Has the axe already fallen on the Suns?

"Gold Coast Suns football department staff have been stood down indefinitely and advised to explore their employment options".

That sounds rather permanent.

Source:  Suns-football-department

The article doesn't say if coaching staff are also stood down.

Players must be feeling very restless.  The dozen top 10 draftees of the last few years will find homes quickly but who knows for the rest if the worst comes to pass.

While we would all agree that the Suns have been the least viable both on-field and off-field it is still sad if they go and terrible for the families. 

Realistically, 18 teams just can't survive post 2020. 

Edited March 23, 20205 yr by Lucifer's Hero

  On 23/03/2020 at 01:08, Lucifer's Hero said:

Has the axe already fallen on the Suns?

"Gold Coast Suns football department staff have been stood down indefinitely and advised to explore their employment options".

That sounds rather permanent.

Source:  Suns-football-department

The article doesn't say if coaching staff are also stood down.

Players must be feeling very restless.  The dozen top 10 draftees of the last few years will find homes quickly but who knows for the rest if the worst comes to pass.

While we would all agree that the Suns have been the least viable both on-field and off-field it is still sad if they go and terrible for the families. 

Realistically, 18 teams just can't survive post 2020. 

The clubs have a better chance if they decide to pay the players 7cents in the dollar (or thereabouts) All other people employed will simply be let go (coaches etc)

It would still be a costly exercise to pay everyone but the AFL's cash reserves (and fixed assets) can cover the clubs costs (at least in part)

The players could take the clubs to court but if there's no money,  there's no money. 

So the biggie is the player payments as the CBA agreement states that the players are 'entitled' to 28% of 'Budgeted' income (not actual income)  For the duration of their existing contracts (?)

So if the club comes before the individual then the clubs might decide to take their chances in the courts ... the alternative for a number of clubs is to possibly or probably go under. 

Or a club becomes insolvent replaced by another new club that takes up where the other one left off. 

So there is a way (in theory) to save even the smaller clubs in Melbourne.  I know what I'd be doing if it was up to me.  The Club always comes first.

 

Edited March 23, 20205 yr by Macca

  On 22/03/2020 at 07:45, Wadda We Sing said:

Does this mean we are back to the longest pre-season ever or is it Mad Monday tomorrow? Im totally confused !

North players thought it was mad Monday....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-23/coronavirus-apology-from-north-melbourne-footballers-after-party/12080964

  On 23/03/2020 at 01:08, Lucifer's Hero said:

Has the axe already fallen on the Suns?

"Gold Coast Suns football department staff have been stood down indefinitely and advised to explore their employment options".

That sounds rather permanent.

Source:  Suns-football-department

The article doesn't say if coaching staff are also stood down.

Players must be feeling very restless.  The dozen top 10 draftees of the last few years will find homes quickly but who knows for the rest if the worst comes to pass.

While we would all agree that the Suns have been the least viable both on-field and off-field it is still sad if they go and terrible for the families. 

Realistically, 18 teams just can't survive post 2020. 

wowwee!!! 

  On 23/03/2020 at 01:08, Lucifer's Hero said:

"Gold Coast Suns football department staff have been stood down indefinitely and advised to explore their employment options"

When things have settled down and the money is flowing again in a few years time, hopefully the AFL re-introduce an 18th team in Tassie (as they should have done in the first place).

The payout for the stadium owner on the GC could be large if the Suns do cease to exist. Would not be surprised if the contract is guaranteed by the AFL.

My guess is that it is all up to the TV rights holders. The AFL will play a season even if they have to play it all in January next year simply because they must have the money from the TV companies.  If the TV companies say no then the AFL is in trouble.

One thing I know for sure is I’m gonna miss the footy and miss the MFC. Even as I rediscovered the age old feeling of disappointment and frustration, there were enough reminders in the game for me about why I love it and why I put myself through this every week. Notwithstanding my tongue in cheek post on the post match thread, knowing that’s the last match for now and there’s no chance to dust off next week and redeem ourselves left me feeling hollow. 

It’s obviously the right thing to do though and losing it is a drop in the ocean compared to the hardship many will face in the weeks/months. Take care, Demonlanders.

Staff Reductions Update

• The league has effectively taken control of all clubs and ordered the measures as they renegotiate with banks to secure lines of credit to keep the competition operating.
• Players are paid after work is completed and are certain to be paid up until March 27, the end of the current pay period. What happens after that is uncertain, given no games will be played.
• Up to 80 per cent of staff at the AFL and clubs have been stood down without pay
• Gold Coast and GWS had already told staff they were being cut back to the bare minimum and further meetings were being held at all clubs throughout the day.

  On 23/03/2020 at 04:42, Lucifer's Hero said:

Staff Reductions Update

• The league has effectively taken control of all clubs and ordered the measures as they renegotiate with banks to secure lines of credit to keep the competition operating.
• Players are paid after work is completed and are certain to be paid up until March 27, the end of the current pay period. What happens after that is uncertain, given no games will be played.
• Up to 80 per cent of staff at the AFL and clubs have been stood down without pay
• Gold Coast and GWS had already told staff they were being cut back to the bare minimum and further meetings were being held at all clubs throughout the day.

Wow.  Massively impactful.  It is hard to see how the season will recommence - teams will need a ‘pre-season’ run in, probably at least a month on top of maintained base fitness.  Look to AFLx style matches to rush through games if needed.  Although I doubt that the AFL will run this year at all.

AFL has to look after its core assets and fan base as  number 1 priority. Goodbye GC and GWS. A leaner stronger competition.

Edited March 23, 20205 yr by america de cali

  On 23/03/2020 at 07:09, america de cali said:

AFL has to look after its core assets and fan base as  number 1 priority. Goodbye GC and GWS.

St Kilda etc as well as ourselves could well be in the firing line.

Ten maybe 12 team superleague and those ten/12 would do very well thank you.

Ten teams in Melbourne has always been impossible as the size of the pie stagnates.

  On 22/03/2020 at 20:21, Lucifer's Hero said:

There was a hint in Gill's comments that all 18 clubs may not survive:  "Asked whether some clubs would battle to remain solvent, McLachlan said: “It’s a challenge but we will get there … we are working collectively to secure liquidity so we can protect the AFL and all our 18 clubs.” Season Postponed

I don't wish to be too pessimistic but we may not survive.  We are in a poor financial state and it will get worse with virtually no revenue after we give up pokies in June.  Not many wealthy benefactors to bail us out.  We are the only team without a base and without a heartland, as much as we fans like to think it is the MCG and surrounding areas, it just isn't. 

The other weaker clubs (Saints, Roos and Bulldogs) can mobilise their fans in their heartland to their suburban bases (when crowds can gather again) for fundraising, socialising etc etc.  Get fan momentum back.  Where does mfc go?  We are more vulnerable than any other Vic team.  And I don't think our proud history will protect us if crunch decisions need to be made.  Nor will our 'parent company' the MCC. 

As I noted a few days ago it is quite probable there will be mergers and relocations.  I just hope and pray we aren't one of them.  The AFL becomes 16 teams.  The AFL broadcast agreement expires at the end of 2022 but I would guess that it will soon be re-written to take account of no 2020 season.  Beyond that there will be variety of scenarios - fewer teams and games could well be in those scenarios.

You clearly have no idea first thing you should do is read our annual report and have a look at our balance sheet

we have money in bank and substantial assets that can be made liquid because they are not tied up in a home base.  We are effectively debt free go and have a look or attend an AGM and ask questions if you dont understand 

Also any comments around scrapping Gold Coast or Norf or us just won’t happen - Media Rights! AFL need all 18 clubs and in coming years will extend comp why? Media rights!

  On 23/03/2020 at 07:16, Diamond_Jim said:

St Kilda etc as well as ourselves could well be in the firing line.

Ten maybe 12 team superleague and those ten/12 would do very well thank you.

Ten teams in Melbourne has always been impossible as the size of the pie stagnates.

I seriously doubt that the AFL would want to lose up to a half a million fans from establishment clubs at this early stage. Most will never come back. It would  be a worst case scenario. And easier to wind up the lesser performing clubs, their assets and liabilities then start up new ones with same name from scratch with no baggage and maintain the fan base. GWS and GC are no great loss. What fans they have will mostly transfer their allegiances. 

Edited March 23, 20205 yr by america de cali

  On 23/03/2020 at 07:24, america de cali said:

I seriously doubt that the AFL would want to lose up to a half a million fans from establishment clubs at this early stage. Most will never come back. It would  be a worst case scenario. And easier to wind up the lesser performing clubs, their assets and liabilities then start up new ones with same name from scratch with no baggage and maintain the fan base.

It wouldn't be the AFL who made the decision. It would be the big ten. Not saying it will happen but you can bet that someone is gaming the figures and when they realise that the broadcast rights pie will stagnate if not get smaller next time round all bets are off.

  On 23/03/2020 at 07:22, Jack Russell said:

Media Rights! AFL need all 18 clubs and in coming years will extend comp why? Media rights!

All bets will be off with the media rights 'Jack', they used to be a prize but not any longer.

No football, no money...

The TV industry is haemorrhaging  money big time, the golden goose has closed up.

A leaner, more watchable competition may well be the answer.

  On 23/03/2020 at 07:22, Jack Russell said:

substantial assets that can be made liquid

There may be no buyers or maybe bargain hunters.

Cash at bank maybe a saviour but I wouldn't be banking property at the moment.

It will take a big hit.

 

  On 22/03/2020 at 06:15, WERRIDEE said:

This is crap. The only thing I look forward to has been taken away . I'm calling for drastic change. Let the virus spread if the elderly and sick die so be it don't take away our football.

There have been some terrible posts on this site over the years but this goes beyond poor.

Even if meant as tongue in cheek it is still a very poor post.

I hope for your sake you regret posting it, if not you need serious help 

  On 23/03/2020 at 07:22, Jack Russell said:

You clearly have no idea first thing you should do is read our annual report and have a look at our balance sheet

we have money in bank and substantial assets that can be made liquid because they are not tied up in a home base.  We are effectively debt free go and have a look or attend an AGM and ask questions if you dont understand 

Also any comments around scrapping Gold Coast or Norf or us just won’t happen - Media Rights! AFL need all 18 clubs and in coming years will extend comp why? Media rights!

Hmmm.  You know nothing of my background so it isn't wise to make claims like 'you clearly have no idea'.

To address your comments: 

• 'Money in the bank'?  $225k isn't very much.
• 'Substantial assets can be made liquid'.  Our only asset is the Bentleigh Club while worth more than $8.7m value in the Balance Sheet, it is not easily 'made liquid' .
• We don't have debt because we used up the $10.0m in Cash at the end of 2018 (a large part was the sale of Leighoak.  Money that had been earmarked for our new Club facilities).   Without the $10.0m we would be deeply in debt.

For more detail, the 2019 Annual Report shows:

• Total Assets:  $21.2m of which only $2.7m are 'Current Assets' (ie Cash or easily converted to 'Cash').  At the end of 2018 the 'Current Asset' figure was $11.2m with over $10.m in the bank in part from the sale of Leighoak.
• Total Liabilities:  $10.1m of which $7.9m are 'Current Liabilities' ie due in the next 12 months.  Note:  That our Current Liabilities are 3.5 times our Current Assets is not a good sign!
• Net Assets: $11.133m - primarily the Bentleigh Club valued at $8.700m altho worth a lot more but not easily 'made liquid'.
• A Loss of just on $2.000m

That does not look financially sound to me. 

That we used up $10m in cash in 2019 to pay bills shows how poor our cash flows were in 2019.

We are one of the very vulnerable Victorian clubs, not just financially but also poor on-field performance over many years, small membership, fluctuating sponsorships (we may be the only club that does not have a long term 'anchor' sponsor). 

You may like to think we are we are not vulnerable, that is up to you.

 

Media Rights agreements has gone up in smoke.  It is now meaningless - Fox and Ch7 have stopped paying the AFL.   No games, no broadcasts, no money.

Any new Broadcasting agreement will match the landscape of the AFL at the time: 18 teams? 16 teams? 14 teams?  Who knows.  I will but money on 14 or 16 teams after shutdowns, mergers and relocations. 

Tbh, selfishly I just want mfc to be one of them.  Time will tell if we survive.

Edited March 23, 20205 yr by Lucifer's Hero

  On 23/03/2020 at 07:09, america de cali said:

AFL has to look after its core assets and fan base as  number 1 priority. Goodbye GC and GWS. A leaner stronger competition.

It may be bye bye to those teams but will a Vic team be relocated to/merged with GWS or GCS? 

I have little doubt all options will be on the table.

  On 22/03/2020 at 20:21, Lucifer's Hero said:

There was a hint in Gill's comments that all 18 clubs may not survive:  "Asked whether some clubs would battle to remain solvent, McLachlan said: “It’s a challenge but we will get there … we are working collectively to secure liquidity so we can protect the AFL and all our 18 clubs.” Season Postponed

I don't wish to be too pessimistic but we may not survive.  We are in a poor financial state and it will get worse with virtually no revenue after we give up pokies in June.  Not many wealthy benefactors to bail us out.  We are the only team without a base and without a heartland, as much as we fans like to think it is the MCG and surrounding areas, it just isn't. 

The other weaker clubs (Saints, Roos and Bulldogs) can mobilise their fans in their heartland to their suburban bases (when crowds can gather again) for fundraising, socialising etc etc.  Get fan momentum back.  Where does mfc go?  We are more vulnerable than any other Vic team.  And I don't think our proud history will protect us if crunch decisions need to be made.  Nor will our 'parent company' the MCC. 

As I noted a few days ago it is quite probable there will be mergers and relocations.  I just hope and pray we aren't one of them.  The AFL becomes 16 teams.  The AFL broadcast agreement expires at the end of 2022 but I would guess that it will soon be re-written to take account of no 2020 season.  Beyond that there will be variety of scenarios - fewer teams and games could well be in those scenarios.

The pokies for some clubs might be a problem if they are financed or owned by someone else within the venue......

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-24/federal-group-demands-pokies-rent-from-closed-hotels-covid19/12082926

  On 23/03/2020 at 20:26, Lucifer's Hero said:

Hmmm.  You know nothing of my background so it isn't wise to make claims like 'you clearly have no idea'.

To address your comments: 

• 'Money in the bank'?  $225k isn't very much.
• 'Substantial assets can be made liquid'.  Our only asset is the Bentleigh Club while worth more than $8.7m value in the Balance Sheet, it is not easily 'made liquid' .
• We don't have debt because we used up the $10.0m in Cash at the end of 2018 (a large part was the sale of Leighoak.  Money that had been earmarked for our new Club facilities).   Without the $10.0m we would be deeply in debt.

For more detail, the 2019 Annual Report shows:

• Total Assets:  $21.2m of which only $2.7m are 'Current Assets' (ie Cash or easily converted to 'Cash').  At the end of 2018 the 'Current Asset' figure was $11.2m with over $10.m in the bank in part from the sale of Leighoak.
• Total Liabilities:  $10.1m of which $7.9m are 'Current Liabilities' ie due in the next 12 months.  Note:  That our Current Liabilities are 3.5 times our Current Assets is not a good sign!
• Net Assets: $11.133m - primarily the Bentleigh Club valued at $8.700m altho worth a lot more but not easily 'made liquid'.
• A Loss of just on $2.000m

That does not look financially sound to me. 

That we used up $10m in cash in 2019 to pay bills shows how poor our cash flows were in 2019.

We are one of the very vulnerable Victorian clubs, not just financially but also poor on-field performance over many years, small membership, fluctuating sponsorships (we may be the only club that does not have a long term 'anchor' sponsor). 

You may like to think we are we are not vulnerable, that is up to you.

 

Media Rights agreements has gone up in smoke.  It is now meaningless - Fox and Ch7 have stopped paying the AFL.   No games, no broadcasts, no money.

Any new Broadcasting agreement will match the landscape of the AFL at the time: 18 teams? 16 teams? 14 teams?  Who knows.  I will but money on 14 or 16 teams after shutdowns, mergers and relocations. 

Tbh, selfishly I just want mfc to be one of them.  Time will tell if we survive.

Accounting 101 LH  Very clear analysis.

Thanks for that! It's great to have facts and proper analysis to counter some of the inaccurate delusions around here.

Without the big bucks from broardcast rights the game will certainly change. We have seen the peak and now the challenge will be to remain relevent in a substancially cash poor enviorement

  On 23/03/2020 at 14:04, Pennant St Dee said:

There have been some terrible posts on this site over the years but this goes beyond poor.

Even if meant as tongue in cheek it is still a very poor post.

I hope for your sake you regret posting it, if not you need serious help 

If he regretted posting it, I think Werridee would probably have removed it by now (or if unable to do so, should have requested the mods delete it).  Werridee has been posting elsewhere on these forums since that post was made, so it's not as if he's not had ample opportunity to delete, apologise, or even to explain that it wasn't a serious comment. 

Edited March 23, 20205 yr by hardtack

  On 23/03/2020 at 20:41, Lucifer's Hero said:

It may be bye bye to those teams but will a Vic team be relocated to/merged with GWS or GCS? 

I have little doubt all options will be on the table.

luci, from a financial point of view i can't see any gain from sending a vic club up north to merge with either gws or gcs. these locations just don't generate their own funds and rely on massive afl handouts. I can't see that getting any better post c19, in fact it would probably get worse, so where would be the gain. I vic clubs merge it would be with other vic clubs to retain supporters and build income. gws and gcs could merge with sydney and brisbane.

of course afl will try to avoid mergers as this dilutes games played hence media rights $s, but it just might be too hard

whatever, salary caps and soft caps will be slashed as will wages across the board, staff numbers etc etc in the big footy rebuild 

  On 23/03/2020 at 23:42, daisycutter said:

luci, from a financial point of view i can't see any gain from sending a vic club up north to merge with either gws or gcs. these locations just don't generate their own funds and rely on massive afl handouts. I can't see that getting any better post c19, in fact it would probably get worse, so where would be the gain. I vic clubs merge it would be with other vic clubs to retain supporters and build income. gws and gcs could merge with sydney and brisbane.

of course afl will try to avoid mergers as this dilutes games played hence media rights $s, but it just might be too hard

whatever, salary caps and soft caps will be slashed as will wages across the board, staff numbers etc etc in the big footy rebuild 

Agree Daisy. 

As Eddie commented, clubs are going to have rebuild from the ground up.

Club survival will be the force that drives change and that change will have to disregard previous arrangements, contracts and preferences regarding players, coaching and support staff. I suspect that someone like Burgess will probably go. I tend to agree (reluctantly) with the velvet sledgehammer that it provides an opportunity to slash support staff. Like many others, the number of support staff seems to have grown exponentially over the last few years. Just look at the numbers in the coaching box and on the ground at quarter time breaks. 

Lets hope that it provides an opportunity for media outlets to cut footy media scribes and hangers on who make a living talking and writing crap. Far too many second raters making their living their AFL connection.  Hopefully, some positives will come from the changes imposed on the industry. 

At a personal level, it seems heartless as it means that many will lose their jobs and income but that is the case across society. On a macro level, it just seems that there has been a blow-out in folk making a living from AFL and that it is time that the sails are trimmed. 

Keep safe mate.

Edited March 24, 20205 yr by hemingway

  On 23/03/2020 at 23:42, daisycutter said:

luci, from a financial point of view i can't see any gain from sending a vic club up north to merge with either gws or gcs. these locations just don't generate their own funds and rely on massive afl handouts. I can't see that getting any better post c19, in fact it would probably get worse, so where would be the gain. I vic clubs merge it would be with other vic clubs to retain supporters and build income. gws and gcs could merge with sydney and brisbane.

of course afl will try to avoid mergers as this dilutes games played hence media rights $s, but it just might be too hard

whatever, salary caps and soft caps will be slashed as will wages across the board, staff numbers etc etc in the big footy rebuild 

I agree dc.  Was just indicating all options will be looked at so folks don't assume that shutting down gws and gcs will solve the financial problems ahead.  Just can't see an 18 team comp.