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28 minutes ago, dl4e said:

I don't want to see another McDonald incident with Jones. He is a club champion but unfortunatly the game seems to have gone past him. Put him in the forward pocket ( still has goal sense ). He is too slow for the backline. Hopefully retires at seasons end.

Jones is actually playing significantly worse than Junior McDonald was when he was forced into premature (and as it turned out, temporary) retirement.  For the first time in his career on Friday night I noticed him deviate from a contest and self preservation was obvious.  The Jones of previous seasons always ran a straight line and took the punishment when it was coming his way.  I have always thought of him as a good honest player - no star, perhaps a B grader in an F Grade team for much of his career.  He has zero accountability and is a kick chaser.  He is not and never has been an elite level midfielder and Tyson was of more value to us last year than Jones.  At present though, he is still in our best 22.  That may change as players return from injury, but for now he stays and as a midfielder - which in the modern game means anywhere from half back to half forward.  

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Posted (edited)

Fwd flank?  Jones doesn't chase, tackle or do the 1%.  We have enough problems with lack of forward pressure to keep the ball i50 and his lack of defensiveness would make it worse.

In the middle he doesn't run both ways or apply mid-field pressure.

Its a case of where does he do least damage to see out the year...tough choice for coaches.   

I thought it significant that yesterday Ben Guthrie wrote that Jones' position this week could be under review.  He wouldn't make up stuff like that about a much loved player and co-captain.  Maybe Goodwin will get ruthless sooner rather than later and tbh Goodwin has a duty to put the team and the club first.

Nonetheless, can't see Jones' being dropped but expect his defensive game to lift.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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Perhaps this was a topic discussed at the honesty session? You would hope so plus a microscope applied to several others 

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25 minutes ago, demoniac said:

You can't hide Jones or Lewis at half back. Both are slow and not natural aerialists. Look at the teams in the 8 and their ballistic running off half back. Can you see Jones or Lewis running the lines? Can you see either matching up on a marking 3rd forward?  If the answer is no there is no role for them down back.  

I rate Jones more valuable onfield now compared to Lewis even 2 years ago.

That said, reputation has counted for more regarding these 2 in relation to selection (Lewis) and position (Jones).

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Posted (edited)

His form is not great and you could put it down to his pre season hamstrings problems the first of two coming pre Christmas.

Hardly a pre season for Nathan however  the 3 games that he has played, is averaging 20 possessions a game so he is building fitness and at least he is getting to the ball. 

Nathan is a proud person and  has plenty to offer There are more issues than his form warrants  and will turn it around as he gets close to peak fitness.  I think he could be suited playing on the wing and on  occasion as a  half forward.

There are more issues with team structure than Nathan's form. 

Edited by nosoupforme
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1 hour ago, old dee said:

He would make Petracca look even slower.

And fatter.

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21 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Fwd flank?  Jones doesn't chase, tackle or do the 1%.  We have enough problems with lack of forward pressure to keep the ball i50 and his lack of defensiveness would make it worse.

In the middle he doesn't run both ways or apply mid-field pressure.

Its a case of where does he do least damage to see out the year...tough choice for coaches.   

I thought it significant that yesterday Ben Guthrie wrote that Jones' position this week could be under review.  He wouldn't make up stuff like that about a much loved player and co-captain.  Maybe Goodwin will get ruthless sooner rather than later and tbh Goodwin has a duty to put the team and the club first.

Nonetheless, can't see Jones' being dropped but expect his defensive game to lift.

Putting the team first might include giving a legend of the club the right finish.

Other players won’t want to see Jones chewed up and spat out.

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Agree with giving him a hard tag job, but not on a fast player.

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, demoniac said:

You can't hide Jones or Lewis at half back. Both are slow and not natural aerialists. Look at the teams in the 8 and their ballistic running off half back. Can you see Jones or Lewis running the lines? Can you see either matching up on a marking 3rd forward?  If the answer is no there is no role for them down back.  

While this is probably true Demon who do you bring in to replace them that will match or improve on either's performance (this year) ?

Our stocks at VFL level (+ injury list) are extremely low.  We should be blooding replacements this season (and a little in the 2nd half of the last) but where are they? 

Edited by Rusty Nails
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10 minutes ago, Soidee said:

Agree with giving him a hard tag job, but not on a fast player.

So is that a slow tag vs a soft tag Soi?

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15 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Putting the team first might include giving a legend of the club the right finish.

Other players won’t want to see Jones chewed up and spat out.

This is spot on Wrecker.  We can't afford another Junior Mac episode.  I'm not writing Jones off for the year either but it's not looking great.  Prefer to revisit this about Rnd 8 - 10 and see where everyone is placed with a fair chunk of matches behind us.

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3 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

So is that a slow tag vs a soft tag Soi?

At least he’s not fat.

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12 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

This is spot on Wrecker.  We can't afford another Junior Mac episode.  I'm not writing Jones off for the year either but it's not looking great.  Prefer to revisit this about Rnd 8 - 10 and see where everyone is placed with a fair chunk of matches behind us.

Trouble is Rusty, the season is over by then. 

Big Calls need to be made this week. If the MFC is to grow, we must make finals

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I reckon there were many times last week that Jones' opposition winger started way off him, but closer toward our goals.  At a centre bounce, Jones was just standing on his own, no-one around him.  He didn't come charging in to provide an extra number around the contest, didn't drift forward to man up, or didn't float back.  He looked like he was lost.

Problem with it was that because his opponent was playing off him, it meant the Bombers effectively had an extra defender (I acknowledge the 6-6-6 rule).  When we won the clearance and bombed it in, it gave them an extra number to run the ball out of defence.

I'd go so far to say that they targeted this play through Jones, mainly because they know his defending ability is quite poor, and that even if he was used as an outlet from the stoppage, his preferred F50 entry is a long bomb, where they would back themselves winning it given Jones' opponent was already well on his way to our 50.

There were a number of times where I would ask "WTF"? It was embarrassing to watch this as I realised we had absolutely no plan to sort this out and was made even more embarrassing because it was our co-captain that had no idea/initiative to stop it.

Nb. As I wasn't at the game, I couldn't see if they did that on the other wing too.

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31 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Trouble is Rusty, the season is over by then. 

Big Calls need to be made this week. If the MFC is to grow, we must make finals

We do have Preuss, Stretch, Sparrow, Maynard, Spargo, Garlett, Petty & Keilty available, Of that group I would be looking at Preuss, Stretch, Spargo & Garlett or Petty / Keilty if we need another tall. It is not like we have no options - Billy in particular deserves a run in the ones and not just one week................Go Dee's

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3 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

We do have Preuss, Stretch, Sparrow, Maynard, Spargo, Garlett, Petty & Keilty available, Of that group I would be looking at Preuss, Stretch, Spargo & Garlett or Petty / Keilty if we need another tall. It is not like we have no options - Billy in particular deserves a run in the ones and not just one week................Go Dee's

I agree and now is the time

Jones won’t improve, he has hit the wall. It happens to us all

He can still be a part of the club, but not on the grass anymore 

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No idea why he is still co-captain.  this year was the obvious year for him to step down and let Viney take over imo.

now it becomes more awkward and obvious that he is playing poorly and looks very slow. I still think he is in the 22 most weeks but he is no longer an on-field leader.

play him in the guts more or half back or not at all

(I love Jonesy and always will)

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Not this first time I've said this, but until someone at Casey steps up and demands Jones' position he will stay in the team. Same for Lewis (when fit).

Jones is playing poorly and has been doing so since first moved out of the midfield midway through last year. But when the possible replacements include Maynard and Stretch, who are even less capable in the role Jones is currently occupying, there is no chance of him being replaced.

And the reason he is still (co) captain is because Viney is no sure thing to play each week. Until Viney gets through a full season I expect the captaincy to remain shared.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, The Chazz said:

I reckon there were many times last week that Jones' opposition winger started way off him, but closer toward our goals.  At a centre bounce, Jones was just standing on his own, no-one around him.  He didn't come charging in to provide an extra number around the contest, didn't drift forward to man up, or didn't float back.  He looked like he was lost.

Have a friend who is a coach at Essendon. Can confirm this is one of the tactics they used. Another was his opponent streaming forward of the contest knowing Jones wouldn't/couldn't go with him. If we won the ball and Jones got it, they weren't as concerned about him being damaging compared to what they'd be able to get out of exploiting the match up. They rotated Heppell, Parish and Smith through the wing playing off Jones to great effect. It's a match up that opposition clubs are exploiting, and they would've done the same last year against Tyson.

We need to stop playing slow inside mids on the wing and play someone with running stamina and/or pace. Players like Fritsch, Stretch, Hunt, Hibberd are the types we should be playing there now. The wing needs to stop being a grave yard for slow inside mids or retiring players being protected.

Not sure what to do with Jones unless we play him inside mid again and start pushing Brayshaw and Oliver to the outside for stints?

Edited by Lord Travis
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1 hour ago, DubDee said:

No idea why he is still co-captain.  this year was the obvious year for him to step down and let Viney take over imo.

now it becomes more awkward and obvious that he is playing poorly and looks very slow. I still think he is in the 22 most weeks but he is no longer an on-field leader.

play him in the guts more or half back or not at all

(I love Jonesy and always will)

He could always step down as co-captain. Just like how Hannebery stepped down from the leadership team to work on his recovery. Jones could do the same to just focus on his game. 

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It's been a tough transition for him.  After spending over a decade in the guts, he's had to move out of his natural role and take up other positions that don't come naturally to him.  I mean, prior to them middle of last season, how often would have spent time on a wing?  He was always our number one player through the middle of the ground.  Being pushed out of that role, while necessary, wouldn't have come easy for him.

But as others have said, the transition isn't working and we need to come up with a solution.  He is currently a co-captain, so dropping him would be a last resort.  Could he slot in across half back, thus releasing Hibberd to a wing?  Could he actually provide something across half forward for us?  His defensive running and willingness to do the 1%ers has certainly dropped in recent times, but a specific role within the side might help to lift that.

Either way, the challenge for us is getting him involved more, while also hiding the deficiencies that are now more present in his game.  Turning his form and output around is paramount to our fortunes this season.

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2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Trouble is Rusty, the season is over by then. 

Big Calls need to be made this week. If the MFC is to grow, we must make finals

Maynard's about the only direct replacement mid available though SW.  He might be worth rolling through there at some stage but can't see it unless one of the main 4 that run through there go down with an injury.

I still think there's a part to play for Jones but as you say, old father time is against him.

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5 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

It's been a tough transition for him.  After spending over a decade in the guts, he's had to move out of his natural role and take up other positions that don't come naturally to him.  I mean, prior to them middle of last season, how often would have spent time on a wing?  He was always our number one player through the middle of the ground.  Being pushed out of that role, while necessary, wouldn't have come easy for him.

But as others have said, the transition isn't working and we need to come up with a solution.  He is currently a co-captain, so dropping him would be a last resort.  Could he slot in across half back, thus releasing Hibberd to a wing?  Could he actually provide something across half forward for us?  His defensive running and willingness to do the 1%ers has certainly dropped in recent times, but a specific role within the side might help to lift that.

Either way, the challenge for us is getting him involved more, while also hiding the deficiencies that are now more present in his game.  Turning his form and output around is paramount to our fortunes this season.

He started off his career as mostly a HFFer from what,i recall Wise but obviously had youth on his side back then.  Forward pocket?

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1 minute ago, Rusty Nails said:

He started off his career as mostly a HFFer from what,i recall Wise but obviously had youth on his side back then.  Forward pocket?

While I do agree with others that his defensive work these days, and his two way running, isn't really up to scratch, I think the forward line might be the best place for him.  He is still smart enough to get to the right spots and make a contest, and you feel as though he has the ability to get a few goals a game for us.  Will it work, or will he even be given a run through there?  Who knows, but I wouldn't be against it.  I think he can provide more for us there than on a wing.

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His done, is a liability and sets a bad example with his no defensive game style. Drop him and bring in Stretch to play wing instead.

Unfortunstely we shouldn’t need to scrape the barrel looking for positions to keep any player in the seniors.

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