44 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Like I give a stuff if you change your mind.

Your views are disrespectful, full stop.  Enjoy them.

I find it disrespectful that the Football Department was clearly not ready to start the new 2019 Season and the Gameplan of Chaos Football is now outdated with the new rules. 

Goodwin better make some serious changes real quick. Essendrug are a garbage side who hadn’t scored goals in the First Quarter this year. We gave them 6. 

He is lucky he signed when he did, because he is certainly ill prepared for 2019 at this point

Edited April 6, 20196 yr by Sir Why You Little

14 hours ago, Pirlo said:

Why did we need to give him a four year deal? What was the rush?

How many games do you have to lose to for a coach to be critsised?  So the next coach that  has a poor start is in the same boat and so on.  Goodwin got us to a Pelim in 2 years he is the best we have had for a long time apart from Roos and we have to stick with him not  stomp on him.  There are reasons of coarse.  And it is not Goodwin. Work it out!

Lay off Goodwin it is a poor showing of faith as he is disappointed l am sure and he will rectify the problem whatever it takes for the FD to get back on track. Give him some space.

I think the key atm is that we're playing bad football for a good side, rather than being a bad side playing bad football. It is quite obvious to me, that. We win the ball a lot and undoubtedly have the talent, but this is a funk. If we get to rounds 11-12 and we've won less than 4 games, the season can't be salvaged and at that point you start putting players on ice and blooding newbies. Then you reasses and reboot for 2020.

I think a slow start and potential bottom 10 was completely viable and rational prediction for this team for this team. They look absolutely drained and still very much in pre season mode.

I would reasses Goodwin's position mid-2020. Yes it is tough as supporters to be patient but you need to treat each year and regime in isolation. It is not ideal but top 4 and flag predictions were just hyperbole from the start. It creates a story if they don't perform. "What a disappointment!"

Gary Pert has been around for 2 seconds. Anyone suggesting he is in a position to be vocal or held accountable is just being unreasonable. I'd give the current regime until mid 2020. That'll have Goodwin deep into year 4. From there if it's proven he's not right, then you look to Pert. 

Atm as a fanbase we need to think far more logically about this all. IMO this is my objective interpretation of our list, I think it's far more likely we'll bounce back than won't. 

57 minutes ago, america de cali said:

I change my mind when he makes the tough calls wiseguy. Like making some tough calls with your buddy ANB and Jones to name a couple and challenging the playing group. Now that’s  what I call doing the hard work.

Making a call on players is not a reflection of people working hard or not. He may not be the best coach but I have no doubt he works hard and is working even harder now to try and turn things around. 

Pert's job is the same as Jackson. He provides a stable environment for all areas of the club to operate within.

His only role in the football department is to ensure that it is functioning as  a unit. There are no questions in that regard. We may disagree with the gameplan devised by the football department but that is their area. Goodwin has been assessed and found worthy of an extension.

Let's move on and leave Pert to do his job.

Me... I'm more interested in how the football department prepare for 2020.

13 minutes ago, praha said:

I think the key atm is that we're playing bad football for a good side, rather than being a bad side playing bad football. It is quite obvious to me, that. We win the ball a lot and undoubtedly have the talent, but this is a funk. If we get to rounds 11-12 and we've won less than 4 games, the season can't be salvaged and at that point you start putting players on ice and blooding newbies. Then you reasses and reboot for 2020.

I think a slow start and potential bottom 10 was completely viable and rational prediction for this team for this team. They look absolutely drained and still very much in pre season mode.

I would reasses Goodwin's position mid-2020. Yes it is tough as supporters to be patient but you need to treat each year and regime in isolation. It is not ideal but top 4 and flag predictions were just hyperbole from the start. It creates a story if they don't perform. "What a disappointment!"

Gary Pert has been around for 2 seconds. Anyone suggesting he is in a position to be vocal or held accountable is just being unreasonable. I'd give the current regime until mid 2020. That'll have Goodwin deep into year 4. From there if it's proven he's not right, then you look to Pert. 

Atm as a fanbase we need to think far more logically about this all. IMO this is my objective interpretation of our list, I think it's far more likely we'll bounce back than won't. 

The side that played on Friday night had 6 players who are VFL level talents playing and a couple who are now over the hill.

The list is not as good as you think. Yes we have some injuries but the back up players are not good enough.

There were reasons off the field for clearing Hogan but we have no one to fill his forward spot and where are going to get his 50 goals from I have no idea. 

IMO we are and eighth or ninth placed side when we have a full list and most play well.

we are in no danger of playing in a GF this decade.

7 minutes ago, Jaded said:

Making a call on players is not a reflection of people working hard or not. He may not be the best coach but I have no doubt he works hard and is working even harder now to try and turn things around. 

I worked hard at science and did well Jaded but I was in no danger of becoming a rocket scientist. At best he is a hard working average coach.

He has been caught out dramatically by the change to 666. Saw no need to change the way we play and now we can see the result.

9 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Pert's job is the same as Jackson. He provides a stable environment for all areas of the club to operate within.

His only role in the football department is to ensure that it is functioning as  a unit. There are no questions in that regard. We may disagree with the gameplan devised by the football department but that is their area. Goodwin has been assessed and found worthy of an extension.

Let's move on and leave Pert to do his job.

Me... I'm more interested in how the football department prepare for 2020.

Me to DJ as this year is already spent, also interested in who we recruit for the forward line. We desperately need to replace Hogan.

33 minutes ago, old dee said:

The side that played on Friday night had 6 players who are VFL level talents playing and a couple who are now over the hill.

The list is not as good as you think. Yes we have some injuries but the back up players are not good enough.

There were reasons off the field for clearing Hogan but we have no one to fill his forward spot and where are going to get his 50 goals from I have no idea. 

IMO we are and eighth or ninth placed side when we have a full list and most play well.

we are in no danger of playing in a GF this decade.

Things can change very quickly. Richmond showed that you don't need more than 4 or 5 guns and the rest, simple role players. We have built a core group of guns (Gawn, Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney, Lever, May and Harmes, with an emerging KPF in Weideman) and over one simple off season, Geelong have shown that by injecting pace into areas like the forwardline, you can turn things around pretty quickly.

I partly agree with your comments about VFL level talents (Oscar, Frost, Josh Wagner and possibly Fritsch) and those over the hill (Jones and probably Lewis), but our core is still just as strong as any other side in the comp on their day. It's just getting to their day that's the problem and with fitness not on our side, and our pathetic defence, we need to go back to the drawing board, RE: game style.

1 minute ago, A F said:

Things can change very quickly. Richmond showed that you don't need more than 4 or 5 guns and the rest, simple role players. We have built a core group of guns (Gawn, Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney, Lever, May and Harmes, with an emerging KPF in Weideman) and over one simple off season, Geelong have shown that by injecting pace into areas like the forwardline, you can turn things around pretty quickly.

I partly agree with your comments about VFL level talents (Oscar, Frost, Josh Wagner and possibly Fritsch) and those over the hill (Jones and probably Lewis), but our core is still just as strong as any other side in the comp on their day. It's just getting to their day that's the problem and with fitness not on our side, and our pathetic defence, we need to go back to the drawing board, RE: game style.

The defence is IMO not as bad as the forward line, the forwards give the backs nothing to defend.

The Weid is not emerging  he has emerged and what you have seen this year is what you are going to get. The odd good game followed by 4 where he struggles to have an impact. 

39 minutes ago, old dee said:

The defence is IMO not as bad as the forward line, the forwards give the backs nothing to defend.

The Weid is not emerging  he has emerged and what you have seen this year is what you are going to get. The odd good game followed by 4 where he struggles to have an impact. 

I disagree. He's a KPF who's played less than 25 games. He's a beautiful set shot kick and has a nice pair of hands. 

I agree with the forwardline being a major weakness, but the midfield is also a weakness to our defence. It's not just the forwards role to lock the ball inside our attacking 50. 

So as I see it..a hypothetical of course ...

Things don't pan out so well..2019 finishes with us winning 6-7 games.

Some disquiet over the next summer ..etc etc.

2020 improves a smidge.( or not )

Where does the club go then ? 

3 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

So as I see it..a hypothetical of course ...

Things don't pan out so well..2019 finishes with us winning 6-7 games.

Some disquiet over the next summer ..etc etc.

2020 improves a smidge.( or not )

Where does the club go then ? 

Where it has even for the last 50 years bb.

In the wilderness, best we can hope for is to win enough games to threaten eighth and win the occasional big game.

5 minutes ago, A F said:

I disagree. He's a KPF who's played less than 25 games. He's a beautiful set shot kick and has a nice pair of hands. 

I agree with the forwardline being a major weakness, but the midfield is also a weakness to our defence. It's not just the forwards role to lock the ball inside our attacking 50. 

But you have to get the ball first.

He will be played a lot this year no matter what his form. They are trying to see if he is worth a spot beyond 2019.

44 minutes ago, old dee said:

The side that played on Friday night had 6 players who are VFL level talents playing and a couple who are now over the hill.

The list is not as good as you think. Yes we have some injuries but the back up players are not good enough.

There were reasons off the field for clearing Hogan but we have no one to fill his forward spot and where are going to get his 50 goals from I have no idea. 

IMO we are and eighth or ninth placed side when we have a full list and most play well.

we are in no danger of playing in a GF this decade.

We have a strong list that lacks depth, no doubt. Our major ball winners haven't played 100 games yet. This decade? Seeing as those only this season to go, Id agree.

This thread makes me angry.

Angry that our supporters wish we hadn't given support to a coach who took us to our first finals appearance in 12 years.

That our supporters would prefer we go into a season in which we should be a contender with a giant question mark over our coach's head.

8 hours ago, beelzebub said:

The alternative is blindingly obvious. You wait a little...proceed with a little caution. 

I shall repeat what I said earlier. You needn't have waited til season's end but maybe let the year start and see where it's going ( currently downhill out the backdoor at an alarming rate ). . There's nothing new or overly clever about such strategy. Just prudent.

So then what happens now, when we're 0-3 and he's uncontracted?

We don't sign him at all and keep waiting?

Is the logical endpoint that if we have a bad year you would sack him?

If not, then we're better off having signed him, indicating to him, the players and the football world that he has the club's support, and keeping the focus where it should be: on our on-field performances.

5 hours ago, Pirlo said:

It is a genuine indictment on this club that fans can watch our players start the season so complacently and preach patience because "the players and coach are hurting too". That's the kind of rubbish we stood by for about a decade before we got serious under Jackson and Roos. I will be patient, happily, because most teams that make a deep finals run for the first time take a step back the next year. Teams figure them out and start paying more attention. But this start to the year isn't normal. This is far more than one step back. Three quotes stood out to me yesterday:

A.Brayshaw: "Unfortunately some of our players aren't buying in and coming back to help defend"

Lewis: "I think May would look back at the way he arrived at the club and wouldn't be happy with it"

Goodwin: "We're going to try and turn this around"

Would this kind of defeatist language have happened under Roos or Jackson? How could our recruiting team not realise that Steven May has dreadful standards before they signed him up on a high priced deal and, if there were concerns in his medical, why would they not have given him an off-season exercise plan? Brayshaw literally accused his teammates of downhill skiing after the game - does that symbolise a united playing group?

For all the fugazi about the boys loving Goody so much, why has the top-down consistency that Jackson established eroded so quickly? Why have our players forgotten how to play football? Why are they putting in so little effort that two senior players blasted them for it on the same day? Goodwin insisted after the Cats game that we are not underdone, so what's the excuse? Where the [censored] are our captains in all of this? 

I'm just not confident in the culture of this club at the moment, and I never once had that concern under PJ and Roos.

Are you suggesting that with PJ's departure people at the club have felt empowered/able to "revert" back to some sort of pre-PJ culture?

You've put an inordinate amount of emphasis on Goodwin's use of the word "try". That's wholly regular language and IMO says absolutely nothing.

Brayshaw's comment came after we would have had our initial review of the game with the coaches. I suspect the coaches put the rocket up the entire side for our lack of defensive pressure in the second half. So Brayshaw (a 23-year old who's played 61 games) fronts up for an interview with that on his mind and comments that the entire side isn't doing what the coaches have been trying to re-inforce at least this week, if not previously. It's a comment on what's clearly going wrong with the side but I don't for a second believe it says anything about the club not being "united".

So we're left with Lewis' comment about May, which is something we've all known since the first day of pre-season. But where is the suggestion that a pre-signing medical would have revealed some sort of hidden problem? 

13 hours ago, Deesprate said:

If I read one more quote for Melbourne supporters to be patient. This is not just about poor form the start to the season is an unmitigated disaster. These issues are bigger than the coach and as usual they are a reflection on the whole club. How the hell have we ended up with a goal to goal line which is close to the worst in the league. How have we burnt top draft pick to secure two injury prone defenders. Who is responsible for recruiting a defensive coach who game plan would not work in under 9. How can we come into a season so woefully under prepared. How is it we have one of the best mid fields in the league including the best ruckman yet are on the bottom of the ladder. What strategies are in place to assist Goodwin who is wearing all responsibilty. How can we have no outside leg speed when this deficiency has been obvious for years. Why do we have a president and chair who are completely invisible when the titanic is sinking. This is so much more than poor form it is completely indicative of what been happening since 1965. Successful club have a winning culture it is clear this place is utterly devoid of these principles. Whilst some club under perform it is not to the extent of this disaster. Sorry this has been served up for to long. Supporters were patient through the re build and have a right to expect better than what is being served up at present. The president and CEO need to get off their collective backsides and explain to members how we have arrived at this horror show. I was patient and optimistic with the Roos re build but believe somewhere somehow it gone off the rails. This is far more than just momentary form and I feel that five years of patience has been completely burnt.

Be patient Deesprate

19 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

..........     Also love how all the old men in the thread who have 'been suffering since 1965' are all banding together to pot the club.  Never change, fellas.

Most of your contributions add great value to this forum Wiseblood, but not this one.

1 hour ago, Deeoldfart said:

Most of your contributions add great value to this forum Wiseblood, but not this one.

Maybe not, but it's still true. 

43 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Maybe not, but it's still true. 

That there might be commonality is hardly surprising. We been around , we fossils, since our last bit of silverware. It's been a long time. Far too long really given some opportunities and talent over this journey.

So excuse us if we don't suffer fools or foolishness. We're a little over it.

Those that suggest patience....how many lifetimes are you prescribing ?

In my line of endeavours I always seek excellence. Failure isn't really an option as I'd be sued out of existence. So I take efforts to get things right. I adapt when circumstance dictates. I become that tree.

Some of us have indeed been around that long we recognise poor institution. We can detect BS at great distance...and we can see when something or someone is set-up to inevitably fail through too dogmatic and insular application.

I see nothing about us currently to get overly enthused.  I did. But it evaporated..

If that's a common thread...so be it.

What's your answer Perty?

I'm not too concerned with Pert as CEO at the moment.

Goodwin's extension was ratified by the board more than him. I'd be asking the question to Bartlett and his board first.

The Casey re-development is long overdue, which has happened under his watch. And i wait to see what he has up his sleeve for our base in Melbourne.

The blame lies solely with the FD.

On 4/6/2019 at 6:05 AM, Win4theAges said:

Everything has turned to [censored] since this pretender has jumped on board, like he had brought along a nice little curse to [censored] things up nicely.

The must be all having a nice old chuckle down at the lexus center.

A nice old chuckle they are having Eddie and Co. Can sniff out a pretender from a mile away

Pert gets this Summer to sort out this mess. I will judge him next year

I'm starting to think Pert's another Trojan Horse given to us by The Filth like Dawes and the Prince.