Open Mike with Mark Neeld on Fox Footy (4/9)

[chookrat 4,247]

24 minutes ago, Wadda We Sing said:

Did he give any indication he might go to another club like Richmond or Hawthorn for a season?

An interesting proposition - could Neeld be appointed to top clubs in a senior football capacity as an equalisation measure of sorts? 

Edited September 4, 2018 by chookrat
Spelling mistake

[Biffen 12,940]

21 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Don't spend too much time sitting on the toilet Biff. You might be tempting fate if you share certain traits with one Aaron Elvis Presley.

my wife will take umbrage with your comments when she gets home from cheerleading practise.

[praha 11,237]

19 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Bang!

 

Brad Green

 

@bradgreen18

 

Open Mike with Mark Neeld

#pinocchio

Ironic. The club's downfall in the early part of the decade started before Neeld arrived, when Green was captain and led a player protest on the way to a 200 point loss.

Neeld wasn't the caused of our problems. He was a symptom. So was Green in the twilight of his career.

Neeld at least is diplomatic albeit dismissive of accountability. It wasn't Neeld's fault that Bailey was sacked. Or that the club was in the position it was in when he arrived.

But sure, Brad. Whatever you say.

And yeah I am sympathetic of Neeld's plight. People forget our first year with Roos was also garbage. Neeld inherited a club and team on its deathbed. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by praha

[Jibroni 4,987]

12 minutes ago, praha said:

And yeah I am sympathetic of Neeld's plight. People forget our first year with Roos was also garbage. Neeld inherited a club and team on its deathbed.  

Yes I tend to agree, I don't think we realise how bad the list was before Neeld arrived. Having said that he was never the right man for the job and those that appointed him should also be accountable. If not for Roosy I dare say we would still be in this position.

 

[McQueen 17,864]

That was the worst Open Mike ever.

Neeld couldn’t even describe his role at Essendon but reading between the lines he managed to upset all of the line coaches and game analysts enough that his good mate Woosha couldn’t save him.

Just a load of rambling nonsense.

[deanox 9,902]

1 hour ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Hearing his side of the story, it seems like a lot of the direction was given to him by higher powers. Lyon, McLardy and Schwab hatched one of the worst plans in footballing history.

Also, he believed the players basically voted in Grimes and Trengove.

No Jack Watts questions.

 

1 hour ago, Jaded said:

Yep. Those three should be ashamed of themselves. Making decisions they had no business making. Ripping the heart of the club. Banishing senior players. Then completely effing up every draft pick. Disgraceful. 

Three blind monkeys. 

 

Lots of things we can pot Neeld for,  he did an awful job. It is worth putting that aweful performance in context with the following events that were outside of his control:

- We were on the back of 186 and our complete implosion on and off field;

- It became quickly apparent that preseason how far behind the competition we we're when it was exposed that our list doesn't meet the minimum fitness requirements of the "in vogue" game plan of the time (Collingwood);

- Immediately prior to the season our president and club legend retired then died;

- Our 2011 leading goal kicker attacked someone with a machette and only played one game;

- We had spent big to bring in Mitch Clarke who busted early with injury;

- We had off field issues with sponsors and the tanking investigation. 

 

In his defense, and this is difficult, but we had a rubbish culture where tail wagged dog. I'd be surprised if anyone truly thinks we were on the right track after 186, after the canceled time trials etc.

It was so clear at the time that our "senior" players had no leadership abilities and were not setting standards. Jones wasn't yet a leader, Green was an unsuccessful leader,  and Moloney - as much as I enjoyed him when on song - was a selfish player who from reporters actively worked against the coach and was a big part of 186.

At the time Neeld needed to rebuild the club culture from within,  and I have no doubt that Grimes and Trengove were the best "leaders" on the list. The players and support staff were asked rate all players on a number of leadership qualities and they voted those two by such a margin it was fait accompli. I agree they were too young but Neeld took a risk to try and salvage something; If Trenners didn't get injured it may have worked out. 

A similar analysis:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/how-the-demons-blundered-on-young-cocaptains-20141202-11yq5n.html

 

Neelds tenure was a horrible, torrid and unsuccessful time. But his legacy is that he cut out the rot from our playing list in the brutal manner that was needed to allow us to start to grow our culture from scratch, without it constantly being tainted by the previous generation. A bit like a heavy pruning of the garden that leaves it bare and ugly, but allows it to regrow.

Edited September 4, 2018 by deanox

[Roger Mellie 3,994]

32 minutes ago, McQueen said:

That was the worst Open Mike ever.

Neeld couldn’t even describe his role at Essendon but reading between the lines he managed to upset all of the line coaches and game analysts enough that his good mate Woosha couldn’t save him.

Just a load of rambling nonsense.

He left Geelong because he had kids really young

?

To sum up - nothing was his fault and to echo Steve above, rambling rubbish.

[deanox 9,902]

Also leadership group in 2011:

Brad Green, Aaron Davey, Jared Rivers and Brent Moloney 

In 2012:

Jack Trengove, Jack Grimes, Clint Bartram, Mitch Clark, James Frawley, Colin Garland, Mark Jamar and Nathan Jones.

[praha 11,237]

6 minutes ago, deanox said:

 

 

Lots of things we can pot Neeld for,  he did an awful job. It is worth putting that aweful performance in context with the following events that were outside of his control:

- We were on the back of 186 and our complete implosion on and off field;

- It became quickly apparent that preseason how far behind the competition we we're when it was exposed that our list doesn't meet the minimum fitness requirements of the "in vogue" game plan of the time (Collingwood);

- Immediately prior to the season our president and club legend retired then died;

- Our 2011 leading goal kicker attacked someone with a machette and only played one game;

- We had spent big to bring in Mitch Clarke who busted early with injury;

- We had off field issues with sponsors and the tanking investigation. 

 

In his defense, and this is difficult, but we had a rubbish culture where tail wagged dog. I'd be surprised if anyone truly thinks we were on the right track after 186, after the canceled time trials etc.

It was so clear at the time that our "senior" players had no leadership abilities and were not setting standards. Jones wasn't yet a leader, Green was an unsuccessful leader,  and Moloney - as much as I enjoyed him when on song - was a selfish player who from reporters actively worked against the coach and was a big part of 186.

At the time Neeld needed to rebuild the club culture from within,  and I have no doubt that Grimes and Trengove were the best "leaders" on the list. The players and support staff were asked rate all players on a number of leadership qualities and they voted those two by such a margin it was fait accompli. I agree they were too young but Neeld took a risk to try and salvage something; f Trenners didn't get injured it may have worked out. 

 

Neelds tenure was a horrible, torrid and unsuccessful time. But his legacy is that he cut out the rot from our playing list in the brutal manner that was needed to allow us to start to grow our culture from scratch, without it constantly being tainted by the previous generation. A bit like a heavy pruning of the garden that leaves it bare and ugly, but allows it to regrow.

100%. He acknowledged and said of a lot of the harsh truths that many didn't want to hear. When Roos said a more refined and diplomatic version of the same thing 12 months later we all followed him and nodded in agreement like as if Neeld had somehow put us in the mess we were in. 

There was really nothing wrong with Neeld's vision. Schoolboys like Green couldn't hack it. The problem was the execution and Neeld just being a terrible coach.

[layzie 33,767]

Forgot to IQ it. Will watch that flubbering yahoo tomorrow 

[deanox 9,902]

3 minutes ago, praha said:

100%. He acknowledged and said of a lot of the harsh truths that many didn't want to hear. When Roos said a more refined and diplomatic version of the same thing 12 months later we all followed him and nodded in agreement like as if Neeld had somehow put us in the mess we were in. 

There was really nothing wrong with Neeld's vision. Schoolboys like Green couldn't hack it. The problem was the execution and Neeld just being a terrible coach.

I'd elaborate by saying after Neeld did the hard stuff someone had to do (even Green said that in an interview in early 2012, about how Neeld was ruthless, making the group work harder than ever before and direct in his appraisals), Roos had the "easier" job of repairing and rebuilding trust,  and developing a culture relatively free of toxic influences. 

Roos could be more diplomatic because the time for hard words was over. 

 

I say all this in complete agreement that overall, Neeld had terrible execution and was a terrible coach. 

[Wolfturdo 123]

6 minutes ago, layzie said:

Forgot to IQ it. Will watch that flubbering yahoo tomorrow 

Just watch it now it’s on Fox Footy.

[layzie 33,767]

2 minutes ago, Wolfturdo said:

Just watch it now it’s on Fox Footy.

Too late to get worked up. 

[MudDogs Gawn Win.. someday 499]

2 hours ago, Jaded said:

Seems unaffected by it all. At the end of the day he has a wife and kids and he is a person. I wish him well, so long as he stays the hell away from my club. 

Na.. Bugger him. If was that bad at my job. I wouldnt of been able to get another one in the same industry again.

[MudDogs Gawn Win.. someday 499]

16 minutes ago, praha said:

100%. He acknowledged and said of a lot of the harsh truths that many didn't want to hear. When Roos said a more refined and diplomatic version of the same thing 12 months later we all followed him and nodded in agreement like as if Neeld had somehow put us in the mess we were in. 

There was really nothing wrong with Neeld's vision. Schoolboys like Green couldn't hack it. The problem was the execution and Neeld just being a terrible coach.

I know the board was in ruins and the 180 point loss was diabolical. But he inherited a list that had managed to win 8.5 games the two previous years, that was renown for being able to rebound of the half backline just as good as any, all be it mainly against mid tier and lower sides. He had a base to build on not completely rip the soul out of.

He made Green start as a SUB!

Told our reigning BnF and best midfielder to basically F off ( i know moloney had issues)

Recruited the worst players from Geelong.

He imploded from rd1 and developed a twitch.

Im not sure if you remember. But the training sessions I went to at Casey, he would sit in the coaches box up the top and just watch. He had a room for players to come into to talk footy and a room to come in and not talk footy.

This guy was a complete looney.

[DV8 2,271]

On 9/3/2018 at 12:02 PM, Baghdad Bob said:

I'm not defending Neeld, I didn't like him from his first presser when appointed but it's never just one man.  The whole club was toxic and divided and the list was terrible.  He put the explanation mark on a terrible period.  

Nobody at the Club intended to hurt it, they were just out of their depth.  I'll watch with interest, it's part of our history and just highlights the strides we've made and the wonderful contributions of all involved since PJ was appointed.

But IMO it's time to put the knives away for the Stynes/McLardy era and enjoy our growth both on and off the field.

He was at the beginning of the rebirth.

He had the job of pulling the big craap wall down.  Like him, or Loathe him... he did it, and he started the regrowth...  by crushing the bad old habits.

He pulled the rug from under some very very cosy attitudes, inside our club.

Wattshisname rebelled, after having things on his terms for 3 years.  As did others. 

Neeld rid us off those who were damaged and sour...  some remained. 

Who here really thinks Watts was cursed by Neeld, or was it the other way around ?   the culture, Pre Neeld ?

 

Who here remembers the rumours coming out of AAMI park back then,,, supposedly from the mouths of Melbourne Storm players... about our habits in the GYM and our training methods.   Not Neeld's habits.

 

He smashed those things... and allowed a Fresh Sweep of the floor... 

which allowed Roosy to come thru, amongst The Renovators.  PJ the AFL, and associated assistants.

 

.

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, praha said:

Ironic. The club's downfall in the early part of the decade started before Neeld arrived, when Green was captain and led a player protest on the way to a 200 point loss.

Neeld wasn't the caused of our problems. He was a symptom. So was Green in the twilight of his career.

Neeld at least is diplomatic albeit dismissive of accountability. It wasn't Neeld's fault that Bailey was sacked. Or that the club was in the position it was in when he arrived.

But sure, Brad. Whatever you say.

And yeah I am sympathetic of Neeld's plight. People forget our first year with Roos was also garbage. Neeld inherited a club and team on its deathbed. 

He inherited a  'Humpty-Dumpty'  on the wall.  Had the guts to crack it with a spoon...

 

Then got the all the kings hoses and all the kings men, to scrape up the debris;  and build a new one.  a New Millennia Demons.

[rjay 24,896]

24 minutes ago, deanox said:

I'd elaborate by saying after Neeld did the hard stuff someone had to do (even Green said that in an interview in early 2012, about how Neeld was ruthless, making the group work harder than ever before and direct in his appraisals), Roos had the "easier" job of repairing and rebuilding trust,  and developing a culture relatively free of toxic influences. 

Roos could be more diplomatic because the time for hard words was over. 

  

I say all this in complete agreement that overall, Neeld had terrible execution and was a terrible coach. 

Can't agree with this 'deanox'.

In his first few years Roos turned over most of our list. He inherited a disaster.

It wasn't repairing, it was a total club rebuild with Jackson at the helm.

The blame has to be shared for the mess, no doubt.

Neeld played his part but die was cast well before he arrived.

[WERRIDEE 5,455]

Neeld was a joke completely destroyed the club Roos had to re build. He takes 50% of the blame Bailey takes the other 50% both woeful coaches thanks Garry Lyon for your input. NEVER AGAIN.

[rjay 24,896]

4 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

Neeld was a joke completely destroyed the club Roos had to re build. He takes 50% of the blame Bailey takes the other 50% both woeful coaches thanks Garry Lyon for your input. NEVER AGAIN.

No 'WERRIDEE', not even close.

The totally incompetent board we had at the time should take most of the blame.

The board that was responsible for the CEO, allowed Lyon to be coopted to a role he had no experience in and didn't take the hard decisions when Jimmy was ailing among other things. The same board that appointed Neeld.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,495]

That was just so underwhelming.  There was just no substance or depth to any of the questions or answers and I don’t think there was anything there that wasn’t already public knowledge.

Something that surprised me was that when asked what he’d do differently, he replied he’d investigate, question and challenge the club’s decision to move on senior player at the end of 2011.  He often referred to how young the list was that he inherited and lay the blame at the feet of the admin.  At the end of 2011, we delisted or traded out:

Matthew Warnock

Addam Maric

McNamara (rookie)

and Cameron Johnston (rookie)

Where is this mass culling of senior players that he referred to numerous times throughout the interview???

He then claimed that we brought in a significant number of young players for his first year, but in fact we brought in:

Mitch Clark (mature)

James Magner (mature)

James Sellar (mature)

Leigh Williams (mature)

 

He claimed that he went for all out youth and knew it would be a long, slow rebuild as a consequence, but that does nothing to explain the following preseason bringing in:

Rodan

Byrnes

Dawes

Pedersen

Gillies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Elegt 872]

20 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

That was just so underwhelming.  There was just no substance or depth to any of the questions or answers and I don’t think there was anything there that wasn’t already public knowledge.

Something that surprised me was that when asked what he’d do differently, he replied he’d investigate, question and challenge the club’s decision to move on senior player at the end of 2011.  He often referred to how young the list was that he inherited and lay the blame at the feet of the admin.  At the end of 2011, we delisted or traded out:

Matthew Warnock

Addam Maric

McNamara (rookie)

and Cameron Johnston (rookie)

Where is this mass culling of senior players that he referred to numerous times throughout the interview???

He then claimed that we brought in a significant number of young players for his first year, but in fact we brought in:

Mitch Clark (mature)

James Magner (mature)

James Sellar (mature)

Leigh Williams (mature)

 

He claimed that he went for all out youth and knew it would be a long, slow rebuild as a consequence, but that does nothing to explain the following preseason bringing in:

Rodan

Byrnes

Dawes

Pedersen

Gillies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

the bloke is either a compulsive liar or just brainless 

[DV8 2,271]

26 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

Neeld was a joke completely destroyed the club Roos had to re build. He takes 50% of the blame Bailey takes the other 50% both woeful coaches thanks Garry Lyon for your input. NEVER AGAIN.

The club was already destroyed, Pre Neeld...   a ruddy mess, Pre Bailey.  

Full of big-head fish in a tiny pond.  with no real work ethic or true professional attitudes.   We again thought, we were way better, than what we were.

Tried to rebuild with old boys, and made things worse.

 

Pointing fingers of blame, is only doing more of the same,,, of that which was happening with the players at the time, before Neeld was even a thought.

He crushed what was rotten and allowed a cleanup.

 

To replace a foul ingrown culture, you have to incise the wound, cut away all necrotic tissue.. and swab out the wound with saline &  anti-septic,  cover and seal.

Let healing begin.

Then look to grafts to cover the old wound area, if required.

[Satyriconhome 10,740]

1 hour ago, MudDogs Gawn Win.. someday said:

Na.. Bugger him. If was that bad at my job. I wouldnt of been able to get another one in the same industry again.

Now that is a silly statement, I have worked in the oil industry, where appalling workers just move between the companies 

I know one who did all 4

Neeld was on a hiding to nothing,  he tried, he failed, sadly attempting to rewrite history a bit, but he is not alone in doing that

[praha 11,237]

1 hour ago, MudDogs Gawn Win.. someday said:

I know the board was in ruins and the 180 point loss was diabolical. But he inherited a list that had managed to win 8.5 games the two previous years, that was renown for being able to rebound of the half backline just as good as any, all be it mainly against mid tier and lower sides. He had a base to build on not completely rip the soul out of.

He made Green start as a SUB!

Told our reigning BnF and best midfielder to basically F off ( i know moloney had issues)

Recruited the worst players from Geelong.

He imploded from rd1 and developed a twitch.

Im not sure if you remember. But the training sessions I went to at Casey, he would sit in the coaches box up the top and just watch. He had a room for players to come into to talk footy and a room to come in and not talk footy.

This guy was a complete looney.

Granted but that same 8.5 win team lost by 186 points. and could barely get within 10 goals of any team above 10th on the ladder. He was a [censored] coach. No one doubted that. 

He also inherited a bunch of non-professionals who would joke around at training and throw up on each other on trips. 

This was a guy that had come from a Premiership winning Pies team, that had also played in a GF the year before and won 23 of 25 matches. He mentioned when he first arrived how had the training habits and approach to game day conditioning was. I think he saw a team that was so far off the line that he saw no option but to go to an absolute extreme. It may not have been the right decision, but he essentially went from driving a Ferrari to driving a Datsun.

Not trying to defend his mistakes, and it may not have gotten as bad had he never have come on, but all I'm saying is that it had already gone to [censored]. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by praha