On 29/07/2019 at 11:58, FireInTheBelly said:

 

1 can only hope.

Here's a question. What if TMac were to say if you get rid of O, I'm out as well?

Bye mate! Have zero issue if he did and would be happy to see the back of him. In saying that from listening to him he wouldn’t do that, he’s smarter than that, he knows it’s a performance job.

  On 29/07/2019 at 13:46, Patches O’houlihan said:

Must keep pick 2 at all costs. i'd be offering our 2020 first round pick and our 2019 second round pick for Hill and Langdon, and a later pick or something like that. and bank on us not finishing down the bottom again. 

if we can add in Hill, Langdon and Anderson i think we are in a good spot, especially if we look at maybe a Dan Butler for some forward pressure and a key forward, even a short term solution to support Tommy 

Plus they’ll want Brayshaw (maybe...).

  On 29/07/2019 at 09:12, FireInTheBelly said:

Ok, so who won't be a Demon in 2020?

Shawly it's Braysure

Melbourne are weighing up whether they have the capacity to join St Kilda and several other clubs in the chase for Fremantle speedster Brad Hill.

The Demons are keen on Hill – viewing him as the ideal type of player to complement their inside midfielders – but it is unclear whether they will have sufficient salary-cap room to make a serious bid for the contracted midfielder, whom the Dockers have maintained will not be traded.

Demons on Hill trail, but will they go the distance?

  On 31/07/2019 at 10:02, Lord Nev said:

Melbourne are weighing up whether they have the capacity to join St Kilda and several other clubs in the chase for Fremantle speedster Brad Hill.

The Demons are keen on Hill – viewing him as the ideal type of player to complement their inside midfielders – but it is unclear whether they will have sufficient salary-cap room to make a serious bid for the contracted midfielder, whom the Dockers have maintained will not be traded.

Demons on Hill trail, but will they go the distance?

Suddenly even the 260,000 for Jones looks not even worth bothering about, loyalty aside, if it means we miss out on Hill to the Saints. And the difference between us and the Hawks looks even starker, given what they're willing to do to bring elite talent into the door.

Edited July 31, 20195 yr by John Demonic

  On 31/07/2019 at 11:13, John Demonic said:

Suddenly even the 260,000 for Jones looks not even worth bothering about, loyalty aside, if it means we miss out on Hill to the Saints.

Given the length and timing of Jones' last contract I would think whatever he gets next year would be considerably less anyway.

Plus, Lewis contract off the books, Jack Watts' partial payment off the books (thanks Mahoney), Garlett - whose contract situation would have been similar to Jones re: timing etc. Those factors would help a fair bit IMO.

And not forgetting, we have to trade to get Hill, so likely either a player on good coin goes or a high pick (who would have got good coin eventually) goes. All works out.

  On 31/07/2019 at 11:18, Lord Nev said:

Given the length and timing of Jones' last contract I would think whatever he gets next year would be considerably less anyway.

Plus, Lewis contract off the books, Jack Watts' partial payment off the books (thanks Mahoney), Garlett - whose contract situation would have been similar to Jones re: timing etc. Those factors would help a fair bit IMO.

And not forgetting, we have to trade to get Hill, so likely either a player on good coin goes or a high pick (who would have got good coin eventually) goes. All works out.

2020 first round pick for Hill, and a late pick 2019 coming back. The late pick salary is 70k. There's 200 saved already. I'm not saying we should move Jones on, and creative accounting as you mentioned is preferable. But i'm just illustrating the difference between telling a club legend to move to another club if they want two years or more money for one year, is preferable than paying any amount of money that hinders acquiring talent we have our sights set on. And if we're going to be outbid on Hill, then you have to question why we'd want Jones for another year in the first place, given it frees up more money to Hill.

If we made offers for Gaff mid year last year when we thought Hogan was staying, it means we do have a certain amount left over up that is't tied up on planned contracts/extensions of our other core players. So I don't think we necessarily have to move on Brayshaw to acquire Hill.

Edited July 31, 20195 yr by John Demonic
An edit to clarify point

  On 29/07/2019 at 10:03, Forest Demon said:

Pick 2 has to be off the table as we can’t pass on the opportunity of a pick at the pointy end of the draft.

Don’t mind the idea of our 2020 1st rounder being on the table though.

I just had a terrible dream where we finished last in 2020 and had to watch Freo use pick 1....

?

I'm not interested at the price. He's 26, is he really going to be the type of player to play consistently well after 30? 

Elite outside runner, best in the business.
Above average but not amazing skills.
Below average at the contest.

68% disposal efficiency, 5.2 contested possessions a game, 2.3 tackles. 

If you draft Xavier Duursma you've got 3/4's of the player already in year 1 and you've got him for 3 or 4 years at a far cheaper contract and for 10+ years if you develop him properly.

Karl Amon probably gets you 80% or more of the output for the next 4 years at half the price and half the trade cost.

Tom Cutler at the Lions is available for a big body and booming kick. 

There's got to be other options rather than paying absolute top price for a player that won't give a long term return. Either we bounce back to a good side next year or we don't with or without Hill. And yeah if we do then he might get us closer to a flag next year but if we don't make a strong bounce back then we'll be left thinking wtf did we do that for.

  On 31/07/2019 at 11:42, DeeSpencer said:

I'm not interested at the price. He's 26, is he really going to be the type of player to play consistently well after 30? 

Elite outside runner, best in the business.
Above average but not amazing skills.
Below average at the contest.

68% disposal efficiency, 5.2 contested possessions a game, 2.3 tackles. 

If you draft Xavier Duursma you've got 3/4's of the player already in year 1 and you've got him for 3 or 4 years at a far cheaper contract and for 10+ years if you develop him properly.

Karl Amon probably gets you 80% or more of the output for the next 4 years at half the price and half the trade cost.

Tom Cutler at the Lions is available for a big body and booming kick. 

There's got to be other options rather than paying absolute top price for a player that won't give a long term return. Either we bounce back to a good side next year or we don't with or without Hill. And yeah if we do then he might get us closer to a flag next year but if we don't make a strong bounce back then we'll be left thinking wtf did we do that for.

Please tell me your joking, my god.

have you actually seen Hill play before? Saying we would get almost the exact same player in Karl Amon or Tom Cutler is laughable 

Freo and Bell will be asking for the world in terms of picks for him, a 1st rounder is way too high a price for us to pay.

  On 31/07/2019 at 11:49, DemonLad5 said:

Please tell me your joking, my god.

have you actually seen Hill play before? Saying we would get almost the exact same player in Karl Amon or Tom Cutler is laughable 

Have you seen Karl Amon play this year? He's vastly improved. Kicks the ball better than Hill and is stronger at the contest. I didn't say Cutler was on Hill's level but he's another option to fill a need at a far cheaper price.

Hill's a great player, but if you have a strong outside runner to match up with him or a disciplined game plan he's not doing a whole heap of damage. He just so happens to be off the charts at one of our biggest weaknesses but that doesn't mean he's going to be worth the asking price.

 

  On 31/07/2019 at 10:02, Lord Nev said:

Melbourne are weighing up whether they have the capacity to join St Kilda and several other clubs in the chase for Fremantle speedster Brad Hill.

The Demons are keen on Hill – viewing him as the ideal type of player to complement their inside midfielders – but it is unclear whether they will have sufficient salary-cap room to make a serious bid for the contracted midfielder, whom the Dockers have maintained will not be traded.

Demons on Hill trail, but will they go the distance?

I thought I remember Mahoney claiming last year after the trading period that we had space for another big name this year?

I do NOT want Hill on the basis that i know Mahoney and co would trade pick 2.

We have the potential to pick up a future superstar in Noah Anderson who is destined to have a good 12 year career.

  On 31/07/2019 at 12:20, dazzledavey36 said:

I do NOT want Hill on the basis that i know Mahoney and co would trade pick 2.

We have the potential to pick up a future superstar in Noah Anderson who is destined to have a good 12 year career.

What if it was our 2020 1st rounder for Hill, Dazzle? There are many ways to skin a cat. 

  On 31/07/2019 at 12:23, Moonshadow said:

What if it was our 2020 1st rounder for Hill, Dazzle? There are many ways to skin a cat. 

He’s not worth pick 1. 

  On 31/07/2019 at 12:23, Moonshadow said:

What if it was our 2020 1st rounder for Hill, Dazzle? There are many ways to skin a cat. 

He will want to go home again by 2020 so maybe they could then trade it back to us.

He wanted home to WA, now he want's back to Vic because of his misses, they split up next year & then he want's back home to WA...

I don't think he's worth anything more than a 2nd round punt.

  On 31/07/2019 at 12:41, rjay said:

He will want to go home again by 2020 so maybe they could then trade it back to us.

He wanted home to WA, now he want's back to Vic because of his misses, they split up next year & then he want's back home to WA...

I don't think he's worth anything more than a 2nd round punt.

that fact that he's commanding $800k a year says he's immediately worth FAR more than a second rounder

  On 31/07/2019 at 13:19, whatwhatsaywhat said:

that fact that he's commanding $800k a year says he's immediately worth FAR more than a second rounder

I think it says more about the desperation of clubs like St Kilda, North & maybe us to a lesser extent that players contracts are being over valued in the fight to get them to sign.

  On 31/07/2019 at 13:41, rjay said:

I think it says more about the desperation of clubs like St Kilda, North & maybe us to a lesser extent that players contracts are being over valued in the fight to get them to sign.

possibly

but if yr freo and another club is offering a contracted player $800k a year for, presumably, four or five years, then absolutely yr hand is out saying 'first round pick or no dice'

  On 31/07/2019 at 13:42, whatwhatsaywhat said:

possibly

but if yr freo and another club is offering a contracted player $800k a year for, presumably, four or five years, then absolutely yr hand is out saying 'first round pick or no dice'

There's definitely no way I would part with the coin or pick 2 for Hill.

  On 31/07/2019 at 13:44, rjay said:

There's definitely no way I would part with the coin or pick 2 for Hill.

tell peter bell he's dreamin!

the coin doesn't worry me, particularly, but pick 2 would be absurd, unless they were chucking their first rounder (circa pick 9) back, and even then i would want to know whether our prospective pick 2 has been bumped down to pick 3 and thus ruling us out of rowell / anderson thanks to gifts to gc17

Edited July 31, 20195 yr by whatwhatsaywhat

Sorry guys, being dumb here...

I thought we couldn't trade this years 1st pick?

Can someone explain it to me?

Keep the salary cap room for Lachie Whitfield in 2020.

Pump the draft for all the speedy good kicks available. Trade up and down, and even on draft night, to get to the right spots to grab them at appropriate value.

Ta da.

  On 31/07/2019 at 10:02, Lord Nev said:

Melbourne are weighing up whether they have the capacity to join St Kilda and several other clubs in the chase for Fremantle speedster Brad Hill.

The Demons are keen on Hill – viewing him as the ideal type of player to complement their inside midfielders – but it is unclear whether they will have sufficient salary-cap room to make a serious bid for the contracted midfielder, whom the Dockers have maintained will not be traded.

Demons on Hill trail, but will they go the distance?

Wonder if Saints are willing to give up pick 5 for Hill? Seems steep, but they don't have much else in terms of picks after trading away their 2019 2nd & 3rd rd picks last year.

  On 31/07/2019 at 12:20, dazzledavey36 said:

I do NOT want Hill on the basis that i know Mahoney and co would trade pick 2.

We have the potential to pick up a future superstar in Noah Anderson who is destined to have a good 12 year career.

Maybe we can package pick 20 & 38 for a mid 1st round pick (and maybe something back the other way) and trade that pick (15ish) for Hill. Suns hold Brisbane's 1st rd pick and (at this stage) don't pick again till 49. Might be happy to nab the extra picks for any bids on Conor Budarick, or even just to have extra selections.