Farewell Jesse Hogan

[Damo 3,343]

Disclaimer: I thought Brayshaw was Gone earlier this year.

Now I think that we need to look at future picks. We dont have a 1st rounder this year and although we have done well with later picks last year, Id like to shore up some talent.

I think Hogan is worth about what Jake Lever is. If that is so, Id like it to be a 1st round this year and another one next year. I think Tyson, Bugg are later picks but Oscar should be worth a bit. All speculation of course. Love all the players but make hay while the sun shines.

 

[Deestar9 1,587]

I found it breathtaking & unbelievably arrogant ...not to mention disrespectful to even contemplate trading Hogan.  We have had an amazing year but haven’t won a final & are still a long way off being a “complete” team.  There are teams in the 8 & outside of the 8 who for whatever reasons haven’t been unable to field close to their best 22 & next year a whole lot of new challengers will appear.  To contemplate trading a 23yr old “ unbelievable” talent who has had to deal with situations that a lot of us will hopefully never have to ...is “mind boggling”.  Let’s just settle down ....follow our team & embrace who is lucky enough to make the final 22.  Don’t forget there are a lot o& warriors who have got us here & leave off arrogantly suggesting we trade off stars because we have actuall6 made finals.  

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

Talk of trading Hogan is beyond insanity.  Thank God these people are not running our football department.

[Moonshadow 17,675]

55 minutes ago, Grand New Flag said:

Talk of trading Hogan is beyond insanity.  Thank God these people are not running our football department.

I'd be truly amazed if Taylor, TViney and Mahoney weren't doing due diligence and assessing the value of most players on our list and considering what deals might get done in trade week, likely or unlikely. IMO only Gawn and Oliver are untouchable, possibly Jack Viney too. 

Thankfully, the FD isn't run by the emotional outragists like yourself who shout down reasonable discussion.

Stick with the riddles mate, the comedy festival awaits. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Moonshadow

[sisso 2,577]

Unless he requests a trade, I can't see it happening...Goodwin hasn't built the foundations of the club on strong relationships only to offload one of our most promising young stars when he's just about to peak

[Vipercrunch 2,820]

Dr Turf and KB brought Hogan up again today. Says the rumours just won’t go away. Some rumours say he is gone. 

Apart from early picks, what else can Freo offer?

[Tricky 341]

11 minutes ago, S_T said:

Dr Turf and KB brought Hogan up again today. Says the rumours just won’t go away. Some rumours say he is gone. 

Apart from early picks, what else can Freo offer?

Fyfe? (as long as the top knot goes as a non-negotiable in the contract)

[drysdale demon 4,830]

21 minutes ago, S_T said:

Dr Turf and KB brought Hogan up again today. Says the rumours just won’t go away. Some rumours say he is gone. 

Apart from early picks, what else can Freo offer?

I wouldn't take any notice of what those 2 clowns say.

[Vipercrunch 2,820]

9 minutes ago, Tricky said:

Fyfe? (as long as the top knot goes as a non-negotiable in the contract)

I’d be happy with Fyfe minus top knot but I do t think that will happen. 

Young Brayshaw plus their first pick would be close. Maybe Kent to them also (hopefully his luck changes there, poor bugger).

[beelzebub 23,313]

The way some puff their chests with pompous indignation; surprised they don't explode.

It would be insanity ( of a fashion ) and certainly arrogant stupidity to suggest any list is at its zenith and not requiring betterment.

I'm certainly glad none of these patronising know-all types have anything to do with my businesses... they'd be broke in a year.

The list will change come EOS. Dynamics unknown to we mere mortals often come into play then. Indeed some are only born then out of opportunity.

Go Dees

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

6 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Weid progressing nicely.

That's probably the first game I've seen the Weid look "on" for pretty much the entire match (live).

He looked very much at home as an AFL footballer.

The "Weid Weid" chant that went around the ground after he took a bit of a speckie over the back at one point must have been a huge confidence booster and was a fantastic moment yesterday.

 

[sisso 2,577]

16 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

The way some puff their chests with pompous indignation; surprised they don't explode.

It would be insanity ( of a fashion ) and certainly arrogant stupidity to suggest any list is at its zenith and not requiring betterment.

I'm certainly glad none of these patronising know-all types have anything to do with my businesses... they'd be broke in a year.

The list will change come EOS. Dynamics unknown to we mere mortals often come into play then. Indeed some are only born then out of opportunity.

Go Dees

But if he doesn't want to go then what? He may see himself as a true Demon. 

This isn't a Jack Watts situation where an underperformer has been given many years to rectify his issues and couldn't or wouldn't meet the required standard. We can't just treat our players as trading pieces to be shuffled around without taking into account the impact on team morale (and as you said dynamics). How can the club demand loyalty and keep a strong list together in an environment where they'd need to accept less money if we turned around and did that?

Trading Jesse who is a loved and respected figure at the club would have much bigger ramifications than just player in/player out.

Football isn't the same as a straight business where the prime objective is to make as much money as possible - its a lot more emotional than that!

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,737]

56 minutes ago, S_T said:

Dr Turf and KB brought Hogan up again today. Says the rumours just won’t go away. Some rumours say he is gone. 

Apart from early picks, what else can Freo offer?

Given how much of a shambles Freo's foward line, I'd expect Freo to pay up big. Real big.

Pick 5 and their second rounder would be a great start.

[beelzebub 23,313]

@sisso et Al

 I don't see this being a case of anything really coming out of the blue. I would be astounded if it were to transpire that suitors haven't been in constant contact with his management. 

I'm not suggesting just haphazardly shopping him. Ever since he announced himself on the footy stage there's been talk of this that etc. If he figures as concrete in MFC plans... All well and good. That said we have had to on more than one occasion adjust to life without Jesse ... recent times as example. I'm sure the club has contingency should he be seduced home.

Hogan falls well and truly under the 'what if' scenario.

The reality of life is that sands shift. I would want we aren't caught napping or smugly content and that we can act prudently and quickly should that door open.

I'm all for the club...and club first. Again...if the best result for the club is sans- Hogan then that's fine. Others seem to think he's a must keep. I don't.

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

5 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

I'd be truly amazed if Taylor, TViney and Mahoney weren't doing due diligence and assessing the value of most players on our list and considering what deals might get done in trade week, likely or unlikely. IMO only Gawn and Oliver are untouchable, possibly Jack Viney too. 

Thankfully, the FD isn't run by the emotional outragists like yourself who shout down reasonable discussion.

Stick with the riddles mate, the comedy festival awaits. 

40 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

The way some puff their chests with pompous indignation; surprised they don't explode.

It would be insanity ( of a fashion ) and certainly arrogant stupidity to suggest any list is at its zenith and not requiring betterment.

I'm certainly glad none of these patronising know-all types have anything to do with my businesses... they'd be broke in a year.

The list will change come EOS. Dynamics unknown to we mere mortals often come into play then. Indeed some are only born then out of opportunity.

Go Dees

The problem with most of the argument is there's nothing that's been suggested on here at this stage that says we'd be getting his true current value. We don't need an early pick/young kid that badly anymore - that's the MFC of 3 years ago.

We should be seeing ourselves as well and truly in the hunt for significant finals action for the next 4/5 years+, so while Hogan might be at his best value right now and it might get us pick 5 and Brayshaw/Cerra (or whatever is the right pick/player), I don't see that as an improvement to us now, and I don't think many on here do.

Just because a player is at their highest perceived trade value doesn't mean they are not more valuable than keeping them. I'm yet to see anything in this thread that says if we trade Hogan we get XYZ, I've thought it seems fair and makes us better short/long term. So unless someone comes up with that situation it's easy to say no don't do it. Of course if he comes at the end of the year and says he wants to go home his value or what we accept then changes, anyone could do that, but I wouldn't be pushing him out the door.

 

[Moonshadow 17,675]

My thoughts too Bub.

We are run professionally these days, the recruiting guys look at all scenarios so that we aren't potentially caught with our pants down.

No harm in us discussing likewise on Land 

[Sir Why You Little 36,955]

I think Jesse could be a great player running off half back. 

I hope we play him there in 2019

I wouldn’t be trading him yet. FF is not his optimum position 

[Willmoy1947 4,081]

5 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

I'd be truly amazed if Taylor, TViney and Mahoney weren't doing due diligence and assessing the value of most players on our list and considering what deals might get done in trade week, likely or unlikely. IMO only Gawn and Oliver are untouchable, possibly Jack Viney too. 

Thankfully, the FD isn't run by the emotional outragists like yourself who shout down reasonable discussion.

Stick with the riddles mate, the comedy festival awaits. 

There could be known unknowns, or even worse, unknown unknowns. Not really riddle-ish though........

[monoccular 17,413]

On 8/23/2018 at 10:01 AM, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Dylan Shiel, get it done.

IF and only IF Jesse wanted to go to WA, then maybe yes.

On 8/23/2018 at 11:09 AM, Mondê said:

He does, what has happened to his contested marking though? Remember in 2016 when he tore that Anzac Day Eve game apart? He was clunking everything.

He was only playing against PRancer that night if I recall.  Gave him an absolute bath.

On 8/23/2018 at 11:43 AM, djr said:

I would only be interested if the Dockers actually approached the club with an offer. I would only be interested if that offer was their first round pick and one of their players eg Langdon or possibly Andrew Brayshaw ( I know he has re-signed, but we might give them back a pick). I would then use that first round pick to try and pick up a quality mid like Gaff or Shiels

Now wouldn't that be an irony, Gaff AND Andrew Brayshaw playing together at the Dees 

1 hour ago, S_T said:

Dr Turf and KB brought Hogan up again today. Says the rumours just won’t go away. Some rumours say he is gone. 

Apart from early picks, what else can Freo offer?

Maybe the original signed edition of "Exciting Footy Tactics" by Ross Lyon?

[layzie 33,741]

Everyone has their price.

 

Except Max and Clarry.

[Moonshadow 17,675]

17 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

The problem with most of the argument is there's nothing that's been suggested on here at this stage that says we'd be getting his true current value. We don't need an early pick/young kid that badly anymore - that's the MFC of 3 years ago.

We should be seeing ourselves as well and truly in the hunt for significant finals action for the next 4/5 years+, so while Hogan might be at his best value right now and it might get us pick 5 and Brayshaw/Cerra (or whatever is the right pick/player), I don't see that as an improvement to us now, and I don't think many on here do.

Just because a player is at their highest perceived trade value doesn't mean they are not more valuable than keeping them. I'm yet to see anything in this thread that says if we trade Hogan we get XYZ, I've thought it seems fair and makes us better short/long term. So unless someone comes up with that situation it's easy to say no don't do it. Of course if he comes at the end of the year and says he wants to go home his value or what we accept then changes, anyone could do that, but I wouldn't be pushing him out the door.

 

We've played some pretty good football without Hogan over the last couple of years, even going back to the win at Kardina Park 3 years ago. We are bigger than any one player, perhaps with exception of Gawn and Oliver.

Weid has shown improvement and expectations are that he will continue to do so. I'd prefer to keep Hogan, maybe consider him off half back as others have said. I'm not in the emotional 'keep at all costs' camp as I think we have bigger holes in the midfield that need addressing. I do not see Hogan as the quality midfielder we need to find.

Cerra and pick 5 may not improve us now, but they'd sure as hell improve us in the next 4-5 years as we play more finals. Pick 5 could be included in a trade package for a mature player, eg Whitfield or Cogniglio.

It's all hypothetical, but I'd bet my house that the club is looking at everything possible

Edited August 27, 2018 by Moonshadow

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

14 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

We've played some pretty good football without Hogan over the last couple of years, even going back to the win at Kardina Park 3 years ago. We are bigger than any one player, perhaps with exception of Gawn and Oliver.

Weid has shown improvement and expectations are that he will continue to do so. I'd prefer to keep Hogan, maybe consider him off half back as others have said. I'm not in the emotional 'keep at all costs' camp as I think we have bigger holes in the midfield that need addressing. I do not see Hogan as the quality midfielder we need to find.

Cerra and pick 5 may not improve us now, but they'd sure as hell improve us in the next 4-5 years as we play more finals. Pick 5 could be included in a trade package for a mature player, eg Whitfield or Cogniglio.

It's all hypothetical, but I'd bet my house that the club is looking at everything possible

I'm not against the club looking at all possibilities, and hope they do, there's just been a lot who've jumped onto trading Hogan because they think he's at his highest value, and that just seems to be the old MFC way of thinking. Draft picks won't do a heap for us for the next few years, we've got a very young list and only really have Lewis, Jones and Jetta who'll come out of the weekends team in the next 3/4 years (due to age, form/injury can happen to anyone). 

[Vipercrunch 2,820]

From a non-emotional perspective, any in contract player is generally at the highest value to their current club. Out of contract, the club loses some control then FA is all control to the player and destination club. 

IF Hogan requests a trade, I don’t think he is of the value that it benefits us to refuse. 

[beelzebub 23,313]

3 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

I'm not against the club looking at all possibilities, and hope they do, there's just been a lot who've jumped onto trading Hogan because they think he's at his highest value, and that just seems to be the old MFC way of thinking. Draft picks won't do a heap for us for the next few years, we've got a very young list and only really have Lewis, Jones and Jetta who'll come out of the weekends team in the next 3/4 years (due to age, form/injury can happen to anyone). 

I think an argument goes along the lines that if you were to entertain trading Hogan then many ( as do I ) think you do it now when the value realised is a very useful currency in other recruiting/trades. Ie it is possibly/probably more beneficial to the CLUB now. It may be more beneficial to Jesse later. Either way should he go he won't be impoverished

[Lord Travis 10,696]

We'd be stupid to actively trade Hogan. Quality key position players are hard to identify and develop properly, and he is pure quality.

However, if he really wanted to be traded to a WA club, then obviously we have to look at it. I'd say Pick 5 and one of Andy Brayshaw or Adam Cerra would be a fair trade. Gives us a great young midfield talent and a pick 5 to draft another talented youngster/trade for a good established player. 

Only trade him if he wants out.