49 minutes ago, dieter said:

The same 'culture' issues which were rife at Geelong, Hawthorn, West Coast, , North Melbourne....All of them won premierships...

Collingwood, Richmond...

6 hours ago, Pates said:

Question though: was he that sort of a player because our club culture was so bad already? Had he had better role models around him, a stronger support network, not to mention a club that actually wanted to win, would he have continued partying and binging?

I suppose we’ll never know but he was another example of prime talent handed to us with us being able to squeeze very little out of him. 

Yes agree mostly. 
a combination of poor role models, poor administrators, and very poor personal decision. 
he took the drugs.  No wonder he was slow.  Had the ability and the football smarts, but failed or our coaches failed to get it out of him. I think there are a number of players that did not perform as they might. TJ anyone ?

birds of a feather. And we attracted them.

we all make our own decisions, some of my friends failed to get past 65.  But they kept hard at it. I went a bit different to them, still hoping for a flag before I go. 
or three.

just hope it’s different now. I am sure it was with PJ and Roos. 

For 2020 go Dees  we won’t forget it. 

lot of naive posters on this thread

booze and drugs (and other things) have been common across all clubs

9 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

lot of naive posters on this thread

booze and drugs (and other things) have been common across all clubs

Wonderful pastimes dc ……. 

he's a rat

40 minutes ago, don cordner4 said:

he's a rat

Highest order

To leave the MFC and go to Carltank, blabbing to the media was a low act

No Sympathy at all

3 hours ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

What;  you think Brock was the only partying binging player at Melbourne during  those times.

What, about Febey's habit.?   What about that guy Riggers.? What about others?

What about watt.?

What about  'oges.?

 

I'm sorry,  but the culture issues had been boiling along since the mid 90's.  Possibly earlier than that.

No one coach has been able to eradicate this,  but one did try hard.

You are so off the mark, during 1987 to 2006, the club had strong leadership and culture, Lyon, Viney, neta, all great captain,  every club has their ups and downs, Melbourne's s long  failure between 2007 to 2018, has over shadowed pre 2006.

Melbourne's list was cut to hard after 2007 getting rid of too many leaders and left it with too many inexperienced players, the Hawks set the model on how to build a great club through tanking, they where under the easiest tanking draft model, being able to get a pp every year for 4 years, when it was the demons trun the rules had been tighten, so much that the benefits of trying to win games outweighed the benefits of tanking.

2 hours ago, daisycutter said:

lot of naive posters on this thread

booze and drugs (and other things) have been common across all clubs

Don't you know winning solves all problems, West coast had the worst drug culture in history and are one of the great clubs.

20 hours ago, demonstone said:

Paywall.

https://wwos.nine.com.au/afl/former-afl-star-brock-mclean-reveals-strip-club-sacking/e05ebadf-94cc-4123-985f-ecf60d682abd

Only Brock Mclean could get the sack in a strip club!!!

1 hour ago, don't make me angry said:

Don't you know winning solves all problems, West coast had the worst drug culture in history and are one of the great clubs.

yep, know that. anymore questions?

who was the player few years ago who said drug use was rife and got pilloried from all angles by the afl, clubs and the sports media?

Not only did we make what turned out to be some shocking draft choices in that era, we were also in the wrong place at the wrong time. We drafted Sylvia and McLean with picks 3 & 5 in 2003. The same selections in the following season would have given us Ryan Griffen and Lance Franklin.

40 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Not only did we make what turned out to be some shocking draft choices in that era, we were also in the wrong place at the wrong time. We drafted Sylvia and McLean with picks 3 & 5 in 2003. The same selections in the following season would have given us Ryan Griffen and Lance Franklin.

Or we might have taken Richard Tambling and  Tom Williams, who were around that mark.

Just sayin' 

?

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

who was the player few years ago who said drug use was rife and got pilloried from all angles by the afl, clubs and the sports media?

Dale Lewis. The AFL led the lynching. Don't turn over rocks if you don't want to know what's underneath. Demetriou's personal motto.

45 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Not only did we make what turned out to be some shocking draft choices in that era, we were also in the wrong place at the wrong time. We drafted Sylvia and McLean with picks 3 & 5 in 2003. The same selections in the following season would have given us Ryan Griffen and Lance Franklin.

I believe we did interview Franklin and, along with several other clubs, were put off by his putting his feet on the desk and taking calls from his mates during the interview. Character. Amazing, the character defects that incredible talent will compensate for.

8 hours ago, Jumping Jack Clennett said:

I'm amazed our club leaders either turned a blind eye, or somehow failed to recognise his life-style.

I thought that sort of behaviour was mainly at West Coast.

Brock should have gone there. He would have had a bonanza.

Was it endemic at Melbourne?  Are any players like that now?

Maybe the leaders of the club were part of that lifestyle ie the Beamer, Tapp pic in Vegas. Col and his issues off field. 

7 hours ago, rjay said:

 

The culture question is an interesting one.

I'm not sure the partying and drug binges are an issue as far as winning games of football is concerned.

West Coast are a prime example of that.

The current top 4 teams are also renowned.

Clubs, the AFL and fans will turn a blind eye if you're winning...

However as far as beyond football goes a few will fall by the wayside...it's sad but it also mirrors society.

Knowing when to do it and having the senior players to pull you up when “needed” is possibly the difference? Who knows it’s just a sad end to so many MFC players careers and our hard earned during that time. 

2 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Only Brock Mclean could get the sack in a strip club!!!

You got fired on your day off?!?! What da hell is wrong wit you?!

6 hours ago, dieter said:

The same 'culture' issues which were rife at Geelong, Hawthorn, West Coast, , North Melbourne....All of them won premierships...

Same.???  I don't agree.

Why do you think we got Moloney as a trade for our pick to be used on bOttens.  Why did the Cats suggest/offer him to us.  He was expendable for them.  And we didn't know better.  Says plenty about our recruiting-team spotters.  Because he wasn't the smartest tool in the footy worlds shed. 

They wanted him out,  and it was a win win for them.   They got Ottens from the Tiges for two picks, and the Tiges picked.?

Geelong finally made top of ladder in 2007 - and remained high up the ladder for years.

 

We picked Bater and Dunn that year 2004.

Ice T was the choice over West as I understand it, and Meth.

Hawthorn have been on enhancers since the 80's dieter.   One former Hawk of the 80's I know,  called it "Elephant Juice".   Different juices back in the 80's.  More aligned with steroids.

3 hours ago, don't make me angry said:

You are so off the mark, during 1987 to 2006, the club had strong leadership and culture, Lyon, Viney, neta, all great captain,  every club has their ups and downs, Melbourne's s long  failure between 2007 to 2018, has over shadowed pre 2006.

Melbourne's list was cut to hard after 2007 getting rid of too many leaders and left it with too many inexperienced players, the Hawks set the model on how to build a great club through tanking, they where under the easiest tanking draft model, being able to get a pp every year for 4 years, when it was the demons trun the rules had been tighten, so much that the benefits of trying to win games outweighed the benefits of tanking.

Oh,  Please.  dmma.

You don't think big heads,  partying and thinking they're better than they really are,  is a sick culture.  Drugs as well.  They say 'tings go better with Coke'.

When list leaders start to enjoy themselves a little too much,  the output drops off.

We had one of the best lists Mid 90's.  with Lyon,  Jakovich,  etc leaders of that pack.

Did you know there was a culture problem with the Footy Show in the 90's...  I'd hate to think that spread to our boys.

11 hours ago, Cards13 said:

This is the million $ question of nature vs nurture isn't it. We literally lost an entire "generation" of half decent success to absolute failure because of a lack of on field leaders and a footy club in turmoil?

Where was the personal responsibility of the players, the internal drive to turn the footy side of things around? 

It is clearly very grey between both and there is failures of all front for that era, Brock being a great example of that.

I can say that  Barassi battled with a really amateur attitude in the Mfc.

This was so hard to get out of the club,  because many of the better players were the instigators of it.  They were infected with it as a defence against perennial losing.  They harboured it.  And they used it subconsciously,  as an internal escapee from fear of losing.  Think of the better players who were there before Barassi and when the club were perennial losers.

And these players could not be swapped out to other clubs fora win win situation as they were highly regarded by the supporters.  << This concept was not necessarily considered by the club, but was a truth either way.

 

The best way to lift the club aside of this culture,  was to trade players into the club,  and continue to grow our juniors.  Nothtey was the beneficiary of this program,  following Barassi.

Lets say that the anti-dote of losing to big teams like the hawks,  was to party hard,  and sow the oats,  to lick the psychological wounds,  from games like Prelims and Grand Final shellacking's, etc .

8 hours ago, dieter said:

A player's decision to binge on booze and drugs has nothing to do with how 'disgraceful', as you put it, a club is. West Coast won a flag with drug binged players...

Oils aint Oils,  Sol..   Downers aint uppers.    Grog aint Speed.

I can’t think of a better place to find out you’ve been sacked

6 hours ago, 640MD said:

birds of a feather. And we attracted them.

Were   a happy team at Mel----bourne

We are the mighty effin   Dees

We love   our club,   and we play up  hard  

We are   the mighty  effin  Dees...

 

We've been a modern version of the 70's - 80s  Saints.   Legends in the night clubs.    Parte` boys.   it's how we fly.

And its why we lose.

 

... there is a MfcSS inside the club,  and inside minds.

 

And its how we attract other like minded types from other clubs.  and how our kids learn... or not learn.

 

We so need a jSelwood,  a LHodge,  sMitchell,   these types.

1 hour ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

Same.???  I don't agree.

Why do you think we got Moloney as a trade for our pick to be used on bOttens.  Why did the Cats suggest/offer him to us.  He was expendable for them.  And we didn't know better.  Says plenty about our recruiting-team spotters.  Because he wasn't the smartest tool in the footy worlds shed. 

They wanted him out,  and it was a win win for them.   They got Ottens from the Tiges for two picks, and the Tiges picked.?

Geelong finally made top of ladder in 2007 - and remained high up the ladder for years.

 

We picked Bater and Dunn that year 2004.

Ice T was the choice over West as I understand it, and Meth.

Hawthorn have been on enhancers since the 80's dieter.   One former Hawk of the 80's I know,  called it "Elephant Juice".   Different juices back in the 80's.  More aligned with steroids.

The cats took  Grigic and Bailey from us, an over the hill Rivers. As though the demons were the only dumbclucks in the world.....

Blokes always been on the nose, as a supporter I was sad when he left the club, early in the next season I was talking to an MFC football department employee and I asked the question about him leaving: the simple answer was he’s not a good bloke..