19 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Waleed has been in the media a long time, has worked for the ABC as well

On your bike Sunshine 

Ye who hates Demmonland and MCC Members

Why are you here....? It must be painfull 

Don't hate anybody, hate is used as a word to incite the 'listeners and followers'

I just find some posters on Demonland will repeat anything that is told to them, particularly by noisy media pundits and not care whether it is fact, fallacy or opinion

I regard the MCC as an elitist organisation, with too much say on certain issues

I come on here

1. For the comedy

2. To hopefully provide an alternative opinion

You didn't answer my question

To all those who criticize news outlets, you could always listen and then think for yourself, you will be surprised on how refreshing you may find that

 

48 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

"Today a young man on acid realised that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration; that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Waleed with an opinionated rant."

What am I reading FOR? Maybe cos I don’t want to work in a Waffle House!

Good to see politics isn't mentioned on this site.

Three things -

1.  This whole scenario is the standard "whistle-blower-painted-as-troublemaker" story.  It's easier to blame the one speaking out than take a proper look at ourselves.  And it's even easier to do when it's someone like Lumumba who has a reputation for not not fitting the generic AFL player type.   

2. It's classic white people trying to tell a POC what racism is.  White people don't really get to decide what's racist because we're not in the position to experience it.  If a POC is saying they're experiencing racism, believe them, they know what racisim is and they're not making it up.  

3. AFL fans seems incapable of accepting that someone might be two things.  Example - HL could be a massive w*nker but he's also making valid points about his experience of racism at an AFL club.  Like Goodes before him, we might look back in time and realise H had very good points to make and we could've learned something from his experience.  

 

 

37 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

While this thread has gone off the main topic (which I definitely contributed to), it does make the whole Lumumba story somewhat intriguing.

You've got someone (Lumumba) raising serious racism concerns in one of our country's most recognisable brands (the AFL, and in particular the Collingwood Football Club), at a time when racism worldwide is a major headline.  Then we've got a TV program (which is meant to be a current affairs program), that traditionally are happy to investigate "popular" issues, willing to shelve (or somewhat dismiss) these accusations?  Why?  Have they dug deep and found nothing?  Are they too worried about their own individual reputations and employment prospects if they dig too deep?

Now we learn that Collingwood, on arguably one of the biggest football stages in the history of the game, giving a public show of support for the #BLM movement.  While it's reported to be player driven, they still have the same coach and president that were in charge when HL made these allegations, the president in particular having prior offences on the very topic.

It just doesn't make sense to me.  Part of me hopes that this has been investigated and there's a "nothing to see here" outcome.  On the other hand, if something has happened to HL and it's being easily dismissed, especially by programs like The Project, then what hope do we have moving forward of stamping this thing out of mainstream society?

 

I have no doubt the Collingwood players, Buckley and even McGuire mean no ill will to anyone based on their race. I also have no doubt that Lumumba's allegations are true (particularly as some like the nickname he was given "chimp" were backed up by several players including 3 indigenous players). It's the culture that needs to change to make sure it is understood why someone would have a negative reaction when being subjected to those comments and/or experiences. The culture is what makes it seem ok to make racist comments etc because we have a culture of taking the [censored] out of each other and people just need to toughen up if they can't hack it. But it is wreckless to assume that your experience is everyone's and that singling people out particularly when they belong to a minority with a history of oppression is going to have no ill effects.

I would be horrified if this happened at MFC and I assume many Collingwood supporters are too

As to why the Project swept it under the rug back in 2017 when the Lumumba doco came out - well Aly and Hellier are part of the infotainment industry in Melbourne a huge part of which is the AFL and the biggest club is Collingwood with a President with multiple media platforms. Do you really need to dig too far to figure out why they may not have made an issue of it?

Edited June 11, 20205 yr by Dr. Gonzo

I see there has been positive testing of Coronavirus from last weekend's protest rally.....

7 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I see there has been positive testing of Coronavirus from last weekend's protest rally.....

Not good..To those people who have said they were compelled to attend the rally on the weekend out of a strong sense of moral obligation, this is the time to prove it. Now that we've had our first positive case, you need to self-isolate for two weeks and get tested. Anything less than that would demonstrate a callous disregard for other people and destroy any moral credibility that those attending the protest had.

Edited June 11, 20205 yr by Ethan Tremblay

6 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Not good..To those people who have said they were compelled to attend the rally on the weekend out of a strong sense of moral obligation, this is the time to prove it. Now that we've had our first positive case, you need to self-isolate for two weeks and get tested. Anything less than that would demonstrate a callous disregard for other people and destroy any moral credibility that those attending the protest had.

i think that's already been demonstrated, ethan

such a lack of innovation that some people think they can only demonstrate effectively on the streets in a mob

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You have a right to your own opinions/beliefs but you do not have a right to your own facts

That is deep, Doc, very deep. I appreciate the thoughtful exercise that it presents.

Existentialist and somewhat privately retained, experiential reflexiveness. Quite esoteric in its reality - only for the initiated, if I can be permitted to interpret that ideas flow. Thank you.

Racism isn’t political, it’s not right or left. It’s just racism, it’s horrible and it needs to change in our and many other countries. 

1 hour ago, deegirl said:

Three things -

1.  This whole scenario is the standard "whistle-blower-painted-as-troublemaker" story.  It's easier to blame the one speaking out than take a proper look at ourselves.  And it's even easier to do when it's someone like Lumumba who has a reputation for not not fitting the generic AFL player type.   

2. It's classic white people trying to tell a POC what racism is.  White people don't really get to decide what's racist because we're not in the position to experience it.  If a POC is saying they're experiencing racism, believe them, they know what racisim is and they're not making it up.  

3. AFL fans seems incapable of accepting that someone might be two things.  Example - HL could be a massive w*nker but he's also making valid points about his experience of racism at an AFL club.  Like Goodes before him, we might look back in time and realise H had very good points to make and we could've learned something from his experience.  

 

 

Some non-colour people do understand.   For Want of a much better word.

Anyone who has been marginalised to a strong degree...  will be able to understand well,  what it is to be portrayed this way,  mostly unintentionally,  by the mass of white christian stereos.  ... or even most christian stereo's.  those of power in this world.  Those who think they get to announce what is normal, to all-others outdside their reality.

 

So yes,  'HL'  is very much a victim of this,  and I believe what he says, because it comes from his heart.

Just as Adam Goodes was incredibly brave to take on the mass of white typical AFL footy supporters,  who cannot stand anything criticising their belief structures.

 

11 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Racism isn’t political, it’s not right or left. It’s just racism, it’s horrible and it needs to change in our and many other countries. 

quite agree, racism in itself is not political, but it does get used and abused for political objectives

42 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

some people think they can only demonstrate effectively on the streets in a mob

I very much agree with the cause behind the protests and support the protesters.

However, my personal view is that the protests shouldn't have happened at this time because of the health risk.

My question to you dc is what do you think would constitute an effective demonstration?

 

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I have no doubt the Collingwood players, Buckley and even McGuire mean no ill will to anyone based on their race. I also have no doubt that Lumumba's allegations are true (particularly as some like the nickname he was given "chimp" were backed up by several players including 3 indigenous players). It's the culture that needs to change to make sure it is understood why someone would have a negative reaction when being subjected to those comments and/or experiences. The culture is what makes it seem ok to make racist comments etc because we have a culture of taking the [censored] out of each other and people just need to toughen up if they can't hack it. But it is wreckless to assume that your experience is everyone's and that singling people out particularly when they belong to a minority with a history of oppression is going to have no ill effects.

I would be horrified if this happened at MFC and I assume many Collingwood supporters are too

As to why the Project swept it under the rug back in 2017 when the Lumumba doco came out - well Aly and Hellier are part of the infotainment industry in Melbourne a huge part of which is the AFL and the biggest club is Collingwood with a President with multiple media platforms. Do you really need to dig too far to figure out why they may not have made an issue of it?

Makes perfect sense, and exactly why it doesn't make sense.  From what I understand, Aly is put on this pedestal as someone to look up to, someone to listen to when he speaks, is very vocal about his religion, making sure that viewers understand that religions have their complexities.

Yet when he has the opportunity to open up on a serious issue like the HL one, what does he do?  Looks after himself.

And this guy is meant to be someone that our newer generations look up to and relate to.

1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Not good..To those people who have said they were compelled to attend the rally on the weekend out of a strong sense of moral obligation, this is the time to prove it. Now that we've had our first positive case, you need to self-isolate for two weeks and get tested. Anything less than that would demonstrate a callous disregard for other people and destroy any moral credibility that those attending the protest had.

Read it properly, from the Vic Medical Officer confirmed it wasn't picked up at the rally, was pre existing, same as any other person, had symptoms and went and got the test

Same as if any of those tyre kickers that packed Victoria Gardens at the weekend, without masks and not hand sanitising, experienced the symptoms

I was compelled to attend not out of moral obligation, I did it because I thought it was the right thing to do

 

40 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

quite agree, racism in itself is not political, but it does get used and abused for political 

Hanson?

Of course it's political, would take politicians to change the constitution

Edited June 11, 20205 yr by Satyriconhome

19 minutes ago, demonstone said:

 

My question to you dc is what do you think would constitute an effective demonstration?

 

unfortunately ds, i don't have a crystal ball, but there are numerous ways to protest for change, but ultimately, despite whatever laws and sanctions you can come up with (which may help) it is essentially a re-education of how people think

3 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

unfortunately ds, i don't have a crystal ball, but there are numerous ways to protest for change, but ultimately, despite whatever laws and sanctions you can come up with (which may help) it is essentially a re-education of how people think

You mean any method that may not impact on the return of fans to the footy, or educating the fans that there are more important things in life than footy

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

"Today a young man on acid realised that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration; that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Waleed with an opinionated rant."

Get everyone to realise that and there will be no racism(or anti-racism for that matter). I think Bill Hicks was on to something.

what the hel is a waleed ali. a racist i guess against normal australians

19 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

You mean any method that may not impact on the return of fans to the footy, or educating the fans that there are more important things in life than footy

huh? i have no idea where you plucked that from in terms of what i posted

27 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

there are numerous ways to protest for change,

I'm trying to tease out what methods might work, other than mass protests in public that garner huge media coverage.

The protests in USA, for example, had the effect of Chauvin being charged with second degree murder and also led to his fellow cops (Chauvinist pigs?) being arrested for aiding and abetting.   They also brought the racism issue to the forefront.

I agree that re-education is the key, albeit a slow process.

17 minutes ago, forever demons said:

what the hel is a waleed ali. a racist i guess against normal australians

My dog once ate some scrabble tiles and his poop made more sense that this post.

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I see there has been positive testing of Coronavirus from last weekend's protest rally.....

Have to say my heart sank when I saw so many people effectively undoing all the hard work and sacrifice by the medical profession, in the political sphere and general public over a number of weeks to bring the situation under control. Surely there would be numerous other ways that a creative society could have made this issue front and centre without congregating in such numbers.  

14 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

huh? i have no idea where you plucked that from in terms of what i posted

I was putting forward a method or way

Again VicMO  said unless you display symptoms, no need to isolate

We do have another virus on the rise 'the headless chook lynch mob'

2 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I see there has been positive testing of Coronavirus from last weekend's protest rally.....

Not quit. From reports I have seen A person who attended the rally has tested positive. Apparently wore a mask.