TRAINING: Round 03

[Lord Nev 13,512]

6 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Nice chase down from Tracc, highlights his improved second efforts. But I have so many questions:

1. Why is he so far forward of the contest to begin with?
2. Why does Gawn let Bradtke out sprint him forward?
3. Why does Brayshaw (sans helmet?) blindly crash in to Oliver, and then after that he seems to drift towards the backline but not even pick up Bradtke on the way through to help Max out?
4. Why does Oliver - forced in to a 2 on 1 after Gus wipes out - initially do a good job of corralling both players and creating doubt in Wagner's (I think) mind then rush up on Wagner right when Tracc is closing in to make a tackle? If Oliver hovers for another step or two Tracc gets the initial tackle or Wagner kicks under pressure.
5. Why does Wagner not hit Jordon (I think) in stride with a regulation handball and why is Jordon thinking about anything else but turning and hitting a leading target. He knew he was free when he called for the ball, but suddenly he's looking to handball out wide to a covered winger?

That's a lot of criticism for a short little burst of play that ultimately ended well for the blue team, but if Wagner could handball and Jordon had confidence then 4/5ths of our starting mids have given up a decent kick inside 50. Shiel, McGrath and Merrett will have a field day on Sunday if that's the best we can do and Petracca isn't running down any of those guys with a big headstart.

 

Mate, it's training, maybe they were working on something in particular?

I'm as worried as you about our form and deficiencies, but this is maybe a little over the top for a 5 second clip from training.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Forgive me, MFM, as I mean this in jest, but i can't ignore the delicious irony...

you're not

 

Actually I used to be.  But that has nothing to do with doing everything perfectly.   It's to do with trying/wanting/expecting yourself to be perfect.

Trump is a perfectionist,  IMO.   He is also ignorant,  IMV.    And wrong so often, its ridiculous. 

But as narcissism goes,  He doesn't agree with me.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

1 hour ago, chook fowler said:

being a perfectionist is problematic if you are a dees supporter. Much healthier to be an imperfectionist.

I'm railing against perfectionism,  within the Melbourne stadium ground.

Then it can be inclusive, and we Dees might win some.

[DeeSpencer 24,756]

53 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Mate, it's training, maybe they were working on something in particular?

I'm as worried as you about our form and deficiencies, but this is maybe a little over the top for a 5 second clip from training.

I'm not suggesting every little thing I've highlighted is a huge issue. Petracca may have been working on an attacking clearance. Gawn's not exactly going to kill himself chasing a springy kid at training. But there's a few endemic problems we've had with our midfield being awful defensively (Brayshaw), our pressure game reliant on players rushing towards the ball rather than working together (Oliver) and our mids overusing it and making skill errors (the white team). We're not going to get any better if we can't sort out the basics.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

Just now, DeeSpencer said:

I'm not suggesting every little thing I've highlighted is a huge issue. Petracca may have been working on an attacking clearance. Gawn's not exactly going to kill himself chasing a springy kid at training. But there's a few endemic problems we've had with our midfield being awful defensively (Brayshaw), our pressure game reliant on players rushing towards the ball rather than working together (Oliver) and our mids overusing it and making skill errors (the white team). We're not going to get any better if we can't sort out the basics.

I might just add too, I didn't mean my post as a discouragement btw, I really appreciate the amount of work you put into your analysis posts, even if there's bits I don't agree with, you can't argue with the effort.

Without going to broad or in-depth, what's your thoughts on us going fully back to chaos ball ala 2018 style? Feels like that was our best footy and since we've tried to add the slow down game to it we've been lost in two minds.

 

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

23 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

I might just add too, I didn't mean my post as a discouragement btw, I really appreciate the amount of work you put into your analysis posts, even if there's bits I don't agree with, you can't argue with the effort.

Without going to broad or in-depth, what's your thoughts on us going fully back to chaos ball ala 2018 style?

Feels like that was our best footy and since we've tried to add the slow down game to it we've been lost in two minds.

 

I think weide be better at it now,  with the small players we've brought in.?

[DeeSpencer 24,756]

8 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

I might just add too, I didn't mean my post as a discouragement btw, I really appreciate the amount of work you put into your analysis posts, even if there's bits I don't agree with, you can't argue with the effort.

Without going to broad or in-depth, what's your thoughts on us going fully back to chaos ball ala 2018 style? Feels like that was our best footy and since we've tried to add the slow down game to it we've been lost in two minds.

 

We don't have forwards who can win one on ones so I'm pro moving the ball quickly and getting out in space. We have defenders who can win it back and our mids can thrive in fast paced contested games. A loose ball hacked in to the middle with Oliver and Petracca around and an open forward line is perfect.

But that entire style is reliant on a lot of pressure and it's not enough to just throw numbers at the footy to create that pressure, you have to  be disciplined as a team to cover off the outlets. Two experienced wingmen were a good start. Notice Langdon above plays it perfectly, covering his opponent whilst creating doubt in the player with the balls mind.

After Saturday's game there was a lot of bemoaning Joel Smith flying for contests where he should've stayed down, but I see our midfield and forward pressure as pretty much the same thing on a team wide scale. We leave open guys running free all the time and when we do get turnovers we struggle to capitalise as everyone is congested.

[640MD 3,321]

5 hours ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

IMO,  the problem is "Blame".    a negative way of judging.

Not critique perse,   because critique can be based in creativeness.

But blame is just that,  a critism of dead-end failure and lambasting.   No encouragement within it.

If there is a problem, look to fix the error, then there is no error or at east a lesser one.

to look to place blame is not good for anyone    sport or work or life

fix whats wrong    no problem then

 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

3 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

We don't have forwards who can win one on ones so I'm pro moving the ball quickly and getting out in space. We have defenders who can win it back and our mids can thrive in fast paced contested games. A loose ball hacked in to the middle with Oliver and Petracca around and an open forward line is perfect.

But that entire style is reliant on a lot of pressure and it's not enough to just throw numbers at the footy to create that pressure, you have to  be disciplined as a team to cover off the outlets. Two experienced wingmen were a good start. Notice Langdon above plays it perfectly, covering his opponent whilst creating doubt in the player with the balls mind.

After Saturday's game there was a lot of bemoaning Joel Smith flying for contests where he should've stayed down, but I see our midfield and forward pressure as pretty much the same thing on a team wide scale. We leave open guys running free all the time and when we do get turnovers we struggle to capitalise as everyone is congested.

Yep, I think to me the main thing I've noticed lacking since we added in that conservative element to our style was the spacing. Players just aren't running without the ball at the moment. It's all a bit stagnant and standing next to their man. Moving without the ball has always been my thing I bang on about and the thing I liked about the chaos ball was that it pretty much forced players to keep moving.

With our increased speed and ground coverage and our apparent much improved fitness it feels like the stage should be set for a bit of a throwback to the 2018 style.

 

[whatwhat say what 22,143]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Nice chase down from Tracc, highlights his improved second efforts. But I have so many questions:

1. Why is he so far forward of the contest to begin with?
2. Why does Gawn let Bradtke out sprint him forward?
3. Why does Brayshaw (sans helmet?) blindly crash in to Oliver, and then after that he seems to drift towards the backline but not even pick up Bradtke on the way through to help Max out?
4. Why does Oliver - forced in to a 2 on 1 after Gus wipes out - initially do a good job of corralling both players and creating doubt in Wagner's (I think) mind then rush up on Wagner right when Tracc is closing in to make a tackle? If Oliver hovers for another step or two Tracc gets the initial tackle or Wagner kicks under pressure.
5. Why does Wagner not hit Jordon (I think) in stride with a regulation handball and why is Jordon thinking about anything else but turning and hitting a leading target. He knew he was free when he called for the ball, but suddenly he's looking to handball out wide to a covered winger?

That's a lot of criticism for a short little burst of play that ultimately ended well for the blue team, but if Wagner could handball and Jordon had confidence then 4/5ths of our starting mids have given up a decent kick inside 50. Shiel, McGrath and Merrett will have a field day on Sunday if that's the best we can do and Petracca isn't running down any of those guys with a big headstart.

 

yep

one good bit of play - trac chase and tackle - for a lot of very poor in that 'highlight' clip

[binman 41,963]

11 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

 our apparent much improved fitness 

 

I had expected and hoped he we would come back as one of the fittest teams. I have to say i'm a bit concerned we looked like e ran out of gas on the weekend. Carlton seemed a lot fresher. As did the saints and suns in the two other games i watched (they were both really impressive i have to say)

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 minute ago, binman said:

I had expected and hoped he we would come back as one of the fittest teams. I have to say i'm a bit concerned we looked like e ran out of gas on the weekend. Carlton seemed a lot fresher. As did the saints and suns in the two other games i watched (they were both really impressive i have to say)

Thought the same. I know it's a different kettle of fish, but in the preseason games we did look pretty fit but so far in our two actual games we've seemed flat, so I wonder if it really is at least partly a mental thing? One thing to be able to run, another to be willing to.

Think I read here somewhere that someone heard one of the players post-game saying they had 'a bit left in the tank'. That's a pretty disappointing thing to hear after the lack of run we saw in the second half.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

32 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Thought the same. I know it's a different kettle of fish, but in the preseason games we did look pretty fit but so far in our two actual games we've seemed flat, so I wonder if it really is at least partly a mental thing? One thing to be able to run, another to be willing to.

Think I read here somewhere that someone heard one of the players post-game saying they had 'a bit left in the tank'. That's a pretty disappointing thing to hear after the lack of run we saw in the second half.

The training might have changed since pre season because the AFL has shortened Qtr lengths.   It might have impacted on us.

[picket fence 16,688]

8 hours ago, Dee Zephyr said:

Any luck sneaking down there picket ?

Righto I was there for about an hour

* TV Crews were there I think is it Clint Stanaway?? I think it was him was there

* I just parked the car and walked through open gate!!

* Ok one drill consisted of a Defensive positioning player, another player feeding the ball a potential tackle and kick to leading forward

* Jack Viney EXCELLED at this drill

* So to Mitch Hannan looked very good

* I still am mystified that in this drill many players having shots for goal from 30 M Missed!!?? Weeds noticeable

* Bennell Silky

* Max and Clarry with a Nev Jetta harrasment doing crunch break work in Centre

* Vanders looked very good but late was training with magoos crews Oscar, Wagners ET AL

* Rivers looked very good

* Jones appeared and disappeared at various times I wonder if he is carrying injury?

*  Interestingly players in centre circle Listening to Goody many on one knee, anyway thats it

* Kossy monty for ones!

* Weeds trained with a group of senior players after Most had left the track!

Thats it

Edited June 18, 2020 by picket fence

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,644]

13 hours ago, picket fence said:

Righto I was there for about an hour

* TV Crews were there I think is it Clint Stanaway?? I think it was him was there

* I just parked the car and walked through open gate!!

* Ok one drill consisted of a Defensive positioning player, another player feeding the ball a potential tackle and kick to leading forward

* Jack Viney EXCELLED at this drill

* So to Mitch Hannan looked very good

* I still am mystified that in this drill many players having shots for goal from 30 M Missed!!?? Weeds noticeable

* Bennell Silky

* Max and Clarry with a Nev Jetta harrasment doing crunch break work in Centre

* Vanders looked very good but late was training with magoos crews Oscar, Wagners ET AL

* Rivers looked very good

* Jones appeared and disappeared at various times I wonder if he is carrying injury?

*  Interestingly players in centre circle Listening to Goody many on one knee, anyway thats it

* Kossy monty for ones!

* Weeds trained with a group of senior players after Most had left the track!

Thats it

Good work, Picket. Much appreciated. And I see you've adopted Kevin Bartlett's radio commentary style where we know something is happening but not always involving whom.

[titan_uranus 24,620]

17 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Nice chase down from Tracc, highlights his improved second efforts. But I have so many questions:

1. Why is he so far forward of the contest to begin with?
2. Why does Gawn let Bradtke out sprint him forward?
3. Why does Brayshaw (sans helmet?) blindly crash in to Oliver, and then after that he seems to drift towards the backline but not even pick up Bradtke on the way through to help Max out?
4. Why does Oliver - forced in to a 2 on 1 after Gus wipes out - initially do a good job of corralling both players and creating doubt in Wagner's (I think) mind then rush up on Wagner right when Tracc is closing in to make a tackle? If Oliver hovers for another step or two Tracc gets the initial tackle or Wagner kicks under pressure.
5. Why does Wagner not hit Jordon (I think) in stride with a regulation handball and why is Jordon thinking about anything else but turning and hitting a leading target. He knew he was free when he called for the ball, but suddenly he's looking to handball out wide to a covered winger?

That's a lot of criticism for a short little burst of play that ultimately ended well for the blue team, but if Wagner could handball and Jordon had confidence then 4/5ths of our starting mids have given up a decent kick inside 50. Shiel, McGrath and Merrett will have a field day on Sunday if that's the best we can do and Petracca isn't running down any of those guys with a big headstart.

 

I reckon this is a massively overcooked analysis. You've got no idea of any context: what was going on before the clip started? It looks to me as though the blue team had the ball but turned it over, hence Petracca's positioning (he was running to create an option).

You say Gawn "let" Bradtke out sprint him. Maybe Gawn was exhausted from having run 100m previously whereas Bradtke had done nothing? Maybe Gawn is conserving energy for the game this weekend whilst Bradtke can leave it all on the track at training?

Drawing motherhood conclusions like "Essendon's midfield will have a field day" based on this tiny out of context clip is, IMO, absolutely ridiculous.

[DeeSpencer 24,756]

On 6/19/2020 at 9:20 AM, titan_uranus said:

I reckon this is a massively overcooked analysis. You've got no idea of any context: what was going on before the clip started? It looks to me as though the blue team had the ball but turned it over, hence Petracca's positioning (he was running to create an option).

You say Gawn "let" Bradtke out sprint him. Maybe Gawn was exhausted from having run 100m previously whereas Bradtke had done nothing? Maybe Gawn is conserving energy for the game this weekend whilst Bradtke can leave it all on the track at training?

Drawing motherhood conclusions like "Essendon's midfield will have a field day" based on this tiny out of context clip is, IMO, absolutely ridiculous.

Look at the set up and tell me it’s not a 99% chance it was a centre bounce. 
 

Gawn’s a pro so I’ll give him a break but otherwise our lazy poorly disciplined midfielders need to learn how to defend space away from the contest. That’s not based on one training it’s based on years of unaccountability.