POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Carlton

[Pates 9,660]

Ok 24hrs later here are some of my reflections:

For once when we got out of the blocks well we put it on the scoreboard, the first quarter won us the game. I wonder how we would feel if the worm was reversed, first 3 quarters awful and run them down. Ultimately we were in front at the final siren. 

Seeing Bennell get through the game was a massive positive, the little things he did were good and he was silky. He’ll get better and hopefully lift the team around him. 

He didn’t have a great game but Clarry is one of the few that could claim to have remained in the contest when we dropped, we needed more like him. 

It was still a typical Petracca game of one blistering quarter, one good quarter, and 2 quarters that had good little bursts. He’s still yet to put together a complete game, but in this instance it was because he got tagged and that goal in the third quarter was massive. 

What is troubling was how the players responded when Carlton inevitable rise in intensity came. We went into our shells and played conservatively, we looked like we were trying to hold onto a lead in the last quarter rather than win it. Where’s the killer instinct?

I’m not going to be too critical of him in his second game as captain but it seemed to follow him, when they started breaking even in the ruck contest the Carlton on ballers lifted. 

Biggest worry is our forward line, I feel like we have the weapons but we don’t know how to use them. Tommy Mac though....yeesh I just don’t know what to think anymore. I’m starting to think to get him into games he has to be changed in his role to a mobile athletic forward that is leading his player all over the ground because as a target inside 50 he’s doing very little. But that leaves us short deeper. I know some people had good feels about Jackson in the forward line, it just didn’t seem to work for me. I want them to give Weids another shot. 

I have more musings such as how awful we were from kick ins, but I’ll leave it to that for now. We got the win, that’s what ultimately matters. 

[buck_nekkid 5,919]

Now is when Ricoh earns his money.  To review the game with Goody, challenging him around his decisions, other options, methods and communication.  If Goody is to get better, he needs someone like Richo to challenge his process.  He should also be challenging the players as they review their performance.

[Jaded No More 68,967]

We looked exhausted after quarter time. What happened to our fitness being great again? 
 

Once again when the opposition put pressure on our ball carriers we fell apart. This is an issue that has plagued us for a long time and yet nothing has improved. Same goes for our ball use off half back and going inside 50. 
 

The sharp drop off in our clearance work was also very worrying. I expected it to balance up, but they smashed us in the 3 quarters that followed our fast start. Even without a ruckman. 
 

Our leadership vacuum continues. We still have no leaders. Gawn is wonderful. But where was the passion? We were losing grip of the game and Gawn, Viney, Jones, Jetta, Tmac... all the guys I expect to stand up did nothing. Trac was the only player who actually stood up. 
 

If we played any other team yesterday, we would have lost by 6 goals. 

[Fat Tony 5,258]

Great to get the win and our first quarter was exceptional. The rest of the game, however, was pretty concerning.

Our game plan is about pressure and this is clearly only sustainable for part of the game. Once we lost our dominance in the midfield our game plan is flawed. We hardly ever switch in the back half and need to chip the ball around more when it is a slow play. 

I think have a few structural issues with our side that can be fixed.

Firstly, we would be better with just Lever and May as tall defenders. We often have three up in the contest and that is partly chemistry but it is also the players in defence and their mindset. I think we should play a smaller defence and rely on Gawn helping out. Lever and May need to earn their money and beat the key forwards.

Secondly, Jones would be much better suited to half back. There he and Salem can play a quarterback role. 
I am a fan of Smith given his athleticism but I think he would be better as a forward. 

Thirdly, we need to have more rotations through the midfield to keep the heat on. Melksham, Jones, Bennell, ANB and Harmes need to get a few more minutes inside.

Jackson was ok but is not ready yet. Weideman would give us more of a target and we need that given TMac’s form regression. 

Rivers looks a great pickup. 

It will be hard to find a spot for Pickett next week given the form of ANB and Hunt. 

Bennell was ok and composed but a fair way off in terms of intensity. Maybe he gets a rest next week. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, 640MD said:

I think I would perhaps look at swapping Tmac and Smith  rather than May.  I am Not a coach though

We are both sitting here typing for a reason i guess 640.  When i think of Smith, yes forward seems better but i haven't seen alot so far to suggest he will be a regular starter in our best 22 as a forward.  Petty has impressed me a little more at times tbh.  Albeit the sample size is too small to lock him in as a genuine alternative either at this point.  We are presently bereft of a genuine KF marking/goaling talent aside from Tracc who is not really designed/designated to play a genuine KF role (full time anyway).

[Half forward flank 1,022]

1 minute ago, Rusty Nails said:

We are both sitting here typing for a reason i guess 640.  When i think of Smith, yes forward seems better but i haven't seen alot so far to suggest he will be a regular starter in our best 22 as a forward.  Petty has impressed me a little more at times tbh.  Albeit the sample size is too small to lock him in as a genuine alternative either at this point.  We are presently bereft of a genuine KF marking/goaling talent aside from Tracc who is not really designed/designated to play a genuine KF role (full time anyway).

We do not have a lock for any key forward or back position.  Happy to be convinced otherwise but that is how I see it.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

19 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

We do not have a lock for any key forward or back position.  Happy to be convinced otherwise but that is how I see it.

No arguments from me on that one HFF.  Apart from Maxy our spine seems pretty flakey at this point.

[640MD 3,384]

30 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Great to get the win and our first quarter was exceptional. The rest of the game, however, 

Jackson was ok but 

Rivers looks a great pickup. 

It will be hard to find a spot for Pickett next week given the form of ANB and Hunt. 

Bennell was ok and composed but a fair way off in terms of intensity. Maybe he gets a rest next week. 

Think we need to play all these guys jackson for his future,

rivers for ability and his future

ANB and Hunt to prove if you persist and put in you get rewarded 

and I think all of the above for Bennell, he will only get better 

Ins.    No idea         perhaps OMac 

Outs.  No idea 

glad no one takes my opinions as gospel!!

we do need to play for 4 quarters though 

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

47 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Great to get the win and our first quarter was exceptional. The rest of the game, however, was pretty concerning.

Our game plan is about pressure and this is clearly only sustainable for part of the game. Once we lost our dominance in the midfield our game plan is flawed. We hardly ever switch in the back half and need to chip the ball around more when it is a slow play. 

I think have a few structural issues with our side that can be fixed.

Firstly, we would be better with just Lever and May as tall defenders. We often have three up in the contest and that is partly chemistry but it is also the players in defence and their mindset. I think we should play a smaller defence and rely on Gawn helping out. Lever and May need to earn their money and beat the key forwards.

Secondly, Jones would be much better suited to half back. There he and Salem can play a quarterback role. 
I am a fan of Smith given his athleticism but I think he would be better as a forward. 

Thirdly, we need to have more rotations through the midfield to keep the heat on. Melksham, Jones, Bennell, ANB and Harmes need to get a few more minutes inside.

Jackson was ok but is not ready yet. Weideman would give us more of a target and we need that given TMac’s form regression. 

Rivers looks a great pickup. 

It will be hard to find a spot for Pickett next week given the form of ANB and Hunt. 

Bennell was ok and composed but a fair way off in terms of intensity. Maybe he gets a rest next week. 

This ...this...and this. Spot on

[John Demonic 5,819]

I don't want to start a thread, but this question is for those who have heard all our players talk and watched them play.

Which players, and how many of our players possess a good tactical knowledge of the game? Of structures? That know where we're breaking down mid quarter and communicate it to the more inexperienced? They don't have to be Luke Hodge on ch7 explaining everything that's going on, as he has an elite understanding. But something approaching that kind of logical way of thinking. Do we have a dearth of these types?

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by John Demonic
Spelling

[Bay Riffin 1,478]

1 hour ago, Pates said:

Ok 24hrs later here are some of my reflections:

For once when we got out of the blocks well we put it on the scoreboard, the first quarter won us the game. I wonder how we would feel if the worm was reversed, first 3 quarters awful and run them down. Ultimately we were in front at the final siren. 

Seeing Bennell get through the game was a massive positive, the little things he did were good and he was silky. He’ll get better and hopefully lift the team around him. 

He didn’t have a great game but Clarry is one of the few that could claim to have remained in the contest when we dropped, we needed more like him. 

It was still a typical Petracca game of one blistering quarter, one good quarter, and 2 quarters that had good little bursts. He’s still yet to put together a complete game, but in this instance it was because he got tagged and that goal in the third quarter was massive. 

What is troubling was how the players responded when Carlton inevitable rise in intensity came. We went into our shells and played conservatively, we looked like we were trying to hold onto a lead in the last quarter rather than win it. Where’s the killer instinct?

I’m not going to be too critical of him in his second game as captain but it seemed to follow him, when they started breaking even in the ruck contest the Carlton on ballers lifted. 

Biggest worry is our forward line, I feel like we have the weapons but we don’t know how to use them. Tommy Mac though....yeesh I just don’t know what to think anymore. I’m starting to think to get him into games he has to be changed in his role to a mobile athletic forward that is leading his player all over the ground because as a target inside 50 he’s doing very little. But that leaves us short deeper. I know some people had good feels about Jackson in the forward line, it just didn’t seem to work for me. I want them to give Weids another shot. 

I have more musings such as how awful we were from kick ins, but I’ll leave it to that for now. We got the win, that’s what ultimately matters. 

Wow. I’d give petracca (bog) and clarify votes. Clarry head to head with cripps first hal and won convincingly. 

[640MD 3,384]

49 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

We are both sitting here typing for a reason 

Your right, keyboard warriors in this league at least. Tried hard in mine but never great. 
still I was disappointed in round one against the eagles, just expected more and ditto yesterday just expected more from players and coaches. Without being particular. Hope it all improves!!

[jnrmac 20,109]

2 hours ago, don't make me angry said:

Sorry f head, never been positive after 10 goals loss not even a 1 point loss, never pat anyone in the back for trying hard, there is no try there is only win or lose. Find any post where I am happy  with a loss always happy with any win. Poster like you make me sick, you are the terrible supporters Roos was talking about, the Vail of negativity that's no help to no one. If I see another negative post from you after a good win I will spew up,. Not that last night is a good win, but that never matters to you, you  are negativity whether it's 10 goal win or a 1 point win.

F head. Very mature of you. are you 12?

 suggest you find out where the block button is petal 

Go Melbourne. You tried

Doesn't cut it for me. They're the laziest footballers going around and they  deserve to be called out as do spineless supporters

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

7 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

I've just watched the final two minutes again (here).

It starts with Carlton bringing the ball back after Fritsch's miss. Our zone is woeful. Jones and Brayshaw are guarding space leaving Fritsch to defend three Blues. Docherty's poor handpass stops them getting it out.

Then Salem kicks to Melksham who can't get the ball over the line, it comes back to Salem who gets crunched, and when Carlton get possession you hear Garry Lyon say "oh, they're out". Why? Because we've pushed our defensive zone so far up the ground that we've left space out the back.

Walsh's kick to Mackay is Melbourne-esque and Jetta gets the free. He looks to go down the line, Viney and Hunt are open near the boundary, but I think (and maybe I'm being generous here) he mis-kicks it so it goes in board. Still, Petracca is there to take the uncontested mark, but fluffs it (maybe his only mistake all day, to be fair). Ball gets back to Walsh who, MFC-esque again, fails to see Casboult on his own and kicks it straight to Lever.

Lever then, correctly, looks down the other wing which is where he should be kicking it. No one leads there other than Fritsch. Meanwhile Joel Smith is standing in the goalsquare telling everyone to pause. Most of our forwards/mids are stuck on the other side of the ground and appear too tired or unwilling to get across to help Lever (Brayshaw is, again, in no-man's land).

Lever is forced to kick to the 2-on-1 but the Carlton player runs under the ball and we're able to clear. Langdon and Tomlinson gut run into the 50 to give us options and that's enough time off the clock to win.

One poor kick (Jetta's, but possibly a mis-kick rather than a bad choice) but the poor defensive positioning and lack of running was a bigger problem.

I got PTSD just reading that.

[John Demonic 5,819]

4 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I got PTSD just reading that.

I reckon id prefer to just read @titan_uranus do a full write up of all 94 mins than to watch it on telly live.

Edited June 14, 2020 by John Demonic

[manny100 1,573]

Have to bring in Kossi for extra speed and defensive pressure. He is already the most skilled on our list for  of repeat front and square. Weid probably comes in for Jackson although Jackson was ok for his first game. May even be given another game.

Brown is a break glass in case of emergency player and that does happen but not just now.

Bit of a cheek though dropping players with our win/loss ratio - haha. We are getting cocky already!!!

Edited June 14, 2020 by manny100

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

20 hours ago, Dees2014 said:

The most important thing out of this game is that we won. It could be incredibly important come September/October. 
 

There are however a number of things which mystify me:

1. Why are Jones and TMac so seriously out of form? We cannot afford that to happen again, particularly against better opposition. I would drop both of them and bring in Weid and Kossie. 
2. Why do we take the accelerator off after the first quarter? This is in stark contrast to 2018 when we buried most sides in the competition. I hate to say it, but l think we seriously miss that competitive beast Jessie Hogan. We also have several of our young midfield stars Brayshaw and Oliver below their best, which has considerably lessened our ability to put away sides. Are they getting too comfortable?
3. When are we going to capitalise on Max’s superiority? See 2 above. 

We still have the ingredients of a top four side, but we will need to start showing it rapidly so that this short season does not rapidly become yet another wasted year. 
 

it is a worry...

1. Not out of form but the game is possibly past them.

2. Maybe they are just one dimensional? Neither of them can kick particularly well. Just good in the contest. They are both turnover kings on foot. Frosty just diverted attention away from them.
 

3. Stoppage needs work. I have to say that Gawn was worked over nicely by Pinochet after the 1st quarter.. that is more worrying if you ask me. His second and third efforts were inspiring.

We were 200+ pressure points in Q1 which is why we were so successful in 2018. What happened after that is mystifying given we were supposedly the fittest team in the afl according to some. Maybe we just don’t have the cattle or the right balance of cattle to play that game style. If we can play with that intensity for 4Q then we are a force to be reckoned with...

 

[Pates 9,660]

1 hour ago, Bay Riffin said:

Wow. I’d give petracca (bog) and clarify votes. Clarry head to head with cripps first hal and won convincingly. 

Both still had good games, probably harsh for me to say Clarry didn’t have a good game, I only meant I didn’t feel his possessions were effective or damaging. But he did have a good game. 

Trac also would be in the votes, might even go so far to say BOG in that his first quarter was so good it set us up and what he did the rest of the game was good. But it was still very much like his previous seasons in that he wasn’t able to maintain a high level the whole time (few can). 
 

EDIT I am also holding them to a higher standard because they are ultimately two that the club will be depending on becoming more than just good players. They need to be in the conversation for top 10 in the league for us to be anything. 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Pates

[titan_uranus 25,020]

5 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Well, gotta say you have no idea. Hogan was a star who made defenders nervous with his talent and allowed McDonald to play second fiddle.  If you think Lever is a major improvement on Frost or McDonald, well good for you. Could not care less. 

Hogan was a star. Who wanted to leave. So we took the best we could get for him and turned him into a key defender. After a year in which we'd been the highest scoring side but leaked goals and had Frost and OMac struggling to hold down the key defensive positions.

Could not care less about, what, someone having a different opinion to you? 

1 hour ago, John Demonic said:

I reckon id prefer to just read @titan_uranus do a full write up of all 94 mins than to watch it on telly live.

It was hard enough covering 2 minutes. No way anyone could do that to themselves for 94.

[BAMF 4,360]

On 6/13/2020 at 10:50 PM, binman said:

A HEALTH WARNING:

If you, in any way, do not rate Simon Goodwin as a coach, and/or get annoyed at his tendency to speak in cliches and buzz words ('lots of leanings from this game', the players want to win, credit to the opposition) or even get mildly irritated by his upbeat post game vibe or peculiar smirks when we have played poorly:

DO NOT WATCH THE POST GAME PRESS CONFERENCE!

You have been warned.

I took the bait.

Goodwin gives the impression that we are still a young team who have no chance of winning a premiership and are still in development mode.

[Go the Biff 3,435]

5 minutes ago, BAMF said:

I took the bait.

Goodwin gives the impression that we are still a young team who have no chance of winning a premiership and are still in development mode.

In a way that's the case. There is a bit of transitioning going on which was reflected in the selections this week. I believe our backline is already copping a makeover & is likely to end the season or start next season with :
Lever   May    Lockhart
Salem  Petty   Rivers

so a few old warriors & a some NQR's will be outside the 22. Hibbo has already been overtaken, sadly I suspect Nev will be as well, Smith just won't make the grade & OMac wil be surplus. Plus Lewis from 2019 gorrn as well. It's a fair turnover

[Pates 9,660]

Something I wanted to add, Harmes in defence is failing. He was an attacking, valuable midfielder and now he’s been turned into a useless Half back who has little influence on the game. If it’s because Brayshaw is already there, then drop Brayshaw and bring in Hibberd. 

Brayshaw has been poor two weeks in a row, his free ride is over. Drop him to regain some form in the scratch match, Harmes takes his place and they compete for that last midfield spot. 

[58er 6,461]

9 hours ago, Rocky said:

you can't be too bloody nervous if you keep going for speccies! just completely out of his depth. no game sense. 

Smith knows no other way !

Snd that's why he doesn't fit into our "All fly At  once" Defence which has been going in at least since Roosy left.

Jetta is undisciplined in this and at least 2 other backs seem to fly against Gawn Lever and May ( who committed his own Flying suicidal act yesterday.

May  would be better at CHB and Oscsr  goal keeping in games where the opposition have 3 talls or similar. 
 

And Maysies kicking out yesterday was diabolical Always  to LH side  and Noplayers made any effort to make leads.

Why didn't he kick to Tomlinsons wing and use his height advantage ?

We are a lazy footy team with nit enough gut bust running and neither the forwards mids or backs work hard enough.

In the first  quarter when we were good (very good in patches) we put pressure on Carlton and they couldn't handle it.

With some subtle positional changes and determination and the ruck evening up they overtook the initiate and never lost it.

We had no plan B and didn't change our game slow the pace and pass short to break the game or reposition any players.

Dont even start me on Jets standing next to Harry McKay!!!!

A lot of work is necessary down back to galvanise the group into a tight unit Smithy is nit ready fir defence and A forward spot is more ideal to try and break in.

Hibbo and Jets are nearly finished and Jones is better up forward So Rivers was a breath of fresh air and everything we hoped he round be on his training and expectations of the Club. He even kicks both feet!!!

Lockhart is the other player necessary fir run and carry and minding small smart forwards maybe even Tipper   on Sunday.
Despite another poster saying his disposal is not good I feel he is better than most if our players.

Salem was Workmanlike yesterday but feel he is limited in his speed of foot and delivery of the ball Although reliable in delivery.

Wr need the aggression of May at CHB   To break the opposition up.

Sorry to go on but will not even start on the forwards leave it to another time.

[58er 6,461]

11 hours ago, willmoy said:

I saw a Melbourne Player do one of the smartest kicks to advantage in about three years and he's only played 2  Games

Who ?

[58er 6,461]

17 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Yes, total lack of respect and acknowlegemet of whos the leader. And there is footage of him looking really bewildered/dismayed in the second half. Not a critcsm but looked like he was either searching for a way to stop the run on or totally dismayed with some players and the situation.

Sorry but it may have something to do with being a ruckman !

Not sure Gawny has many footy smarts other than his ruckwork and comedy routines.

No more leadership yesterday under the Capt VC and every one else then previously.