Previous players downfalls

[Dr.D 1,771]

Genuinely keen for peoples thoughts on the following players and why they didn't make it as AFL players. Often, as supporters we have rose-coloured goggles with regards to any players we pick up but I'm interested to know years later why the following didn't cut the grade whether it be due to injury or a specific part of their game such as competitiveness, kicking, decision-making, off-field stuff etc. A lot of these guys were high draft picks and their development (or lack of) really dictated where our club went for many many years. So what went wrong. 

Addam Maric: I thought he was going to be the small forward we needed at the time but never really fired a shot. Why?
Tapscott: He was one of my favourite players at the time but only played 48 games. Injury? Speed? 
Bate: Right from his first game I always found his kicking to be awkward but everyone was saying he was our next Pavlich due to his size and playing in the midfield. What happened? Lack of skills, maybe speed?
Strauss: Horrific leg injury amongst others. Elite kicking but never fired a shot at afl level. Competitiveness? 
Blease: had skills and pace to burn but also didn't get out of the gates. What was it? Lack of competitiveness?
Cale Morton: Pick 4. Got it wrong. I think we tried to get fancy with this pick. He was just very weak in the contest I suppose. 
Gysberts: Always found the ball but then before I knew it, he was out of favour and out the door. Skills? 
Lucas Cook: God help us. Nice kick but was slow and looked asleep half of the time at vfl level or even vfl reserves level. 
Jack Grimes: Made it as a co-captain so this may be a tad harsh but what happened to him? His decision making was always a bit iffy and his kicking out of the backline was always quite costly but he tried hard and was a good overhead mark but he would have to almost be the record holder for the quickest captain to delisting time frame. 
Jimmy Toumpas: I was stoked when we got this guy at the draft. He had neat skills, a clever mover around the ground and a bit of personality about him. What was his downfall? Speed? Size? Competitiveness? 


 

[buck_nekkid 6,089]

Gawd, you like to roll around in the muck.  Like one of those weirdo Christian brothers that whips himself (after whipping himself).  Get help man!

[Dee Zephyr 19,291]

If this thread doesn’t pump you up for tonight, nothing will. 

 

[durango 2,023]

When I was at Melbourne Football Club Ray Jordan was the reserves coach and his criteria was the play need a little C..T in them to make it at AFL football, Players who were soft and did not have this fell by the wayside all the players mentioned above had ability but lacked that ingrediant.

[Chook 15,032]

29 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

Addam Maric: Selfish
Tapscott: Dumb
Bate: Turning circle worse than the Queen Mary
Strauss: Leg injury but really I never saw any signs that he'd be any good regardless
Blease: Was let go too early IMO. Kicked some ripper goals, but was a bit too selfish?
Cale Morton: Terrible foot skills and no hardness. Refused to "Go down the f**kin line" according to Neeld's gameplan. 
Gysberts: Not fit enough
Lucas Cook: Brent Moloney made him cry at his first training session
Jack Grimes: Too small for the position he played. Poor disposal as well.
Jimmy Toumpas: Panicky and slow

 

 

[praha 11,254]

Addam Maric; Just didn't work hard enough for a small forward in a bad team.

Tapscott: Worked hard but low skill ceiling stood out in an especially bad team. May have been more successful in today's team.

Bate: Speed and situational awareness.

Blease: Lazy.

Gysberts: Lazy

Toumpas: Deer in headlights.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

If all those players walked into the MFC of today as 18 year olds, and had a good run of injury, I think Tapscott and Grimes would carve out respectable careers.

Grimes never regained his composure after a few head knocks imo.

Tapscott had some good traits but was ultimately slow and undurable.

[Jaded No More 68,976]

Lucas Cook. You can cry or you can laugh. Either way, nothing will bring that early pick back. 

[Dr.D 1,771]

31 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

Gawd, you like to roll around in the muck.  Like one of those weirdo Christian brothers that whips himself (after whipping himself).  Get help man!

Dude, it's quite relevant. It helps you know where the current list is at. I feel that you were a Watts is going to make us pay sort of fan. 

It's not supposed to be a feel good story. But sometimes you need to sift through all the dribble on here where die hard fans talk about every player like they are the next brownlow medalist. At the end of the day, we lost to the saints a few weeks ago and at the end of each season we need to cut players that aren't up to the grade and pick up ones who we think are. 

 

[—coach— 3,496]

Our ability to develop players was below AFL standard

[buck_nekkid 6,089]

23 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

Dude, it's quite relevant. It helps you know where the current list is at. I feel that you were a Watts is going to make us pay sort of fan. 

It's not supposed to be a feel good story. But sometimes you need to sift through all the dribble on here where die hard fans talk about every player like they are the next brownlow medalist. At the end of the day, we lost to the saints a few weeks ago and at the end of each season we need to cut players that aren't up to the grade and pick up ones who we think are. 

 

This thread is due out in either 3 weeks when we are out, or 8 weeks when we are out.  Seems early to be punish ourselves.

Also, I was ambivalent to Watts leaving.  If he went and did well, OK to him.

To give you a more thoughtful answer:

1.  We were terrible at developing talent.  I think there was a mentality in the club that talent should make it.  Now we have systems and people who teach elite standards and (apart from Petty) people dont get games until they are ready.

2.  We weren’t bringing people into a ‘culture’.  Any of these kids would come to the club and would  now be clear on what we were trying to achieve, and the group is strong.  The ‘care and love’ factors are much stronger.  Previously, these guys would come into a vacuum, with us and them in groups, people being selected due to external pressures and no clear idea of what we were setting up for.  Guys like Neeld might be teachers, but they are not leaders.

3.  They each had flaws that were not supported or corrected by the club, the development, the coaches or the culture.

4.  Injury played its part in several of these selections not making it.

5.  Some selections just won’t make it!

I think we now look for different things, set the tone differently and go about the development of players differently to the bad old times.  Some won’t make it.  I love the fact that no player is bigger than the team, and that the team has a clear idea of what it is trying to do and to be.

[DV8 2,271]

2 hours ago, Dr.D said:

Genuinely keen for peoples thoughts on the following players and why they didn't make it as AFL players. Often, as supporters we have rose-coloured goggles with regards to any players we pick up but I'm interested to know years later why the following didn't cut the grade whether it be due to injury or a specific part of their game such as competitiveness, kicking, decision-making, off-field stuff etc. A lot of these guys were high draft picks and their development (or lack of) really dictated where our club went for many many years. So what went wrong. 

Addam Maric: I thought he was going to be the small forward we needed at the time but never really fired a shot. Why?
Tapscott: He was one of my favourite players at the time but only played 48 games. Injury? Speed? 
Bate: Right from his first game I always found his kicking to be awkward but everyone was saying he was our next Pavlich due to his size and playing in the midfield. What happened? Lack of skills, maybe speed?
Strauss: Horrific leg injury amongst others. Elite kicking but never fired a shot at afl level. Competitiveness? 
Blease: had skills and pace to burn but also didn't get out of the gates. What was it? Lack of competitiveness?
Cale Morton: Pick 4. Got it wrong. I think we tried to get fancy with this pick. He was just very weak in the contest I suppose. 
Gysberts: Always found the ball but then before I knew it, he was out of favour and out the door. Skills? 
Lucas Cook: God help us. Nice kick but was slow and looked asleep half of the time at vfl level or even vfl reserves level. 
Jack Grimes: Made it as a co-captain so this may be a tad harsh but what happened to him? His decision making was always a bit iffy and his kicking out of the backline was always quite costly but he tried hard and was a good overhead mark but he would have to almost be the record holder for the quickest captain to delisting time frame. 
Jimmy Toumpas: I was stoked when we got this guy at the draft. He had neat skills, a clever mover around the ground and a bit of personality about him. What was his downfall? Speed? Size? Competitiveness? 


 

my impressions Dr:

Addam Maric: I thought he was going to be the small forward we needed at the time but never really fired a shot. Why? imo he was too self-conscious... introverted. lacked self belief.
Tapscott: He was one of my favourite players at the time but only played 48 games. Injury? Speed? lacked ???
Bate: Right from his first game I always found his kicking to be awkward but everyone was saying he was our next Pavlich due to his size and playing in the midfield. What happened? Lack of skills, maybe speed? lacked speed. didn't have good enough hands to support his slowness, came into a rotten club and suffered from the start with injuries, came into a soft cultured club with poor direction.
Strauss: Horrific leg injury amongst others. Elite kicking but never fired a shot at afl level. Competitiveness? lacked self belief.
Blease: had skills and pace to burn but also didn't get out of the gates. What was it? Lack of competitiveness? lacked self belief and focus.
Cale Morton: Pick 4. Got it wrong. I think we tried to get fancy with this pick. He was just very weak in the contest I suppose. lacked hunger for the contest.
Gysberts: Always found the ball but then before I knew it, he was out of favour and out the door. Skills?  a soft cult
Lucas Cook: God help us. Nice kick but was slow and looked asleep half of the time at vfl level or even vfl reserves level. lacked ???
Jack Grimes: Made it as a co-captain so this may be a tad harsh but what happened to him? His decision making was always a bit iffy and his kicking out of the backline was always quite costly but he tried hard and was a good overhead mark but he would have to almost be the record holder for the quickest captain to delisting time frame. lacked speed. came into a rotten club and suffered from the start with injuries, and for someone with a loving nature, came into a soft cultured club with poor direction.
Jimmy Toumpas: I was stoked when we got this guy at the draft. He had neat skills, a clever mover around the ground and a bit of personality about him. What was his downfall? Speed? Size? Competitiveness? imo he was too self-conscious... introverted. lacked self belief.

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, praha said:

Addam Maric; Just didn't work hard enough for a small forward in a bad team.

Tapscott: Worked hard but low skill ceiling stood out in an especially bad team. May have been more successful in today's team.

Bate: Speed and situational awareness.

Blease: Lazy.

Gysberts: Lazy

Toumpas: Deer in headlights.

_ the Toumpas decision sticks in the throat...  after years of poor decisions at the draft table, recruiting soft players... one after the next, in line.

how many times cam a club continue to make the same mistakes, in the same mannner ????????

Edited July 21, 2018 by DV8

[Diamond_Jim 12,723]

Listening last night to 3AW pregame show. They were discussing what the commentators generally agreed was the basket case known as the Gold Coast Suns. Not sure which of the commentators said that a number of their high draft picks would be leaving this year after failing to cut it at the senior level. It prompted the group of commentators to say that GCS had no structure for bringing in the young players and it was a death wish or similar to be drafted into such a club.

So much was the same at MFC... no structure , no leadership etc etc.

Would the various players have made it.. who knows but they had little chance in our system.

[Little Goffy 14,822]

I'd argue that all these players were drafted too high on the basis of having specific attributes, but lacked 'completeness' - their main strength was their only strength. Like we were recruiting for the second-string x-men.

Possibly why I so love Angus Brayshaw. Is he the outright fastest, the strongest, the best kick, the best mark, the fittest? Nope. But he would each in turn beat every one of the players listed in the opening post in every category except the single feature those players were notable for.

[layzie 34,426]

2 hours ago, —coach— said:

Our ability to develop players was below AFL standard

This.

im sure many of those guys mentioned were seen as solid picks at the time with good attributes. Also to be fair not every player can be developed, problem with us was nearly none of them were successfully developed.

[McQueen 17,867]

2 hours ago, —coach— said:

Our ability to develop players was below AFL standard

Unfortunately, many of the players listed in the OP were indeed subject to some of the most retarded development practices of recent times.

A few of them however were just plain shitty draft picks.

[Sir Why You Little 37,362]

None of them had fire ? in the belly to win

Just pathetic Recruiting

 

[—coach— 3,496]

57 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

None of them had fire ? in the belly to win

Just pathetic Recruiting

 

Old school, I like it ?

[DV8 2,271]

2 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Listening last night to 3AW pregame show. They were discussing what the commentators generally agreed was the basket case known as the Gold Coast Suns. Not sure which of the commentators said that a number of their high draft picks would be leaving this year after failing to cut it at the senior level. It prompted the group of commentators to say that GCS had no structure for bringing in the young players and it was a death wish or similar to be drafted into such a club.

So much was the same at MFC... no structure , no leadership etc etc.

Would the various players have made it.. who knows but they had little chance in our system.

And many said the Giants would be the basket case....  and the Suns would thrive and take all premierships for the next 5 years or so.

One had a Wily old Fox at the helm, and the other were all classy champs that never were.

 

Whilst we were building dynasties;,,, and gloating, after chucking away our hardest workers as NQR's.... and kept on the pretty boys and sweety puss's.

 

We let go our best hardest honest leaders retiring one early;,,,,     kept the mirror finished boys and the next door boy.

We were smart enough that we would hire first time coaches to go hand in hand with all that newbie talent. and Voila!!!!

'''' "oh'  Mr Hart,,,, Watta mess"

 

... funny thing was, we had a chance for that Wily old Fox to come to us, and we Ambushed him through our Spy networks, and hiding in Wheely Bins.

 

Watta mess Mr Hart....      and Watta waste it was, sending zillions of dollars and 10 years of work to the tip, on wheels.

 

.

Edited July 21, 2018 by DV8

[Skuit 10,031]

2 hours ago, DV8 said:

And many said the Giants would be the basket case....  and the Suns would thrive and take all premierships for the next 5 years or so.

One had a Wily old Fox at the helm, and the other were all classy champs that never were.

 

Whilst we were building dynasties;,,, and gloating, after chucking away our hardest workers as NQR's.... and kept on the pretty boys and sweety puss's.

 

We let go our best hardest honest leaders retiring one early;,,,,     kept the mirror finished boys and the next door boy.

We were smart enough that we would hire first time coaches to go hand in hand with all that newbie talent. and Voila!!!!

'''' "oh'  Mr Hart,,,, Watta mess"

 

... funny thing was, we had a chance for that Wily old Fox to come to us, and we Ambushed him through our Spy networks, and hiding in Wheely Bins.

 

Watta mess Mr Hart....      and Watta waste it was, sending zillions of dollars and 10 years of work to the tip, on wheels.

 

.

I like it how you reverted to your old persona when discussing the former regime. Made me feel extra nostalgic.

[Sir Why You Little 37,362]

2 hours ago, DV8 said:

And many said the Giants would be the basket case....  and the Suns would thrive and take all premierships for the next 5 years or so.

One had a Wily old Fox at the helm, and the other were all classy champs that never were.

 

Whilst we were building dynasties;,,, and gloating, after chucking away our hardest workers as NQR's.... and kept on the pretty boys and sweety puss's.

 

We let go our best hardest honest leaders retiring one early;,,,,     kept the mirror finished boys and the next door boy.

We were smart enough that we would hire first time coaches to go hand in hand with all that newbie talent. and Voila!!!!

'''' "oh'  Mr Hart,,,, Watta mess"

 

... funny thing was, we had a chance for that Wily old Fox to come to us, and we Ambushed him through our Spy networks, and hiding in Wheely Bins.

 

Watta mess Mr Hart....      and Watta waste it was, sending zillions of dollars and 10 years of work to the tip, on wheels.

 

.

New Medicine.....

[Ethan Tremblay 31,294]

The game evolved and went past Grimes, he couldn’t evolve with it. 

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

The game evolved and went past Grimes, he couldn’t evolve with it. 

Too simplistic, Grimes was not the player he could have been, say at the hawks.

 

He would have turned out very different, if they developed him.