Farewell Jesse Hogan

[Adam The God 30,287]

He's certainly not a player that outwardly lacks confidence, but I reckon at this stage it's superficial. He doesn't know what it takes to grab the game by the scruff of the neck. He has the attributes, but he hasn't felt that moment yet where no one is going to stop him. 

I predict it'll happen next season.

[Pennant St Dee 13,241]

7 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Yes, 5kg heavier (96 kilos) but 5cm shorter.  That in itself tells a story

It tells you nothing have a look at the natural build of both of them.  Totally different Trac was 10kg heavier than De Goey when drafted.

He doesn't need to lose any more weight IMO he isn't going to be an endurance athlete.

He's at best as HFF with occasional short bursts through the middle.

 

 

[binman 43,138]

10 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

It tells you nothing have a look at the natural build of both of them.  Totally different Trac was 10kg heavier than De Goey when drafted.

He doesn't need to lose any more weight IMO he isn't going to be an endurance athlete.

He's at best as HFF with occasional short bursts through the middle.

 

 

Agree. On all 3 points. A better comparison is stringer. Hopefully he has more application.

Edited October 23, 2018 by binman

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,859]

On 10/22/2018 at 7:15 PM, Engorged Onion said:

go on, throw a tasty morsel... ?

Better not EO . . . but there's a recent enough post in this thread made by another poster that's not far off the view held by key people in the FD.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Queanbeyan Demon
Clarity.

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,859]

12 hours ago, hells bells said:

Culture killer?

That would be the 'output' HB. Another poster has made a recent contribution on this thread that's not too far off the mark . . . as I understand it.  

[DV8 2,271]

11 hours ago, John Demonic said:

He's definitely ahead of JDG on the scales  I hope Tracc follows in the footsteps of Gawn and comes back ripe and has a big off season and sheds a few kilo's. Perhaps it's what stands in the way of him becoming as explosive a burst player as Goey

Application on the track, and away from the club ???  I suspect.

[rpfc 28,542]

11 hours ago, Grand New Flag said:

@rpfc  Great effort to try and discredit me, but what I wrote was true. The FD would have prefered JH stayed and JH was happy to play out his contract.  This is a fact.

We did as well as we could getting KK, May and a Pick 23 for JH and the FD shoudl be congratulated for this..................... but that does not mean they are happy losing the best young forward in the comp.  

This is where you lose me. It isn't a fact. We traded him out, we actively sought another player knowing we would use what we got for Hogan to source that player.

Now there are whispers to the contrary of your whispers.

You should be more equivocal with your 'inside knowledge' if indeed you have that inside knowledge. Because it sounds like you are not told much of the truth.

I told you I believed my lying eyes and my lying eyes were right.

And that is a fact.

[Willmoy1947 4,100]

I know this is the Hogan hullabaloo thread, but maybe there could deservedly be a JDG versus CP one as a stand alone.

On the latter matter, twice this year, at least, i noticed JDG kick for goal (and miss, when there were better options) at a crucial stage in each game, one of which was a final.

I would hate to think what this site would have done to CP in the same circumstances let alone our coaches . By far i would prefer CP.  

His instinctive nature is to the Team. The other's is to the crowd..........

[Deestar9 1,636]

JH has considerable issues & that is a fact.  Considerable issues.  As has been mentioned several times ...what he has had to face as a very young man ....completely understandable so no criticism there... whether he achieves his enormous potential at Freo...we will see.  I only wish him well but the MFC are here & now so as much as I hate losing such a unique talent...we will be fine without him. I have a quiet snigger ...when he was at Melb ...always the “go back to Freo” issue & “don’t need  him with the emergence of Weid etc & plenty of criticism about his attitude..kicking etc .. now  he’s  at Freo....”the salvation of the Freo footy club ”  I think it is a “win win” for both clubs ...only time will tell  who did the better. I thank him for what he bought to the MFC & unlike the defection of Scully”, I will move on pretty quickly & acknowledge the classy way MFC dealt with this . 

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

Stop rabbiting on about Jessie’s considerable issues he’s had to deal with. He’s a man. He needs to deal with it.

perosnally, he has been riding on the reputation of his ‘potential’ for too long. 

I believe we have won by trading him out. He won’t be the generational player he was billed as and we get a strong key back to add to our side.

 

[John Crow Batty 8,871]

22 minutes ago, Fitz Fitzpatrick said:

Stop rabbiting on about Jessie’s considerable issues he’s had to deal with. He’s a man. He needs to deal with it.

perosnally, he has been riding on the reputation of his ‘potential’ for too long. 

I believe we have won by trading him out. He won’t be the generational player he was billed as and we get a strong key back to add to our side.

 

Every one handles difficult situations differently. There is no doubt about his enormous talent. If he had potential to be an elite commando, jet pilot, astronaut or any other elite skill, extreme high performance job he will never make make it. He would not be made of the right stuff as they would say. If he can’t externalise outside issues from his game he’s never going to be the elite footballer he has promised to be. Elite footballers at the top of their game can externalise private issues and consistently perform at the highest level.

Edited October 23, 2018 by america de cali

[drysdale demon 4,837]

10 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Every one handles difficult situations differently. There is no doubt about his enormous talent. If he had potential to be an elite commando, jet pilot, astronaut or any other elite skill, extreme high performance job he will never make make it.

How the effing hell would you know that? Have you been involved in any of those scenarios?

[John Crow Batty 8,871]

11 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

How the effing hell would you know that? Have you been involved in any of those scenarios?

Hey, lost my father due to cancer when I was only a few years older than Jesse, My brother also lost his wife to cancer leaving him to look after two young children alone. My uncle who was a well known artist lost his only child due to Leukemia. 

Edited October 23, 2018 by america de cali

[drysdale demon 4,837]

14 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Hey, lost my father due to cancer when I was only a few years older than Jesse, My brother also lost his wife to cancer leaving him to look after two young children alone. My uncle who was a well known artist lost his only child due to Leukemia. 

I"m sorry for those losses to you, but I was referring to your statement suggesting Hogan would not be able to do well in the areas you mentioned and that he was not made of the right stuff.

[John Crow Batty 8,871]

11 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

I"m sorry for those losses to you, but I was referring to your statement suggesting Hogan would not be able to do well in the areas you mentioned and that he was not made of the right stuff.

If he was a candidate for one of these elite professions I mentioned he would be weeded out because he would let personal issues and personality affect his work. We are talking about him being an elite footballer at the pointiest end and not a Bunnings greeter here. All too often, character and external issues appear to affect his game. He does remind me of  Fevola or Matthew Richardson in that regard. 

Edited October 23, 2018 by america de cali

[binman 43,138]

9 minutes ago, america de cali said:

If he was a candidate for one of these elite professions I mentioned he would be weeded out because he would let personal issues and personality affect his work.

Rubbish. Talk about revisionism.

In what way did jessie not perform at a high level?.

A 23 year old kpf averaging two goals a game, despite coming into a team averaging 60 odd points a game and basically never winning.

Also despite often getting doubled team in his first 3 seasons and being our number one forward. Elite numbers and as goody said was in an form in the first half of this season.

All of that whilst dealing with his well publicized issues (a way from his support network) And perhaps his less known ones. By that I mean the mental health issues Micheal Gleeson noted he has experienced in a recent article. 

Sounds like someone who is well able to 'compartmentalise' and perform at an elite level in a extremely demanding elite profession. Weeded out? Sheesh.

 

[drysdale demon 4,837]

58 minutes ago, america de cali said:

If he was a candidate for one of these elite professions I mentioned he would be weeded out because he would let personal issues and personality affect his work. We are talking about him being an elite footballer at the pointiest end and not a Bunnings greeter here. All too often, character and external issues appear to affect his game. He does remind me of  Fevola or Matthew Richardson in that regard. 

Have you been involved in one of those professions to enable you to make that statement?

[Lord Travis 10,743]

Not sure why some are laying into Hogan or saying he didn't perform. The reason there is so much talk about him leaving is because he is an elite talent.

He is the best new key position forward to come through in over a decade, the best since Buddy. Fact. The numbers show that.

He walked into a bottom team with little supply and poor quality supply and was able to win the Rising Star - rarely done by a key forward, let alone one competing with Patrick Cripps - kick 40+ goals and lead the league in contested marks as a first year player. He towelled up All Australian full back Alex Rance in one of his first games. He's ahead of all others in the league at the same age, and still has further improvement to go. He's already capable of being in the top handful of key forwards and goal kickers in the league, and will only improve further. He'd likely have wound up one of MFC's greatest goal kickers barring bad injury problems. Those talking him down are kidding themselves.

We've lost an elite talent, but the club has made the most of him leaving to balance the list and keep pushing towards a premiership. While it's a shame to lose Hogan, it won't kill us like it would've 4-5 years ago. We're stronger now, and will keep rising to glory ?

[ding 5,126]

3 hours ago, america de cali said:

If he was a candidate for one of these elite professions I mentioned he would be weeded out because he would let personal issues and personality affect his work. We are talking about him being an elite footballer at the pointiest end and not a Bunnings greeter here. All too often, character and external issues appear to affect his game. He does remind me of  Fevola or Matthew Richardson in that regard. 

1

My  daughter was a Bunnings Greeter. 

Recently got promoted to the plant department. I KNEW she was made of the right stuff.

 

 

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

 

Freo kicked less goals than every other team this season bar Carlton and Gold Coast. And now an average midfield just got worse by losing it’s dual B & F winner. 

Jesse is going to miss the record number of inside 50’s that our mids supplied this year. It maybe worthwhile watching Freo games next year to see just how many games it will take for a Jesse body language meltdown. 

[hemingway 7,628]

Are there any lessons in the Hogan affair, in regard to drafting and management?

My guess is that the Club managed his issues as best they could.

However, at the end of the day, the Club invested an enormous amount of time and money into keeping him at the club. 

More than most. 

It is hard to argue that his performance over that time was a good return on investment. 

Particularly now that he has left the club and will ply his trade elsewhere.

Freo may capitalize on that MFC investment or become frustrated with their lack of return.    

The history of Scully and now Hogan suggest that Clubs will think very carefully about investing big bucks in young draftees. 

Paying top dollar for experienced players with an established track record is another matter and these guys will continue to attract top dollar.  

 

[nutbean 8,838]

1 hour ago, ding said:

My  daughter was a Bunnings Greeter. 

Recently got promoted to the plant department. I KNEW she was made of the right stuff.

 

 

My advice to her is to start taking  blood and bone and she could get promoted to the tree department...

[John Crow Batty 8,871]

1 hour ago, ding said:

My  daughter was a Bunnings Greeter. 

Recently got promoted to the plant department. I KNEW she was made of the right stuff.

 

 

Get her to sign up for The AFLW. For the Dees of course.

[Watson11 2,241]

1 hour ago, hemingway said:

It is hard to argue that his performance over that time was a good return on investment.   

The history of Scully and now Hogan suggest that Clubs will think very carefully about investing big bucks in young draftees. 

Paying top dollar for experienced players with an established track record is another matter and these guys will continue to attract top dollar.  

 

I’m happy to argue it Hemingway.  Not every investment pays off long term but if you don’t make them you end up broke.  In Hogan’s case we got a good return while invested, but now sold that and invested it elsewhere.

Jesse was drafted into the club when we were basket cases.  Since he arrived we have gone from the basement to top 4.  He made an impact as soon as he got on the ground and every year he was here the club improved and he was a part of it.  Circumstances (Tmac becoming an elite forward, Weid stepping up at the end of the season), meant the FD were open to a trade.

For every go home factor, or top draft getting a once in a lifetime offer, there are the Olivers and Brayshaws that if we didn’t invest in them we’d be back in the cellar soon enough.

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,816]

33 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

I’m happy to argue it Hemingway.  Not every investment pays off long term but if you don’t make them you end up broke.  In Hogan’s case we got a good return while invested, but now sold that and invested it elsewhere.

Jesse was drafted into the club when we were basket cases.  Since he arrived we have gone from the basement to top 4.  He made an impact as soon as he got on the ground and every year he was here the club improved and he was a part of it.  Circumstances (Tmac becoming an elite forward, Weid stepping up at the end of the season), meant the FD were open to a trade.

For every go home factor, or top draft getting a once in a lifetime offer, there are the Olivers and Brayshaws that if we didn’t invest in them we’d be back in the cellar soon enough.

 

This is an important part of the investment equation which some seem to not understand. While we had good value from Hogan as a player we also extracted value from him as a trade. There's no way we would have got May and Kolodjashnij without having had Hogan to trade. I know it's commoditizing players to describe them this way, but Hogan was a valuable asset both as a player and as trade currency.

In other words, his value to the club extends beyond the years he played with us. 

Edited October 24, 2018 by La Dee-vina Comedia
Added last sentence