I haven’t read this whole thread so apologies if i’m repeating what’s already been stated. 

One  of the biggest, game changing, attributes Gus seemed to possess in 2018 was his ability to work with Max at centre bounces. They were a formidable duo and between them turned games in dominant quarters. I remember thinking we had one of the best combos in the league there. Also, because he’s so comfortable on both sides of his body he is, without being quick, very evasive coming out of the middle. Enough with being tough in the clearance can we please put someone in there with a frikn brain. ie Gus

We have now next to NO cohesion at the bounce and regularaly get slaughtered there. Like we never had another set up to follow.  I cannot for the life of me understand why they’re not using him in this way. 

15 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

it was well documented over the off-season. 

Where?  

9 minutes ago, demonstone said:

Where?  

There's this search engine called Google on the internet. 

You can use it to find what you're looking for. 

Google doesn't have access to your imagination.

 

3 minutes ago, demonstone said:

Google doesn't have access to your imagination.

Give it time, Demonstone.

57 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Great post. 

To me, it seems we're a season or two behind making the right list management calls both to keep up with the changing game and to compliment and add to our strengths. 

The fact that we've seen more meaningful change at a coaching and FD level, with little return in onfield performance since our exciting 2018 finals is concerning to say the least. 

And now, everyone is questioning Goodwin's worth. Including players. Players like Oliver, who if decides to leave, will be catastrophic from a Melbourne branding pov. 

Roos must be rolling his eyes at some of the list management and positional change decisions Goodwin is making.

Angus Brayshaw is an inside midfielder who came third in a [censored] brownlow after a year of playing there. What the hell is going on?

As far as I'm concerned, Brayshaw, Viney and Oliver should be our starting mids with Trac and Kosi starting forward and rolling through the middle. 

The wing position is more important than ever this year with the new man on the mark rule. Langdon has been huge for us and I simply can't understand why we haven't brought another one in or at the very least given Oscar Baker the chance to make it his own. Baker was no worse than Harmes or Jones in the practice game against the dogs and I actually thought he was really good against Richmond. What have we got to lose? 

Gus simply has to be playing in the guts. He is being absolutely wasted on a wing. Unbelievable. 

 

Oh, so your proof source is based on heresay. 

Haha, I guess everything you've learnt in your life is then also false? 

I don't care that the happy-go-luckies are in denial with this stuff. 

22 minutes ago, demonstone said:

Google doesn't have access to your imagination.

 

You don't know Google very well then! 

2 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Haha, I guess everything you've learnt in your life is then also false? 

Possibly, but I am not trying to convince you something is true. I believe when the facts are irrefutable until then I am sceptical.

Hawthorn is rebuilding its list after 3 flags in 13 14 15.We're supposed to be atleast 3 years ahead with our list and development.

Good chance Hawthorn passes us this year and wins a flag or two this decade.

They always do.

1 hour ago, Lampers said:

I still think a list management trick was missed and there’s a danger of Dom Tyson-ing Brayshaw as I don’t think wing suits his best qualities and could end up destroying any trade value and also Brayshaw’s engagement.

Taking emotion out of it, I thought one of Viney or Brayshaw should’ve gone at the end of last year as we have one too many frontline quality inside midfielders. Yes there is injury history with Viney and Brayshaw, but with Sparrow and Jordon waiting in the wings surely there was enough depth to let the surplus player that could get good value in return and try to use that value to fill a  more immediate need.

Viney would’ve fetched us a mid 2nd round pick or if we were really luck an end of first round pick. So at best 25ish, and possibly 35 in a draft that was basically a guess after the top picks. I’m sure the club considered moving Viney but to take a loss on a vice captain when you’ve got a decent list would’ve been a huge call.

There’s been trade rumours with Gus over the last 2 years. What team was going to give a good pick for a guy without a position, with a history of concussions, a lisfranc injury  and on 700k for 2 more years? I’m sure we tried to package him off to Freo but look at their midfield, why would they bother?

Gus’ value was most likely the same as Tom Phillips. Ie. close to nothing. 

Unfortunately players who have career best seasons then struggle as the game shifts away from their style end up with little value. He’s already in the Tyson zone, he has been since the end of 2019. It’s better off trying to develop his game back up. 

2 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Possibly, but I am not trying to convince you something is true. I believe when the facts are irrefutable until then I am sceptical.

Well you must have a terribly hard time deciphering what is true or false on a day to day, hour to hour basis and for that, I'm sorry for you. 

1 hour ago, JimmyGadson said:

And now, everyone is questioning Goodwin's worth. Including players. Players like Oliver, who if decides to leave, will be catastrophic from a Melbourne branding pov. 

Roos must be rolling his eyes at some of the list management and positional change decisions Goodwin is making.

 

You're on record saying Lever and May won the game for us on the weekend and that Langdon is a great pick-up, but you think our list management is no good?

If you wanted to see a massive player exit - you would have if Roos had stayed on in 2017.

Brayshaw was good on the wing against the Dockers - Yze has brought some new ideas to the midfield and it appears that Goodwin is give him plenty of rope to try them.

7 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

I don't care that the happy-go-luckies are in denial with this stuff. 

Good luck.

Got howled down last year when I said that Oliver was 100% assessing his options and the Carlton talk was real. We're Melbourne going to trade him if he requested a trade? No.. its laughable how many refuse to take the red and blue glasses off

Oliver at the time was impatient and wants finals success and missing last year was nearly the final nail in the coffin. It a took a Goodwin and Yze chat to bring him back down a level.

Having known Oliver since working with him at the Bushies, you start to make great connections with his family and close friends and that's where you hear the noise.

I am not sure whether he is any close to re-signing or not, but if we get to the mid year bye and we aren't in the top 8 and he hasn't signed on then I'll be worried.

I agree with all those posters stating that Brayshaw should be played in the midfield. 

Unfortunately his development and effectiveness has been hindered by injury, both concussion and foot. You also get the feeling that these injuries will remain a hindrance to his game. 

I thought he was serviceable on Sat. However, he plays like someone who is not sure where he should be, in other words, uncertain of his role. At times, this appears on the field as a player not fully committed to the contest. Just my take. I fear that unless he plays in the midfield, his game will suffer and his effectiveness will decline. He may remain serviceable but he will not be the star that we hoped for. 

I like him but I would like to watch the player he could be. 

1 hour ago, JimmyGadson said:

Great post. 

To me, it seems we're a season or two behind making the right list management calls both to keep up with the changing game and to compliment and add to our strengths. 

The fact that we've seen more meaningful change at a coaching and FD level, with little return in onfield performance since our exciting 2018 finals is concerning to say the least. 

And now, everyone is questioning Goodwin's worth. Including players. Players like Oliver, who if decides to leave, will be catastrophic from a Melbourne branding pov. 

Roos must be rolling his eyes at some of the list management and positional change decisions Goodwin is making.

Angus Brayshaw is an inside midfielder who came third in a [censored] brownlow after a year of playing there. What the hell is going on?

As far as I'm concerned, Brayshaw, Viney and Oliver should be our starting mids with Trac and Kosi starting forward and rolling through the middle. 

The wing position is more important than ever this year with the new man on the mark rule. Langdon has been huge for us and I simply can't understand why we haven't brought another one in or at the very least given Oscar Baker the chance to make it his own. Baker was no worse than Harmes or Jones in the practice game against the dogs and I actually thought he was really good against Richmond. What have we got to lose? 

Gus simply has to be playing in the guts. He is being absolutely wasted on a wing. Unbelievable. 

 

This is spot on, If we fail to make finals and Oliver leaves us for one of the big clubs it would be the final nail in the melbourne supporting coffin for me, and I wouldn't be the only one. 

 

 

 

 

 

I’m not trying to discredit what other people have heard, but the problem with the Oliver rumours is that it just doesn’t add up. If he’s chasing success, why the hell would he want to go to Carlton? What have they shown that indicates they will be more successful than us? One thing’s for sure, we’ve shown much more than they have. 

11 minutes ago, nacnud said:

I’m not trying to discredit what other people have heard, but the problem with the Oliver rumours is that it just doesn’t add up. If he’s chasing success, why the hell would he want to go to Carlton? What have they shown that indicates they will be more successful than us? One thing’s for sure, we’ve shown much more than they have. 

He obviously sees their list being far more capable then ours at the time. What you may see,  may be different to his own point of view. Personally I like the way Carlton are building their list.

Just like Steven May picked Melbourne over Collingwood when deciding back at the 2018 trade period. What have we shown over the past years to say we've had success over Collingwood?

Edited March 25, 20214 yr by dazzledavey36

18 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

You're on record saying Lever and May won the game for us on the weekend and that Langdon is a great pick-up, but you think our list management is no good?

If you wanted to see a massive player exit - you would have if Roos had stayed on in 2017.

Brayshaw was good on the wing against the Dockers - Yze has brought some new ideas to the midfield and it appears that Goodwin is give him plenty of rope to try them.

Pollyana, formerly fifty-five right? 

I've always assumed you're one of the older breed of demon supporters on here. Rhino Richards your right hand man. Binman along side both. Baghdad bob bringing up the rear. Ready to jump on me anytime you think I've fallen into the trap of contradiction.. Or for the fact that I have been questioning this club's decisions time and time again, rightfully due to its mediocrity. 

I could write a book on where I think we've gone wrong since 2018 and what I'd have done to add and compliment our list immediately. 

The addition of Lever and May have been great. Langdon has exceeded my expectations but all should have been targeted earlier. We've been slow to make change, that's we're we've failed. 

Lever was never going to be able to perform to the level he did at Adelaide with Oscar and Frost as his support. I called that from the beginning. Lever played in a system with Talia and Hartigan. Two mature, big bodied defenders who allowed Lever to bring his elite level intercept game every week. Obviously the fact he did his ACL didn't help his ability to get continuity together with our back five back then. 

In 2018 we were playing Dom Tyson, Nathan Jones, Harmes and Vandenberg on the wings. Our downfall in games even back then was that we had so many similar types being naturally drawn to the contest, slow to react, questionable skills and decision making. What has changed significantly since? We've added Langdon. One player with a point of difference who has been a welcome addition. But again, why did it take so long to target a wingman. I'm not the only one who was up in arms about it back then. And why have we not addressed that area further? It's 2021 and we're still playing inside mids on wings. 

And no, Brayshaw wasn't good on the wing against Freo. He had just a game. 18 possies, 9 of which were handballs at only 60%. Four turnovers. I don't know what you were watching. He came third in a brownlow playing in a position he's played his whole life. 

Then there's the small forward issue. We have a ripper in Kosi. But why the hell did it take so long for us to target one when we've been needing one since 2018 also? 

The list management team work on the back of what type of players Goodwin wants to fit his game style and plan. They've made questionable decisions at best and the ones they have got right have come a seasons too late. 

Take a look at what St Kilda have done over the course of a couple of years to completely rejuvenate their list post Richardson. I understand it's not feasible to bring in the quality of Lever, May, Brown and Langdon over the course of a year. But we could have easily brought in stop-gap players who possessed attributes we needed. Attributes and strengths that would allow for others to play their natural game. 

The saints have done it with a lot of recycled goods whilst maintaining their high end talent. 

The dogs have similarly done that whilst retaining their elite players. 

And now we're seeing sides that should be further behind us in development leapfrogging us or gaining ground. Brisbane, freo, Carlton etc.

Goodwin is stubborn. And we had an exodus of coaches go because of it. 

He has one season to right the ship or Perty can kiss goodbye all the plans he has of making us a powerhouse. 

If he has learnt anything in his short time with us, it'll be that Melbourne supporters are sick to death of talk, rebuilds, "heading in the right direction", ad nauseam... 

I’ve no axe to grind with Gus but for mine he was the obvious inside mid to offer up for trade last year. Viney has his flaws but he's been a good leader over the journey. Unless a player is naturally versatile then trying to convert them rarely works. Gus is an inside mid. Just play him there or else cut him loose.

I reckon their trade value was similar. If we had swapped out Brayshaw and brought in Phillips we would be well ahead imv. Missed opportunity.

11 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

He obviously sees their list being far more capable then ours at the time. What you may see,  may be different to his own point of view. Personally I like the way Carlton are building their list.

Just like Steven May picked Melbourne over Collingwood when deciding back at the 2018 trade period. What have we shown over the past years to say we've had success over Collingwood?

Fair enough mate. I just reckon a midfield with Petracca and Oliver alone beats Carlton’s complete midfield any day, so why wouldn’t he want to stay at Melbourne since he bears some responsibility for the team’s performances? But I see your point,  Oliver could think that he’s the missing piece to Carlton’s midfield puzzle which could take them to finals. 

IMO Oliver leaving for Carlton would be linked to the possibility of Cripps heading to WA.

And Oliver would be leaving for money.

6 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

IMO Oliver leaving for Carlton would be linked to the possibility of Cripps heading to WA.

And Oliver would be leaving for money.

I would have serious trouble having any interest in AFL if Clarry plays in a Carlscum jumper. It will mean we are never going to retain the right players to win a Flag

I put the Club on notice...

10 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

IMO Oliver leaving for Carlton would be linked to the possibility of Cripps heading to WA.

And Oliver would be leaving for money.

Oliver's not a free agent so I would be fascinated what Carlton could offer us in return, or any club for that matter.

Oliver's a once in a generation midfielder at our club and it would be an absolute disaster to lose him. And Trac will be out the door when he hits free agency at the end of next year if we miss finals once again.