to set the league on fire this year, but he should improve immensely to have his best year. Next year onwards should see him really progress into a dominant forward.

3 hours ago, poita said:

I'm pretty sure that there isn't a player on our list (other than Pickett in his one game) who averages a goal a game. On that basis Brown's 0.96 is pretty bloody good and it is hard to believe he isn't in the side.

As for Weideman, he should clearly be playing ahead of Jackson. I fully expect him to be at another club next year - if we're lucky we'll get a pick in the 50s for him. Every week he doesn't play drops his value further.

Cool. Let's run Brown and Weids as our two KPFs. 

24 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Yes but a common complaint on here is for us to stop bombing it in, you are encouraging this practice?

The modern game has changed, seems coaches are actively trying to get one on one matchups

 

I would like a key forward to take marks regularly. I don’t care how they do it, but  Key forwards always have more than one opponent so i would be practicing that mode

Edited June 19, 20204 yr by Sir Why You Little

Let me see.... About to turn 23 in  few days time, 195cms, 97kgs and has played 31 games to date. I have seen him play very well in finals and he looks to have  good engine and I think he knows how to play.

I would not worry about his future just yet. I think he will come good and play good consistent footy for us in the near future. A few years time and I see he and Jackson in our forward line.

11 hours ago, picket fence said:

Then why is T mac being gifted games??

Because his competition is Jackson and Weid.

Petty is one of the few players on the injury list but could easily threaten for the spot