9 minutes ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

SOS is a jerk. 

16 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Haha , so is she! 

SOS presents as arrogant, self centred, defensive and controlling. When the media challenge him about his decision making, he either deflects blame/responsibility or gets all aggro. You know, a jerk. Not the kinda bloke you’d want to be stuck on a desert island with. 

Could play though, I guess. 

Thumbs up to the discussion in this thread. Will be interesting to see how the brown baggers progress and how SOS is viewed from here, let alone us.

 

Trouble is, Carlton is riddled with know-it-all coterie members and influential backers to a degree even well beyond that of other AFL clubs.

Just ask Brett Ratten, who dared to be realistic in his list evaluation all those years ago. The 'influential' rich people got in a huff and decided they could buy success and all it needed was someone willing to be paid enough.

Who knows how much Silvagni has been hamstrung by these people?  "Oooh, you know who would be just right? Tom Papley.  Yeah I'll have a word with him through a mate of a mate at the yacht club.  Nah it's a sure thing don't worry about trying to keep options open or keep any cards close to our chest."

Of course, it could also be that the big ego and aggression Silvagni has shown did a good job of keeping those people at bay and the whole ordinary last few years really is his fault.

We can also light a bonfire with the 'selection versus development' debate we all know so well.  2015 alone, with Weitering, Curnow and McKay, shows three players who all could conceivable be top level but just aren't putting it together.  But then they've had a few kind of average top picks (Petrevski-Seton and Dow) before getting Walsh.

Also, aside from the all-important Cripps, they could barely show two rocks to bang together for the last half dozen drafts. You have to go back to their string of no.1 picks plus Josh Kennedy at 4.

Honestly, the grab-bag that SOS collected was something he had to do in emergency conditions.  Anything to get some semblance of a team in place. 

What will happen from here with Carlton I think is a 50/50 split between the extremes of either coming together as a young unit just in time before the haul of veterans retire - and thereby being set up for a long term competitive era. OR they wont be able to get traction and too many of those young guys will just coast on their talent and Carlton will spend another five years lurking around the bottom of the table.

Personally, I think the Demons under Roos, Viney and Taylor managed a much more effective 'emergency plan' while also bring in more likely long term talent. Of particular importance we aren't relying on one lone beast to hold our clearance game together.

Worst full back of the century ever

5 hours ago, old dee said:

Carlton have the basis of a top eight side, last year they had quite a few injuries and still managed to finish ahead of us.

They even suffered through a poor coach most of the year.

IMO they will win a flag before the Dees.

bulltish

Wait a minute

can someone confirm SOS’s nom de plûme is not .... Basil?

3 hours ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

Haha , so is she! 

SOS presents as arrogant, self centred, defensive and controlling. When the media challenge him about his decision making, he either deflects blame/responsibility or gets all aggro. You know, a jerk. Not the kinda bloke you’d want to be stuck on a desert island with. 

Could play though, I guess. 

Sorry point of order 

 

PH knows what she’s doing . Follow the money yo

7 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I think Carlton are a sneaky chance to make the 8 next year and win a final.

Which would be the AFLs grand plan.
They love noting more than "The Big 4" winning.

2 hours ago, drysdale demon said:

bulltish

Sound well put alternative view dd.

14 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

He took on a bunch of the GWS players he didn’t want to absorb list spots or salary to get the ones he did want - Marchbank, Setterfield, Kennedy, Plowman - at a discount price. Top 10 picks for 2nd rounders. 

Shifted out the right players in Yarran, Henderson, Tuohy. 

Drafted a heap of talent in Curnow, McKay, Weitering, Walsh, Fisher, O’Brien, SPS, Stocker etc.

Apart from possibly a bad miss with Dow I’d say he’s done a heck of a job. Especially once they land Martin.

The best example since GWS and then maybe going back to Hawthorn before that of the complete rebuild. It will undoubtedly pay dividends over the next 5 years. I’m convinced of it. 

Unfortunately we stuffed up the rebuild twice so had to bring in Roos who traded away a bunch of high picks for instant starters in Tyson, Vince, Hibberd and Melksham and we didn’t assemble the right depth of youth. We’ve had to pay big money for key defenders, we’ve been found severely wanting in midfield run and we aren’t sorted with forward line talent either. 

Silvani is the worst recruiter in history. I'm glad he took the same dud players from GWS to Carlton.

Looking forward to watching Friday night footy this year, without having to watch that incompetent list.

On 11/8/2019 at 1:04 PM, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Exactly- I’d say it was an ‘overwhelming success’ when they can move up the ladder higher than 16th.

SOS has made very dubious decisions at both GWS and Carlton.

100% agree. He was obsessed with GWS rejects and I can't remember one 'cheap' one coming good. its taken 5 years to get into a position over leaving the bottom 4. throwing darts at a dart board would have greater success.

On 11/8/2019 at 1:31 PM, DeeSpencer said:

He took on a bunch of the GWS players he didn’t want to absorb list spots or salary to get the ones he did want - Marchbank, Setterfield, Kennedy, Plowman - at a discount price. Top 10 picks for 2nd rounders. 

Shifted out the right players in Yarran, Henderson, Tuohy. 

Drafted a heap of talent in Curnow, McKay, Weitering, Walsh, Fisher, O’Brien, SPS, Stocker etc.

Apart from possibly a bad miss with Dow I’d say he’s done a heck of a job. Especially once they land Martin.

The best example since GWS and then maybe going back to Hawthorn before that of the complete rebuild. It will undoubtedly pay dividends over the next 5 years. I’m convinced of it. 

Unfortunately we stuffed up the rebuild twice so had to bring in Roos who traded away a bunch of high picks for instant starters in Tyson, Vince, Hibberd and Melksham and we didn’t assemble the right depth of youth. We’ve had to pay big money for key defenders, we’ve been found severely wanting in midfield run and we aren’t sorted with forward line talent either. 

So you don't rate McDonald, Weid, Melksham, Petrraca anymore ?

I think SOS landed a couple of key forwards to work with but most disagree. Weitering has been up and down, Walsh looks like they finally were gifted a good number 1, Fisher decent, no-one rates SPS who has been disappointing, Stocker complete unknown at this stage. So really he got a couple of key forward from many first round picks and they still have holes in their midfield, wings, flanks and they have just a workmanlike backline with no flair, kicking ability and average pace. They look like an 8-10 win side to me (and yet to be proven) after 5 years of premium draft picks. I would could that a defnite FAIL.

42 minutes ago, Bay Riffin said:

So you don't rate McDonald, Weid, Melksham, Petrraca anymore ?

I think SOS landed a couple of key forwards to work with but most disagree. Weitering has been up and down, Walsh looks like they finally were gifted a good number 1, Fisher decent, no-one rates SPS who has been disappointing, Stocker complete unknown at this stage. So really he got a couple of key forward from many first round picks and they still have holes in their midfield, wings, flanks and they have just a workmanlike backline with no flair, kicking ability and average pace. They look like an 8-10 win side to me (and yet to be proven) after 5 years of premium draft picks. I would could that a defnite FAIL.

I do rate McDonald and Melksham as decent but not superstars, Fritsch the same. Although that's 3 players without defensive games. Weid who knows. Petracca required in the midfield. I think we need either a tall forward or a mid sized marking player to pair with Petracca for mid/forward impact and clearly we need a proper dangerous small with a defensive game.

Weitering was up, then down for a couple of years but very much up last year. Big and strong enough to win one on ones now and a great interceptor. If you didn't watch him last year and see improvement you've missed out.

SPS I rate, was good when moved to half back under Teague and just has to keep building his tank and attacking the game more. Talent is absolutely there, was just asked to do too much as a young midfielder.

Dow might turn it around, his speed is still enticing. Marchbank is a serious footballer just in need of some injury luck. O'Brien the kind of elite runner who's a bit soft to begin with but becomes very useful once they start moving the ball. Setterfield still has a huge ceiling and started to produce late in the year.

Cripps - who Sos inherited, plus Curnow and the number 1 picks in Walsh and Weitering are easily the standouts of the rebuild but I like their spread of talent and I think it will start to shine this year. Considering the potential for disaster in tear down rebuilds I think Sos has done really well.

Edited November 9, 20195 yr by DeeSpencer

Not sure it is realistic to call the Carlton process unde SOS a knock-down rebuild. There have been very few mature players of note they've pushed out the door since 2015.  And most of those were pretty keen to find the exit on their own.  Tuohy wanted out, Gibbs wanted out for more than a year before he made his escape at what was a terrific return for the club as well. Almost all the senior exits were made in 2015 too - Henderson, Bell, Menzel, Yarran. Looking at that, it's not as if they were trading our their core!

Meanwhile, I think you could say in any given one of the last five years they brought in more 'age' than they have traded out.

They've ended up with a huge gap in their 23-27 yr age range but that's got more to do with a wave of terrible drafting since... um... yeah. Such quality as they did have, they've held on to.

It's not a good sign for a rebuild if your most valiable Simpson (35) Murphy (32) Kruezer (30) Ed Curnow (30) and now once again the esteeemed Eddie Betts (33).

Annyway, for all that I don't think they've done especially well with list management, there's no mistaking that is a team has even a handful of really great players then it is possible for a collection of 'just pretty good' players to fill it out successfully. All it takes is that moment of belief and a plan that uses the strengths and mitigates the weaknesses. Just look at Richmond and the Dogs.

Carlton employed Bolton, and kept him on past his use-by date, to hold the fort while SOS rebuilt the list. There's a word for that, too.

For a team that pays over the salary cap in paper bags they are hopeless!

21 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

no-one rates SPS who has been disappointing,

 

21 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

SPS I rate,

I rate him too, he's a slow burn but plenty of talent.

Still only 21yo.

On 11/8/2019 at 11:39 PM, old dee said:

Sound well put alternative view dd.

Thanks old dee, I always like to get straight to the point.

Will leave after shaking Martin's hand at the PSD.