19 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

He is a better player than AVB simply because he gets on the park, he also had more tackles than Rioli Higgins and Stack that day, yep 3 touche sisnt great butthey got beaten by 67 points so it wasnt a great day for lost of them

We need to keep turning our depth players over, he is an option, happy for you to disagree.

 

An injured AVB is a better player then Townsend.

Just now, dazzledavey36 said:

An injured AVB is a better player then Townsend.

Lol. Good chat.

I think our forward structure woes can be fixed a great deal by targeting better mids and more skilled players we have the grunt, we need Tmac, Weid staying fit and another tall option which won't break the bank to have Tmac, Weid, Petty and a F/A

Einstein knows we need outside skill and a medium to small crumbling forward

Trade in

4 of

Langdon for 2nd round pick

Casboult free agent takes a good defender away from McDonald 

Sam Gray out of contract

Hugh Greenwood we need mids who can kick goals

Have a look at what the Lions want for Lewis Taylor, if somehow we can off load ANB in this trade do it

Consider Tomlinson 

Obviously Brad Hill but don't pay overs

Pick 2 gets used on midfield class Anderson but I'm not against trading down for 2 first rounders and somehow taking 2 of Ash/Kemp/Serong

3rd rounder goes on best available outside runner

Out

JKH sorry we need to be like the Hawks put lines through them and take another

Keilty 

T Smith

Maynard

Hunt not a popular choice but he's IMO only ever going to be a cameo player, makes poor decisions and lacks composure, I think you may get a late 2nd rounder for him or used in another trade

Pruess only if we get the right offer GWS desperate for a ruckman as are the Cats but he only goes for the right price otherwise he remains as Maxy's back up

Stretch like JKH make the call

ANB trade

there's others who are way down the depth charts but have played games and you always need low contract depth

The ambit claims have started:  Adelaide and St Kilda are prepared to trade their top rnd 1 picks for two lower rnd 1 picks or the 'right price'. top-draft-picks-on-the-table

This probably reflects the view that the draft falls away quite quickly after #1 and #2.

If GCS get pick #2 as a pp we may end up joining the party and try and trade it for two lower rnd 1 picks. 

3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

The ambit claims have started:  Adelaide and St Kilda are prepared to trade their top rnd 1 picks for two lower rnd 1 picks or the 'right price'. top-draft-picks-on-the-table

This probably reflects the view that the draft falls away quite quickly after #1 and #2.

If GCS get pick #2 as a pp we may end up joining the party and try and trade it for two lower rnd 1 picks. 

King and a lower first.....

Again its pretty quiet on the Demons front and who they may have in mind. We know Langdon, and i think most clubs that could would be interested in Hill. But I have not heard anything about potential small fwds, and i know we have Bedford and Chandler in the 2s but we should be into Sam Gray.

Are there any other whispers or news out there re: potential trades for us? and would we trade pick 2 and miss out on Rowell and Anderson for 2 picks inside the top 10 (and later pick swaps) be good to get a gauge on what everyone thinks?

Edited August 14, 20195 yr by Demon3

13 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

Again its pretty quiet on the Demons front and who they may have in mind. We know Langdon, and i think most clubs that could would be interested in Hill. But I have not heard anything about potential small fwds, and i know we have Bedford and Chandler in the 2s but we should be into Sam Gray.

Are there any other whispers or news out there re: potential trades for us? and would we trade pick 2 and miss out on Rowell and Anderson for 2 picks inside the top 10 (and later pick swaps) be good to get a gauge on what everyone thinks?

Names I've heard enough noise about for it to be an actual possibility...

Langdon - Can pretty much lock him in from what I've heard. 85% chance.

Zak Jones - Not saying I want him necessarily, but there is noise. 50% chance.

Ryan Schoenmakers - Apparently we've been keen in the past, not a big chance, but being looked at. 20% chance.

Alex Keath - Not "chasing" him, but keeping an eye on proceedings. The belief has been the rumours have been more manager tactic. 10% chance.

The 'chances' are just my guess so don't take that as gospel at this stage. There's been plenty of other rumours (Hill, Tomlinson etc), but I haven't heard much about anything else as yet.

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

Names I've heard enough noise about for it to be an actual possibility...

Langdon - Can pretty much lock him in from what I've heard. 85% chance.

Zak Jones - Not saying I want him necessarily, but there is noise. 50% chance.

Ryan Schoenmakers - Apparently we've been keen in the past, not a big chance, but being looked at. 20% chance.

Alex Keath - Not "chasing" him, but keeping an eye on proceedings. The belief has been the rumours have been more manager tactic. 10% chance.

The 'chances' are just my guess so don't take that as gospel at this stage. There's been plenty of other rumours (Hill, Tomlinson etc), but I haven't heard much about anything else as yet.

Thanks LN, that all sounds about right, Shoenmakers the interesting one.. I have called for what interest are we showing in a small fwd, but the news of Chandlers debut might answer that, hope the kid goes well.

1 minute ago, Demon3 said:

Thanks LN, that all sounds about right, Shoenmakers the interesting one.. I have called for what interest are we showing in a small fwd, but the news of Chandlers debut might answer that, hope the kid goes well.

I'm sure we would be looking hard for small forwards and running types, I just haven't heard anything myself in regards to it.

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

I'm sure we would be looking hard for small forwards and running types, I just haven't heard anything myself in regards to it.

Yeah i hope so, and im sure they are as well.

On 8/12/2019 at 4:20 PM, Pennant St Dee said:

I think our forward structure woes can be fixed a great deal by targeting better mids and more skilled players we have the grunt, we need Tmac, Weid staying fit and another tall option which won't break the bank to have Tmac, Weid, Petty and a F/A

Einstein knows we need outside skill and a medium to small crumbling forward

Trade in

4 of

Langdon for 2nd round pick

Casboult free agent takes a good defender away from McDonald 

Sam Gray out of contract

Hugh Greenwood we need mids who can kick goals

Have a look at what the Lions want for Lewis Taylor, if somehow we can off load ANB in this trade do it

Consider Tomlinson 

Obviously Brad Hill but don't pay overs

Pick 2 gets used on midfield class Anderson but I'm not against trading down for 2 first rounders and somehow taking 2 of Ash/Kemp/Serong

3rd rounder goes on best available outside runner

Out

JKH sorry we need to be like the Hawks put lines through them and take another

Keilty 

T Smith

Maynard

Hunt not a popular choice but he's IMO only ever going to be a cameo player, makes poor decisions and lacks composure, I think you may get a late 2nd rounder for him or used in another trade

Pruess only if we get the right offer GWS desperate for a ruckman as are the Cats but he only goes for the right price otherwise he remains as Maxy's back up

Stretch like JKH make the call

ANB trade

there's others who are way down the depth charts but have played games and you always need low contract depth

That would be an awfully uninspiring off-season. 

Sounds Neeld-esque to me. 

With a fully fit list at the Lions there must be some good players who just can't get a game.  I don't know their list very well but there could be some ex Vic players happy to come back and get regular games. 

Any ideas?

Before even contemplating who we need to trade for and bring in, let's consider the following two important points:

* The Darren Burgess factor. One can only imagine that Goodwin and Darren's number one priority will be having as many players as possible ready to go from November for a full and uninterrupted pre-season (@Satyriconhome). Over the last few weeks and even month, we've seen certain players listed as 'season' for injuries. It seems obvious that some of those names will be having surgery now in order to be ready for November. Without even looking at list tinkering and needs, a full pre-season with one iota of 'injury luck' going our way from November through to February will have a significant impact for the following reasons and I'll stress that all of these reasons are interconnected:

- Our most important and key players completing full- loads. Oliver, Brayshaw, Petracca, Salem, Viney, Tom Mac, Weed, Melksham, Lever, May, Gawn. Completing a full load allows for players to play at their best (see my Jack Viney thread post) and just as importantly allows them to get through the rigours of an AFL season. 

- Equally as critical, full numbers on the track allows for and builds: morale, cohesion, comfortability, accountability and confidence within the group. It allows for players to learn how one another play. Steven May and Jake Lever for instance. What kind of an impact will a full pre-season and training in the same backline together over a summer have? 

- Then there's the coaches and the importance of having a full and healthy list to run full squad drills and plays, line plays, craft days, game plans etc. Obviously this goes hand-in-hand with the above in regards to what kind of impact this is having at an individual level. 

 

* The second point is the Goodwin factor. What we know right now is that he has survived and the assistants have payed the ultimate price. One can only hope to assume that this year will have felt like a giant slap in the face for him and will force him look introspectively and with that, learn from his own mistakes this year and change some of his ways for the better. 

Just like Buckley and Hardwick before him, this is now his chance to grow as a coach, leader, player manager, people manager, strategist, etc etc. He must embrace it and cop the criticism that has been more than fairly dished his way. 

That is the silver lining in this utterly disgraceful year. The opportunity for us to bring in some new assistant coaches will give rise to fresh ideas that may perhaps challenge Goodwin's. Whenever new leaders (coaches) are brought in to an organisation, it more often than not generates a new wave of positive habits for employees wanting to impress. There are a multitude of positive outcomes and flow-on effects that new group of coaches can bring and I believe that we've done the right thing.

 

I'll post my list changes at a later time, but the two points above will have a hugely positive effect on the club, (providing it all goes to plan) and we get some luck. 

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 20195 yr by stevethemanjordan

49 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Before even contemplating who we need to trade for and bring in, let's consider the following two important points:

* The Darren Burgess factor. One can only imagine that Goodwin and Darren's number one priority will be having as many players as possible ready to go from November for a full and uninterrupted pre-season (@Satyriconhome). Over the last few weeks and even month, we've seen certain players listed as 'season' for injuries. It seems obvious that some of those names will be having surgery now in order to be ready for November. Without even looking at list tinkering and needs, a full pre-season with one iota of 'injury luck' going our way from November through to February will have a significant impact for the following reasons and I'll stress that all of these reasons are interconnected:

- Our most important and key players completing full- loads. Oliver, Brayshaw, Petracca, Salem, Viney, Tom Mac, Weed, Melksham, Lever, May, Gawn. Completing a full load allows for players to play at their best (see my Jack Viney thread post) and just as importantly allows them to get through the rigours of an AFL season. 

- Equally as critical, full numbers on the track allows for and builds: morale, cohesion, comfortability, accountability and confidence within the group. It allows for players to learn how one another play. Steven May and Jake Lever for instance. What kind of an impact will a full pre-season and training in the same backline together over a summer have? 

- Then there's the coaches and the importance of having a full and healthy list to run full squad drills and plays, line plays, craft days, game plans etc. Obviously this goes hand-in-hand with the above in regards to what kind of impact this is having at an individual level. 

 

* The second point is the Goodwin factor. What we know right now is that he has survived and the assistants have payed the ultimate price. One can only hope to assume that this year will have felt like a giant slap in the face for him and will force him look introspectively and with that, learn from his own mistakes this year and change some of his ways for the better. 

Just like Buckley and Hardwick before him, this is now his chance to grow as a coach, leader, player manager, people manager, strategist, etc etc. He must embrace it and cop the criticism that has been more than fairly dished his way. 

That is the silver lining in this utterly disgraceful year. The opportunity for us to bring in some new assistant coaches will give rise to fresh ideas that may perhaps challenge Goodwin's. Whenever new leaders (coaches) are brought in to an organisation, it more often than not generates a new wave of positive habits for employees wanting to impress. There are a multitude of positive outcomes and flow-on effects that new group of coaches can bring and I believe that we've done the right thing.

 

I'll post my list changes at a later time, but the two points above will have a hugely positive effect on the club, (providing it all goes to plan) and we get some luck. 

 

 

 

I like it when you actually talk about football.

17 hours ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

King and a lower first.....

IF it could be done, you would grab it.

Say pick 2 and ANB and the Wagners, giving Anderson and experience to GCS and King and a lower first round pick to us.

That would take care of our needed extra key forward and in years to come, second ruckman. You would have Tom Mac, Weid, King and Petty.

You could then concentrate on pace and small forwards with the rest of your drafting/trading. Langdon if you could get him, would solve the running half back problem and you would be looking a better team.

 

20 minutes ago, Redleg said:

IF it could be done, you would grab it.

Say pick 2 and ANB and the Wagners, giving Anderson and experience to GCS and King and a lower first round pick to us.

That would take care of our needed extra key forward and in years to come, second ruckman. You would have Tom Mac, Weid, King and Petty.

You could then concentrate on pace and small forwards with the rest of your drafting/trading. Langdon if you could get him, would solve the running half back problem and you would be looking a better team.

 

I could see this happening, with our without them getting a priority pick.

I actually think they should get a priority pick. But i'd give them two. End of firts round and another beginning of second round. gives them the option of drafting in two pretty good players or using the picks to trade in one or two experienced players.

In that scenario they might offer a want away king to us for pick 2. I think a straight swap probably gets that done but as you say Red we could include a mid 20 year old players like ANB and Corey Wagner and get their other first round pick back.

If GC do not get a PP no. 1 then I think we use pick 2 on Anderson or Rowell. If GC get the priority (spew, spew) then GWS will be keen to swap for it as they want Green and a player with say the Ds pick 3. A couple of first rounders and maybe a player for pick 3? GWS will likely get a 1st round for Coniglio if he goes.

Never know we may want a player like Ash who has pace or Young who is pretty quick as well. However it is they need pace and outside smarts. Our quick players tend to ok but only in a straight line.

We have recruited largely inside contested players. No amount of training can stop their instinct to be drawn to the ball. Playing Brayshaw etc on the wing shows this. Reduces a good inside player to an average outside player.

Get a couple of really good outside smart players and we will cut the number of opposition goals from turnovers. Notice how for example how many times the magpies got the ball out of a pack to an outside player. It was frustrating how they do it but we stuff up.

1 hour ago, manny100 said:

If GC do not get a PP no. 1 then I think we use pick 2 on Anderson or Rowell. If GC get the priority (spew, spew) then GWS will be keen to swap for it as they want Green and a player with say the Ds pick 3. A couple of first rounders and maybe a player for pick 3? GWS will likely get a 1st round for Coniglio if he goes.

Never know we may want a player like Ash who has pace or Young who is pretty quick as well. However it is they need pace and outside smarts. Our quick players tend to ok but only in a straight line.

We have recruited largely inside contested players. No amount of training can stop their instinct to be drawn to the ball. Playing Brayshaw etc on the wing shows this. Reduces a good inside player to an average outside player.

Get a couple of really good outside smart players and we will cut the number of opposition goals from turnovers. Notice how for example how many times the magpies got the ball out of a pack to an outside player. It was frustrating how they do it but we stuff up.

I've been watching some of the highlights of Rowell, Ash and Anderson on the NAB league app. Anderson really stands out, absolute class. Not that impressed with Rowell - Oliver 2.0 but without the tricks. Good burst but kicking and decision-making not the best. Ash's most recent game playing midfield was very impressive and addressed some of the question marks around him - lots of clearances and contested possessions (in addition to good overhead marking, trademark speed). I'd be taking him before Rowell without a second thought.

Yes, Its not always the pre draft favourites that go in predicted order. I would not be surprised if we go Ash either. 

Langdon for 2nd round 2019 and swap of 1st rounders in 2020 with Freo. Outside run on the wing  GET HIM IN  

Schoenmakers 25yo who can be traded in for a 4th round pick 59-62 pick - 3rd tall or backup for Weid  - Good Eye for the goals  

#2-3 Ash -18yo  instantly walks into wing opposite Langdon  ; big call needed if Rowell was available 

#39 Bergman - 18yo classy youngster from the Dragons    Suits our need to get skilled footballers in  

# 75 - Brodie Newman 18yo  super talent  doesn’t get all the recognition  like an Easton Wood type   Competitive skilled wins the footy 192cm   Allows Salem into a roll in mid if needed

# 77- will Fordham 23yo  (Frankston VFL) classy skilled midfielder who runs and accumulates OR Matthew Allen - eagles listed but  stars everyweek in wafl (wasted)

upgrade to the list. Dunkley. Lockhart.  CWagner

Gone. 9) Lewis Spargo Keilty T Smith Jkh Maynard Garlett Walker Jwags 

medicals  avberg Jsmith kkolodahjjjjjjji 

 

59 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Langdon for 2nd round 2019 and swap of 1st rounders in 2020 with Freo. Outside run on the wing  GET HIM IN  

Schoenmakers 25yo who can be traded in for a 4th round pick 59-62 pick - 3rd tall or backup for Weid  - Good Eye for the goals  

#2-3 Ash -18yo  instantly walks into wing opposite Langdon  ; big call needed if Rowell was available 

#39 Bergman - 18yo classy youngster from the Dragons    Suits our need to get skilled footballers in  

# 75 - Brodie Newman 18yo  super talent  doesn’t get all the recognition  like an Easton Wood type   Competitive skilled wins the footy 192cm   Allows Salem into a roll in mid if needed

# 77- will Fordham 23yo  (Frankston VFL) classy skilled midfielder who runs and accumulates OR Matthew Allen - eagles listed but  stars everyweek in wafl (wasted)

upgrade to the list. Dunkley. Lockhart.  CWagner

Gone. 9) Lewis Spargo Keilty T Smith Jkh Maynard Garlett Walker Jwags 

medicals  avberg Jsmith kkolodahjjjjjjji 

 

Would you passover Rowell or Anderson if available I wouldn't, I think Kent will end up being the best mid but a big risk because the other 2 are going to be good players.

If they accept it I'd consider pick #2 or 3 for Ben King and your Langdon trade. Be nice to somehow get into the 2nd round and hope Elijah Taylor slides, he's got so much potential this kid better than Liam Henry IMO

15 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Langdon for 2nd round 2019 and swap of 1st rounders in 2020 with Freo. Outside run on the wing  GET HIM IN  

Schoenmakers 25yo who can be traded in for a 4th round pick 59-62 pick - 3rd tall or backup for Weid  - Good Eye for the goals  

#2-3 Ash -18yo  instantly walks into wing opposite Langdon  ; big call needed if Rowell was available 

#39 Bergman - 18yo classy youngster from the Dragons    Suits our need to get skilled footballers in  

# 75 - Brodie Newman 18yo  super talent  doesn’t get all the recognition  like an Easton Wood type   Competitive skilled wins the footy 192cm   Allows Salem into a roll in mid if needed

# 77- will Fordham 23yo  (Frankston VFL) classy skilled midfielder who runs and accumulates OR Matthew Allen - eagles listed but  stars everyweek in wafl (wasted)

upgrade to the list. Dunkley. Lockhart.  CWagner

Gone. 9) Lewis Spargo Keilty T Smith Jkh Maynard Garlett Walker Jwags 

medicals  avberg Jsmith kkolodahjjjjjjji 

 

Langdon for a 2nd will do, I doubt Freo will risk their 1st in a swap with us for next year, but would be a great move if we could pull that off as well.

Schoenmakers will be 29 next season, he's also free agent so no draft pick needed. I wouldn't go anywhere near him though, he might play a few games if we have the same injury run but otherwise would be taking a young guys spot.

Think we'll also be targeting a small forward, if not someone like Serong at the top end of the draft then maybe from a state league to make an instant impact, Lowson  maybe? I think we'll keep Spargo who's still in contract and hope it's just been the 2nd year blues. I agree with your other delistings.

Jack Martin not getting a game two weeks in a row despite clearly a best 22 player and coming off a 30 odd disposal, 2 goal game in the seconds. Has to be gone at seasons end. Haven't heard any speculation linking him to us though which is disappointing.

Ben King looks pretty good. If we did land pick 2 and GC didnt get a PP, would we give up our pick 2 for King or keep it. I would probably keep it but would have no problems if we given it up. On exposed form King looks at least worthy of it. GC have picked astutely in that last draft. They really need to keep King.

Do we have any Free agents we can offline to score pick 3