POSTGAME: Rd 14 vs Fremantle

[Skuit 10,031]

Coupled with the question at the presser which led to Goodwin's defence, Frost has also been described as maligned in the AFL.com write up. I don't think he's been maligned on here since the first couple rounds. How long do people have to not malign you for you to no longer be maligned? I don't expect footy journos to be across the precise form of every player league-wide - but if you don't know something then don't open your mouth or reframe the question. 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Skuit

[daisycutter 29,737]

1 hour ago, frankie_d said:

Because the mean can be skewed by a small number of outlier values - the median may be a better measure of "central tendency" in this case...

https://statistics.laerd.com/statistical-guides/measures-central-tendency-mean-mode-median.php

yes. far better to provide both figures

btw, i think the afl stated averages are somewhat manipulated. the figures don't add if you take the average and multiply it by the total list or the list minus rookies. i suspect it excludes rookies (all types) and new drafted players on the standard 2 year afl contract. just more afl manipulation of stats without explaining qualifications.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,291]

20 hours ago, daisycutter said:

well bub, we did win 3 qtrs and not all those when they had all their injuries

take out some umpire howlers and we win by more

How did Hunt not get a free when an opponent dropped his knees right on to his head? Gawn clipped around the ear no free? Forwards blocked off contests all day, no free?

I'm not one to blame the umpires but we do seem to consistently get the rough end of the stick.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,291]

8 hours ago, Skuit said:

I've decided that Tim Smith hasn't received anywhere near enough praise for his contribution. 3.3 is possibly our highest number of scoring shots by an individual for the season? Keeps taking contested marks. This is a bloke is his 11th game. If he had a different back story/recruitment path he would be being lauded right now. Unfashionable but currently important.

I've written him off previously as a "VFL player" but he looked good yesterday. Good 3rd tall option.

[Watts the matter 1,235]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

How did Hunt not get a free when an opponent dropped his knees right on to his head? Gawn clipped around the ear no free? Forwards blocked off contests all day, no free?

I'm not one to blame the umpires but we do seem to consistently get the rough end of the stick.

To be honest it probably should have been a 50 against Hunt for locking the legs prior to the knee drop, so it was poor umpiring all round.

It was strange that they decided to pluck one blocking in the marking contest against us when they let every other time it happen slide.

 

[John Demonic 5,850]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I've written him off previously as a "VFL player" but he looked good yesterday. Good 3rd tall option.

He has a bit of:

about him.

[DemonOX 8,800]

14 hours ago, Demons1858 said:

Think we cut him some slack. Always played disciplined footy and he was standing up for a mate. Lets not get too hysterical. Not easy playing intense footy and staying on the edge without going over occasionally. His record is excellent in that regard

I know but what if we had lost the game and that was the turning point? I’m not sure your reply would be the same. 

[titan_uranus 25,043]

Yes they were two down on the bench for much of the second half, but Fremantle are a better side than most are giving them credit for.

They've beaten Collingwood at the G and GWS in Sydney. 

Our score of 85 was the second highest score they've conceded all year.

At times we made awful mistakes but as has been mentioned we had a noticeable change in tactics with a lower amount of immediate playing on, less run and carry and more kicking and uncontested marking. When we looked good, we actually looked great.

Lockhart is a beauty IMO. He just wants the ball, he wants to get involved, he's great in close but he can kick too. Viney was a lot better as well, but he still kicks the ball far too high. Fritsch is a much better player across the wing/half-forward, he nailed two inside 50s early but still had a couple of howler turnovers. 

May is a gun. His bodywork is as good as any key defender in the league but he's actually a lot quicker than you'd expect for someone of his build, and importantly he can actually kick the ball. Really, really impressed with these two games from him. Would love to get Lever back out there ASAP so we can get May, Lever, Frost and Hore playing with each other and continuing to build chemistry.

TMac had a terrible first half, he looked completely bereft of confidence and pretty much everything he did was a mistake. But he kept working at it and his second half was a return to 2018 TMac. 

Jones' mistake was careless but Walters dropped his knees to milk it. It was a two-goal turnaround, so if it hadn't happened we'd have won by nearly 5 goals. IMO, this win was more than just them being two down. 

22 hours ago, beelzebub said:

We won...yayyyyyyyy

we managed  to not trip over too many times against a very undermanned walking wounded version of a pretty much so-so team.

We did some things much better...we were still pretty lucky. Today Ill take it.

Tomorrow I'll reflect more and probably think...yeah...we're still bog average...and they were worse.

Finals ??   yeah.....nah !!!

Very undermanned - they had two best 22 players missing (Lobb and Pearce). So wrong there.

Walking wounded - sure, they were two down.

So-so - nope, see above.

This is just completely unnecessarily OTT pessimism.

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

How did Hunt not get a free when an opponent dropped his knees right on to his head? Gawn clipped around the ear no free? Forwards blocked off contests all day, no free?

I'm not one to blame the umpires but we do seem to consistently get the rough end of the stick.

The umpiring was poor, but I don't know if it was all that one-sided against us.

The free to TMac in the fourth quarter where he kicked the goal from 50 was a shocking free. 

[Watts the matter 1,235]

5 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

I know but what if we had lost the game and that was the turning point? I’m not sure your reply would be the same. 

As silly as it was, it was just as bad by the umpire and then our defenders who had an easy ball coming in and completely missed it. 

[DeeZone 10,100]

As the coach said from the 10 minute mark of the 2nd Qtr we were right in the game and it was a bit like an arm wrestle, goal for goal and apart from some poor umpiring decisions we gradually wore then down and player confidence grew until we really got on top of them, they did not register a score in the last 15 minutes of the game. It was hard to watch during the first half, very cold and lots of mistakes and turn overs but the boys kept going in hard and it was a physically hard game all day. By half time I had forgotten about the bleak conditions and I went home hoarse and happy with my son in law.

Go Dee's...!!!

[Dr. Gonzo 24,291]

3 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

To be honest it probably should have been a 50 against Hunt for locking the legs prior to the knee drop, so it was poor umpiring all round.

It was strange that they decided to pluck one blocking in the marking contest against us when they let every other time it happen slide.

 

Players often get "tangled" up with opponents after a mark to delay them, doesn't give the opponent carte blanche to drop their knees straight onto someone's head/neck and risk serious injury. Accidentally get someone a bit high when bumping/blocking you'll be automatically rubbed out, drop your knees straight on to someone's head directly in front of the umpire and nothing at all.

Either the head is sacrosanct or its not. AFL once again trying to have it both ways.

 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,291]

2 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

The umpiring was poor, but I don't know if it was all that one-sided against us.

The free to TMac in the fourth quarter where he kicked the goal from 50 was a shocking free. 

Haven't seen the last quarter yet, was listening in the car in between two kids birthday parties.

[pitmaster 3,578]

4 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

 

The free to TMac in the fourth quarter where he kicked the goal from 50 was a shocking free. 

That was a mark. And called so on the teeve.

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

Has anyone worked out yet why the Dockers got a 50 from the free kick reversal to Walters. Dumb thing by Jones, but Walters completely flopped and umpire should have told him to stand up. He would have been blown over by a heavy sneeze. It was pathetic to watch and because he is a love child of the AFL at the moment, he won’t be scrutinised for how easily he flopped. Unlike Oliver who copped it last year after the Hawthorn final.

Anyway, back to the point. The free was paid to us. Then reversed. The other umpire can be heard yelling “50 metres. It’s from the square”. The TV commentators couldn’t work it out. I understand that if you give a free kick away while a team is kicking in it’s fifty. But we had already been paid a free kick, then reversed. That surely extinguishes the ‘it was from the kick in’ argument. It didn’t end up costing us the game, but surely would have been a bigger talking point if it had. The umpire completely lost control of the game at that point and the 50 seemed to be a mistake. A mistake made far worse due to the fact that the new 50 rules allowed the Dockers to run 120 metres 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Leoncelli_36

[Dame Gaga 2,453]

44 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

That was a mark. And called so on the teeve.

I agree. Tommy took that mark right in front of us at the ground. Good strong mark. It was only pulled from his hands when he hit the ground. The umpire paid it as a mark. I was surprised, because the umpiring was a bit poor all day for Tom and I saw him complaining to the umpire at one stage in the third quarter while plucking at his jumper. He was being held by the Freo defenders but their forwards got the benefit of some doubtful free kicks so he was probably wondering why not the same for him. In the last quarter he got his act together, and the umpires improved as well, in my view. It was a great last quarter to watch.

[Dees2014 2,377]

On 6/22/2019 at 5:28 PM, Diamond_Jim said:

I see according to the AFL stats we almost broke even on centre clearances.

Strange because I can barely remember one good clearance. I raise this because we have the best or second best ruckman and Oliver who is at the top of the clearance specialists.

What I saw was a lot of fumbles and good wide clearances by Freo that were then well defended by our Defence who no doubt won us the game.

Great win and hopefully a good follow up next week against the Lions... Could Preuss get a game..probably not

He should, he was great in the twos, particularly the first half. I reckon he is worth a go, good back up for Gawn, and would help put more pressure on Martin.

[samcantstandya 1,057]

12 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Yes they were two down on the bench for much of the second half, but Fremantle are a better side than most are giving them credit for.

They've beaten Collingwood at the G and GWS in Sydney. 

Our score of 85 was the second highest score they've conceded all year.

At times we made awful mistakes but as has been mentioned we had a noticeable change in tactics with a lower amount of immediate playing on, less run and carry and more kicking and uncontested marking. When we looked good, we actually looked great.

Lockhart is a beauty IMO. He just wants the ball, he wants to get involved, he's great in close but he can kick too. Viney was a lot better as well, but he still kicks the ball far too high. Fritsch is a much better player across the wing/half-forward, he nailed two inside 50s early but still had a couple of howler turnovers. 

May is a gun. His bodywork is as good as any key defender in the league but he's actually a lot quicker than you'd expect for someone of his build, and importantly he can actually kick the ball. Really, really impressed with these two games from him. Would love to get Lever back out there ASAP so we can get May, Lever, Frost and Hore playing with each other and continuing to build chemistry.

TMac had a terrible first half, he looked completely bereft of confidence and pretty much everything he did was a mistake. But he kept working at it and his second half was a return to 2018 TMac. 

Jones' mistake was careless but Walters dropped his knees to milk it. It was a two-goal turnaround, so if it hadn't happened we'd have won by nearly 5 goals. IMO, this win was more than just them being two down. 

Very undermanned - they had two best 22 players missing (Lobb and Pearce). So wrong there.

Walking wounded - sure, they were two down.

So-so - nope, see above.

This is just completely unnecessarily OTT pessimism.

The umpiring was poor, but I don't know if it was all that one-sided against us.

The free to TMac in the fourth quarter where he kicked the goal from 50 was a shocking free. 

Jones was ill-disciplined, we were about to receive a kick 4 goal. They ended up kicking one instead. Sure fly the flag but what he did was dumb.

Edited June 23, 2019 by samcantstandya
spelling

[Wells 11 5,422]

44 minutes ago, samcantstandya said:

Jones was ill-disciplined, we were about to receive a kick 4 goal. They ended up kicking one instead. Sure fly the flag but what he did was dumb.

Can’t help thinking that if that was Oliver that dropped his knees and fell like that in that jones bump  it would have been the headline. Kane Cornes in “ the round so far” rightly pointed out the action and suggested the ump should never have paid that free. It was perhaps clumsy by Jones but not “ Ill disciplined” as his action was v minor. Walters really milked a few frees yesterday ...and tried to attack viney off the ball. Sooner or later the umps will wake up to him. 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Wells 11

[binman 43,757]

49 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

Can’t help thinking that if that was Oliver that dropped his knees and fell like that in that jones bump  it would have been the headline. Kane Cornes in “ the round so far” rightly pointed out the action and suggested the ump should never have paid that free. It was perhaps clumsy by Jones but not “ Ill disciplined” as his action was v minor. Walters really milked a few frees yesterday ...and tried to attack viney off the ball. Sooner or later the umps will wake up to him. 

It was definitely Ill discipled.

Agree walters flopped. But he did so to get a free and was successful. Stupid from Jones. As his coach and apparently his teammates told him at 3 q time. We had all the momentum and a certain goal was lost.

But as goody said he played his part in the last.

I was impressed actually that we didn't lose the momentum and kept going. Obviously the team didn't dwell on the incident, which is a good sign.

 

[Wells 11 5,422]

1 hour ago, binman said:

It was definitely Ill discipled.

Agree walters flopped. But he did so to get a free and was successful. Stupid from Jones. As his coach and apparently his teammates told him at 3 q time. We had all the momentum and a certain goal was lost.

But as goody said he played his part in the last.

I was impressed actually that we didn't lose the momentum and kept going. Obviously the team didn't dwell on the incident, which is a good sign.

 

I Still think , re watching the vision, that the bigger story was the clear and dangerous milking. Ie  dropping the knees and extending the chin w the  intention to create head high contact ,  not the fairly innocuous bump. 

But yes...It WAS always  risky right there  in front of the ump, especially  when we had a free shot on goal . I wanted to kill jones at the time.If it was a final and we lost he’d never live that down.  Its just on watching it a few times I felt the ump just got that SO  frikn wrong. 

Maybe some lingering resentment in me from that west coast game a cpl years ago. when , was it Kennedy?  came thru t huddle of players after the half time siren w his elbow raised , whacked Oliver on the chin and he fell. And all the talk was should Oliver b suspended fr diving. Still makes me angry!  

 

[Lucifers Hero 40,359]

Fyfe on Walters' headbutt

Fyfe argues that Walters is 'terrorised'  off the ball.  Not a justification for headbutting, especially as he has form having headbutted Dodee last year and was suspended for a week.  Hasn't learnt his lesson. 

Edited June 24, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[Dee Zephyr 19,268]

Listening to SEN a short time ago and I was a little shocked to hear David King say that he believes Jones will lose the captaincy over his incident on the weekend. If anyone else listened in feel free to correct me, but I’m certain that is what I heard King say.

Now, Jones might step aside, he might not next year or he might get told we are heading in another direction in terms of leadership, but I found the remark by King a little over the top to be honest. Call it a brain fade, ill disciplined, a flop by the flopper, flying the flag, whatever... I don’t believe this incident alone will cost Jones the captaincy. 

People were up in arms on here as to why no one flew the flag for Max having his head rubbed against the Eagles. Probably would have ended up in a double play for the Eagles.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Dee Zephyr

[Wells 11 5,422]

22 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Fyfe on Walters' headbutt

Fyfe argues that Walters is 'terrorised'  off the ball.  Not a justification for headbutting, especially as he has form having headbutted Dodee last year and was suspended for a week.  Hasn't learnt his lesson. 

From the looks,  he does a fair bit of terrorising himself and no doubt brings some attention on. suspend him.

[Wells 11 5,422]

1 minute ago, Dee Zephyr said:

Listening to SEN a short time ago and I was a little shocked to hear David King say that he believe Jones will lose the captaincy over his incident on the weekend. If anyone else listened in feel free to correct me, but I’m certain that is what I heard King say.

Now, Jones might step aside, he might not next year or he might get told we are heading in another direction in terms of leadership, but I found the remark by King a little over the top to be honest. Call it a brain fade, ill disciplined, a flop by the flopper, flying the flag, whatever... I don’t believe this incident alone will cost Jones the captaincy. 

People were up in arms on here as to why no one flew the flag for Max having his head rubbed against the Eagles. Probably would have ended up in a double play for the Eagles.

 

King, twice in a week. Whack on Pert re McCartney and now this. He can say he was right when we change leadership at years end...but the thought that that act cost him the captaincy is utter and out and out  stupidity. King tipped us for the flag and feels made a fool of by the club I think,  so hes getting his own back. [censored] him. 

[drysdale demon 4,837]

8 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

King, twice in a week. Whack on Pert re McCartney and now this. He can say he was right when we change leadership at years end...but the thought that that act cost him the captaincy is utter and out and out  stupidity. King tipped us for the flag and feels made a fool of by the club I think,  so hes getting his own back. [censored] him. 

 

9 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

King tipped us for the flag and feels made a fool of by the club I think,  so hes getting his own back. [censored] him. 

Yep, once a DH always a DH