Farewell Sam Frost

[red&blue1982 255]

13 hours ago, binman said:

Comparisons between Howe and Frost are ridiculous. I like Frosty but he is not half the player Howe is. One has game sense, is a natural defender and a real weapon with his marking. And it aint Frosty

The comparison is of Frost now and Howe back when he was at Melbourne, why do you state that Frost isn't half the player Howe is? They're at different stages of their carrers. 

I think the comparison is about highlighting the difference between clubs ability to get the most out of players. And if Melbourne can't get the best out of the raw talent that Frost has, other clubs will.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,861]

When did Frost become Gary Ablett? 

First and foremost, Howe is a footy player, whereas Frost an athlete, he lacks footy smarts. He’ll never be anything more than a solid C grader. If we get a second rounder for him it’s a win. 

Edited September 20, 2019 by Ethan Tremblay

[red&blue1982 255]

7 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

When did Frost become Gary Ablett? 

First and foremost, Howe is a footy player, where Frost is an athlete, he lacks footy smarts. He’ll never be anything more than a solid C grader. If we get a second rounder for him it’s a win. 

When did Frost become Gary Ablett?  Hehe, a little overboard.

Howe is revered now, but wasn't at Melbourne. I, with obviously many think it's part of a bad pattern our club.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,861]

1 minute ago, red&blue1982 said:

When did Frost become Gary Ablett?  Hehe, a little overboard.

Howe is revered now, but wasn't at Melbourne. I, with obviously many think it's part of a bad pattern our club.

The Ablett comment wasn’t directed at you r&b, obviously just a tongue in cheek comment, I think a few too many posters are overrating his season and his ability. 

I just don’t think Frost could do much better than he did this year, regardless of what club he’s at. His disposal is poor, he appears to have a poor ‘footy brain’. I do love and appreciate his work rate though. 

[AshleyH30 566]

54 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

 

This post above to me epitomises how little us as supporters generally know from the outside. Our judgments are based purely on what we can see, and we continually fail to consider that there may be extenuating factors that we’re unlikely to be privy to.

I was arguing about the people who assume he's going to automatically and drastically improve his kicking and footy brain because he may go to Hawthorn. I put up Frawley as an example of a player that didn't improve. Yes, I may only have a small window into the football club, but to dismiss my argument like that is stupid. You assume that I don't want to keep Frost, you're dead wrong, but I don't want to miss out on another player because a borderline b grade player wants more money than he's worth. I value his commitment and speed, but we need a hell of a lot more than that at the moment.

[picket fence 17,169]

20 hours ago, Brownie said:

I think there's a couple of key things that think we'd be mad to let him go.

- speed. The games getting faster. Jetta, may and Oscar aren't. He has great closing speed and breaks the lines. 

- size. Who do we have besides and injury prone May to use on the big forwards? Oh that's right, let's crunch Nev.

- improvement. He has consistently improved from being a ball watcher to being more accountable.  People keep bagging his disposal but if you watch the second half of this year, you can see he is now stopping and using the short kicks much more and being more accurate.

- effort. Something that was lacking at the tail end by quite a few others. He keeps putting in. He has the right attitude.

- durability. Nev is getting on, May and Lever are a bit shaky. Do we really want to risk losing one of our best backmen at the moment. He's stayed pretty fit throughout.

We are going to regret letting him go.

Agree, Typically Shocking List management! If he goes watch this really bite hard on the Arrrrzze

[Mach5 4,767]

6 minutes ago, AshleyH30 said:

I was arguing about the people who assume he's going to automatically and drastically improve his kicking and footy brain because he may go to Hawthorn. I put up Frawley as an example of a player that didn't improve. Yes, I may only have a small window into the football club, but to dismiss my argument like that is stupid. You assume that I don't want to keep Frost, you're dead wrong, but I don't want to miss out on another player because a borderline b grade player wants more money than he's worth. I value his commitment and speed, but we need a hell of a lot more than that at the moment.

I don’t think I even read your post. I replied to Redleg, but even still the point stands.

I don’t want to keep Frost for reasons that are continually misconstrued as being a case for keeping him. Attitude is one of his biggest problems and he has demonstrated an unwillingness to change, so we show him the door.

Also the fact he’s a coach-killer with his turnovers. It’s one thing to put in a poor kick, another to run around like a headless chook until ultimately turning he ball over once all your teammates are caught out of position. What value do you attribute to his pace and flair in this case? He may look impressive in moments, but he has a net negative effect on the teams performance.

[Redleg 40,925]

1 hour ago, Mach5 said:

 

Give me nothing but players with work ethic and the right attitude, and the wheel will turn in time.

Not worried about skill and talent?

[AshleyH30 566]

2 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

I don’t think I even read your post. I replied to Redleg, but even still the point stands.

I don’t want to keep Frost for reasons that are continually misconstrued as being a case for keeping him. Attitude is one of his biggest problems and he has demonstrated an unwillingness to change, so we show him the door.

Also the fact he’s a coach-killer with his turnovers. It’s one thing to put in a poor kick, another to run around like a headless chook until ultimately turning he ball over once all your teammates are caught out of position. What value do you attribute to his pace and flair in this case? He may look impressive in moments, but he has a net negative effect on the teams performance.

My post was above yours, so I assumed you were directing at me. If you look at my previous posts, I've argued all the points you have.

I said I valued his pace, but you need more than that if you want to succeed. I've also said in previous posts that I'm shocked by how blinded people are by his pace, and fail to see his other shortcommings.

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by AshleyH30

[Redleg 40,925]

1 hour ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Just two points Red, firstly we don't know what we might get back in the form of a player or pick.  Secondly, if Frost is as good as many here are suggesting we'll have every team in the AFL fighting for his services.

Reality is KPB is probably one area of the ground we are well covered and we have deficiencies elsewhere.  Trade time is when you can fix these issues.  If he goes lets see what we get back, then we can judge.

Have no problem with improving our list. Just surprised he is possibly on way out and others who most don’t rate, stay.

[Mach5 4,767]

3 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Not worried about skill and talent?

I expect they should have a requisite amount of these to make it onto an AFL list. However the work ethic and attitude would see them improve these attributes over time anyway.

[Lucifers Hero 39,811]

29 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Not worried about skill and talent?

 

24 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

I expect they should have a requisite amount of these to make it onto an AFL list. However the work ethic and attitude would see them improve these attributes over time anyway.

Our recruiters must have left skill and talent offer the Demon's job descriptions for a lot of our players...

Lack of skill has been the biggest criticism of our team in recent times, 2018 achievements not withstanding. 

[AshleyH30 566]

29 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

I expect they should have a requisite amount of these to make it onto an AFL list. However the work ethic and attitude would see them improve these attributes over time anyway.

The best players in the league have all 4 attributes; Skill, Talent, Work Ethic, and Commitment. While they can be trained in all the attributes, it is easier to improve someones work ethic and commitment than their skill and talent. Which is why I value the later rather than the former at draft time. If a kid has a well balance of all, then they will go higher in the draft.

Edited September 20, 2019 by AshleyH30

[WERRIDEE 5,479]

If Frost is going because Tomlinson is getting top dollar then don't do it. Frost is a better player.

[Slartibartfast 17,279]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

Have no problem with improving our list. Just surprised he is possibly on way out and others who most don’t rate, stay.

I think the issue with Frost is he's basically a one position player and we have that position covered.  The others you're talking about can cover a number of holes if necessary and would cost much less in terms of TPP.  I know Frost can play, that's why others want him and his value now is probably as high as it will ever be.

[binman 42,972]

2 hours ago, AshleyH30 said:

Said better, didn't say how much...

(As in not much better, but still better).

But you proved my point. Frawley went there and he hasn't improved like everyone is saying Frost would.

Can't see how I proved your point.

Strange point in any case. Frawley had hit his ceiling already. Was good at the dees and stayed at that level.

As an indication of his ability at the dees (and how highly hawks rated him as measured by contract) when hw left as a FA we were given pick 3 compensation.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

5 hours ago, Superunknown said:

But your replied to mine. Weeeeeee!!

Haha ffs

[Mach5 4,767]

1 hour ago, AshleyH30 said:

The best players in the league have all 4 attributes; Skill, Talent, Work Ethic, and Commitment. While they can be trained in all the attributes, it is easier to improve someones work ethic and commitment than their skill and talent. Which is why I value the later rather than the former at draft time. If a kid has a well balance of all, then they will go higher in the draft.

 

The exact opposite is true.

[58er 6,440]

15 hours ago, Demons11 said:

Oscar has no currency and if May and Lever stay fit, then Frost will be lucky to get a game. 

Don't agree 

we need the 3 in most games to mind 3 tallish forwards. Lever to play his intercept role included in the 3.

To be frank I am not so sure on Hibberd Jetta and Hore Will be  up for the whole season based on 2019.

Hibbo erratic and loose and poorish disposal 

Jetta injured seems slower and under pressure more

Hore Good intercept mark but not fast and do we need another tallish player in defence as he is not that strong in one on one key position duels.

Hunt Salem and Sparrow or Nietshke could develop and deliver greater pace and skilhopefully.for the sixth defender (or fifth for that matter).

Frosty  is an X factor IMO and we need about 4 of those players 2 forward and an onballer.also.

Hopefull all these injured players will have an injury free season and our defence can be our strength that it should be.

Frost therefore should NOT be traded unless we get a gun player in lieu of him.

[Redleg 40,925]

1 hour ago, Baghdad Bob said:

I think the issue with Frost is he's basically a one position player and we have that position covered.  The others you're talking about can cover a number of holes if necessary and would cost much less in terms of TPP.  I know Frost can play, that's why others want him and his value now is probably as high as it will ever be.

Well, I suppose we will know the outcome in a few weeks.

[DemonOX 8,791]

7 hours ago, Redleg said:

I am bemused that we have a player who has height and pace and played every game, in this his best season with us and yet  we are not trying to keep him and while we allegedly extend a player like ANB, for 2 years, who is small, not fast, can’t mark, kick or handball and is one of several in his position and who has had a terrible season.

 

It’s because we are a stupid footy club. 

Its the melb way. 

[Demon Disciple 12,127]

It will be interesting to see where he places in the B&F, that will further clarify how the coach views him.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

8 hours ago, red&blue1982 said:

When did Frost become Gary Ablett?  Hehe, a little overboard.

Howe is revered now, but wasn't at Melbourne. I, with obviously many think it's part of a bad pattern our club.

Spot on R&B.  You would think we were a top four or five Vic club the way some believe/d we can easily replace the likes of a Howe/Frosty and attract or just cover with better in a blink.

Wakey wakey guys.  After the dogs breakfast that was 2019 i would wager very few quality FAs will be busting our door down to replace the likes of Frosty that would result in a significant/meaningful upgrade.

Many on here said Howe wasn't worth keeping years ago and there were so many on the list that would or were better as an easy replace/cover (O-Mac, Garlo, Pedo). Yet here we are watching him perform solidly for the Pies year after year and helping them solidify there D,  which he did from day one. How are those others looking? 

While Howe may not have stayed regardless due to the boyhood lure for the Pies, the walter mittys on here never cease to amaze with their daydreaming.

Many were no doubt also applauding the decision to play O-Mac ahead of Frosty and earlier Dunn who was left to rot in the McGoos years ago telling any doubters they were delusional and O-Mac would surpass Dunn within a season or two and already had him covered.

[ignition. 1,466]

On 9/19/2019 at 8:32 PM, Demons11 said:

Oscar has no currency and if May and Lever stay fit, then Frost will be lucky to get a game. 

Disagree completely. Frost is better as a lock-down defender than May. Lever is best as a third tall who can leave his man to roam. The three of them together make a high-quality combination "if" they stay fit.

As for Oscar, he's slow off the mark and weak one-on-one, precisely the opposite of Frost. Oscar isn't even VFL standard, I'd happily see his off the list just to see a spot freed up for someone else.

[Demons11 7,014]

16 minutes ago, ignition. said:

Disagree completely. Frost is better as a lock-down defender than May. Lever is best as a third tall who can leave his man to roam. The three of them together make a high-quality combination "if" they stay fit.

As for Oscar, he's slow off the mark and weak one-on-one, precisely the opposite of Frost. Oscar isn't even VFL standard, I'd happily see his off the list just to see a spot freed up for someone else.

I agree Oscar doesn’t play but with May, Lever, Hore, Petty, Hibbo and Jetta I think we can cover Frost.  It also means we can get Elliot, then I think it’s a win. 

May is a gun and hopefully with getting his body right, will show how good he is.