On 13/08/2018 at 03:13, DV8 said:

It depends not on GWS,,,   but on the players themselves,  IF they want to move to Melbourne ?

Cap space will be another issue for GWS at some stage you'd think

  On 13/08/2018 at 03:14, Wiseblood said:

Where do we draw the line though, Moonie?  Does Oliver have a couple of shockers and we start talking trades on him?

I just think even considering trading a key forward, who is capable of 50 plus goals a game, when there is no one out there to replace his goals and his output, is a little short sighted.

And BA's suggestions might sound good on paper, but they make no sense for us, nor would GWS or GC really entertain those at this point.  

In your mind what are the attributes of a  key forward and how do Hogan's attributes match?

  On 13/08/2018 at 03:24, demoniac said:

In your mind what are the attributes of a  key forward and how do Hogan's attributes match?

A key forward kicks goals - he has 47 for the year and you would expect he gets 50 by the end.

He can take marks - he has taken 125 of these throughout the year which is very high for all key forwards in the comp.

He has a great tank, which allows him not just to play deep, but to also play further up the ground.  He is also an excellent field kick.

I readily admit his kicking for goal still needs work, but this year he has been much, much better, as his 47.23 suggests.

We are vastly underrating the bloke and his value to our side.

  On 13/08/2018 at 03:23, MSFebey said:

Cap space will be another issue for GWS at some stage you'd think

I would hope so MSF.

  On 13/08/2018 at 03:21, Moonshadow said:

Unlikely as they've just signed Gov for 5 years at $385mill per season and the compo pick they'd get for Gaff would likely be around mid 1st round

Wait what? McGovern is getting 385 Million per season??

If we had mids and half forwards that could actually hit a target when they kicked, Jessie would have confidence in leading, would kick 60-80 goals a year and be an absolute superstar. Spend our time improving the delivery of the likes of Jones, Tyson, Petracca, Brayshaw, Spargo, ANB, Viney et al, and our game plan would work, our forward line, and Hogan in particular, would be almost unbeatable, and all this ridiculous chat about trading Hogan would disappear.

  On 13/08/2018 at 03:39, Neil Crompton said:

If we had mids and half forwards that could actually hit a target when they kicked, Jessie would have confidence in leading, would kick 60-80 goals a year and be an absolute superstar. Spend our time improving the delivery of the likes of Jones, Tyson, Petracca, Brayshaw, Spargo, ANB, Viney et al, and our game plan would work, our forward line, and Hogan in particular, would be almost unbeatable, and all this ridiculous chat about trading Hogan would disappear.

So its our midfield that's the Problem, NC?

Hogan hasn’t turned out to be the great full forward we all hoped he would be.

  On 13/08/2018 at 03:44, DV8 said:

So its our midfield that's the Problem, NC?

The delivery at times is ordinary however Jess struggles to get in right position and when he does win the ball his kicking for goal is poor. This holding the ball and moving it left /right etc before kicking is not what should be done. Just hold the ball and run straight at the goals. I hope he can become a first class KPF but must start taking strong pack marks, lead more often and kick bloody straight. Still a youngster so here's hopeing.

  On 13/08/2018 at 03:44, DV8 said:

So its our midfield that's the Problem, NC?

I think its our delivery that's the problem, whether be mids, forwards or backs. Hogan appears to have no confidence in that delivery, so he hesitates. Put Hogan at the Tigers, West Coast, the Cats or Giants - teams that can hit a target - and he'd be a superstar. 

What a humorous thread.

Our delivery inside 50 continues to be horrendous and people are wanting to trade a key forward because of it. 

The kid is carrying an injury which is probably why his kicking has gone off, but to talk of trade is ludicrous 

Jones goes first in my book. He is done. 

Father time is at the door ? 

  On 13/08/2018 at 03:14, Wiseblood said:

Where do we draw the line though, Moonie?  Does Oliver have a couple of shockers and we start talking trades on him?

I just think even considering trading a key forward, who is capable of 50 plus goals a game, when there is no one out there to replace his goals and his output, is a little short sighted.

And BA's suggestions might sound good on paper, but they make no sense for us, nor would GWS or GC really entertain those at this point.  

Geez you're stubborn Wise!

I said earlier, the line for untradable (whatever that means) should be Oliver and Gawn.

And Hogan hasn't kicked 50 in a game (!) Or even 50 in a season yet. Let's not get ahead of ourselves, particularly with foot scans in play.

I thought BAs suggestions plausible. To some extent, contracts mean zilch. GWS may want to retain The Rabbit or Whitfield, but if... if they want out a trade is likely. 'If' being the critical word. Apparently Gov jnr at Adelaide will be doing just that in October. Strange things happen at trade time.

Hogan's current contract finishes in 14 months. We might be forced to trade him out. What is he realistically worth on the open market and what trade scenarios could be worked? Or shall we just keep our heads in the sand...

Edited August 13, 20186 yr by Moonshadow

  On 13/08/2018 at 03:58, Moonshadow said:

Geez you're stubborn Wise!

I know mate.  It's not one of my best qualities when it comes to how I support the club.  I'm too old to change now!

  On 13/08/2018 at 03:06, Jaded said:

We already get max output from Tmac.

Weideman is a total unknown. I have yet to see him do anything at AFL level to suggest he is any good.

Petracca is a bigger downhill skier than Hogan.

Gawn is a full time ruckman. Will never play enough forward to kick 50.

Hannan? Lol.

What you're suggesting, is that by getting rid of Hogan we will magically get other players to step up and cover his 50 goals, although even with him in the team taking the best defender, neither Trac nor Weiderman nor Hannan have cracked 30 goals between them in a season. 

With regards to TMac Jaded I don’t think we honestly know what his maximum output is. We’ve never seen him at FF for a whole game, let alone a whole season.

  On 13/08/2018 at 03:26, Wiseblood said:

A key forward kicks goals - he has 47 for the year and you would expect he gets 50 by the end.

He can take marks - he has taken 125 of these throughout the year which is very high for all key forwards in the comp.

He has a great tank, which allows him not just to play deep, but to also play further up the ground.  He is also an excellent field kick.

I readily admit his kicking for goal still needs work, but this year he has been much, much better, as his 47.23 suggests.

We are vastly underrating the bloke and his value to our side.

Glad to see somebody is posting common sense on this rubbish thread. Hogan is a required player. END. OF. STORY!

  On 13/08/2018 at 00:17, Die Hard Demon said:

Hogan will always be limited by his attitudinal problems. And what I mean is that he's a big sook who will never change. 

We should trade him now whilst he still has some value. 

And funnily enough I feel the Heeney mark of the year will add to Hogans problems. Watching replays of Heeney standing on his head will just make him regress further into his shell. 

Nah that's a load of crap.

  On 13/08/2018 at 04:19, Philthy said:

Glad to see somebody is posting common sense on this rubbish thread. Hogan is a required player. END. OF. STORY!

With his contract expiring in 14 months I'd say common sense would be to consider options rather than shouting outrage.

If he re-signs, good. If not, what are some of the possible outcomes (apart from many on this thread crying in a foetal position)

Potting Hogan is premature and/or misguided.

I think he’s carrying an injury.

  On 13/08/2018 at 04:25, Wolfturdo said:

Nah that's a load of crap.

time will tell 

  On 13/08/2018 at 02:25, Philthy said:

Exactly! Lot of blokes will be eating humble pie realllllll soon!

Is there a time table for this ?

To me the essence of all of this is will Hogan ever consistently be ...not injured...in form...in right mindspace...is ...fulfilling the potential/idea-of-player-people-think-he-is as opposed now.

I'm more concerned...impressed that...he can hit the side of a barn against decent opposition....than split the flags on a slalom run.

if we do keep him i think we need to see him as just the player he is. a good average player. 

We need to drastically improve the way we utilise Hogan otherwise it'll be another wasted talent chewed up and spat out by the MFC.

If I was him I'd be very frustrated.

Trade him?

Seriously, some people have even less than NFI.

  On 13/08/2018 at 04:33, Mach5 said:

Potting Hogan is premature and/or misguided.

I think he’s carrying an injury.

Pretty sure he's playing sore. Anyway, this thread's discussion may be better served by ignoring yesterday's horror show. 

  On 13/08/2018 at 04:55, McQueen said:

We need to drastically improve the way we utilise Hogan otherwise it'll be another wasted talent chewed up and spat out by the MFC.

Well said Steve.  The way in which we use our forward entries is not conducive to someone like Jesse who prefers it on the lead or one out deep in the forward line where he can use his strength.  Kicking it to him when there are 6 other blokes around doesn't exactly give him a chance to play to his strengths.

  On 13/08/2018 at 01:58, rpfc said:

There is no negative emoji to put onto posts so I will say this:

Those that want to trade Hogan are betraying their lack of footy knowledge and intelligence. And they are also revealing they don’t know what ‘drives’ football clubs. 

Hogan playing hurt for the team must give a little bit extra for the players and he has my appreciation and admiration as a supporter. 

He was also in the discussion for AA earlier in the year.

Beggars belief some of your neuroses, Land.

So he played hurt against the Suns for what reason?