31 minutes ago, drdrake said:

the same Lewis the centered the ball straight to a St Kilda player.

Yes to a player that fell over for no reason, which allowed stkilda to mark uncontested.

50 minutes ago, timbo said:

Super interesting about the data. Does the FD use data like this to help drive the decision making process?

Pretty sure it was a "pure footy" session on SEN via Glen Luff.  Was some time ago.

Our game analyst, Craig Jennings, would (or should) be all over it Timbo.  I'm not sure anything like that would ever be raised though and doubt the Coaches would put any weight on it even if it was (maybe after the event lol).  Some are more into the game's stats / history and others probably can't stand it and it gets totally ignored.  Then there's some who are probably in between.

And i just checked and we did go from 7 players under 50 games vs Port to 8 vs the Saints.  The Saints had 6. (Power had 5).  That's 2 too many in my book, even against a bottom 4 team with a horrid %.  Never give a sucker an even break or in this case, a slight advantage! (especially when you have alternatives available to choose from eg., Frost instead of Petty).

3 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

That is a great option Mud.  Although i'm not sure Bugg is needed as another medium small or is any better than ANB at this point in terms of what either of them contribute.  Possibly worth trialing over a few weeks though.

Stating the bleeding obvious (and already brought up for weeks) but we are lacking goal kicking crumbers / speed (pressuring opponents / finding space for the receive or on a lead) up forward through the middle of wider grounds.  As a result we are unable to shut down the switch / spread at the wider expanses like the G and put decent pressure on the opp's HBs and speedy mids.  Your Ins'/Outs go some way (at least on paper) to resolving some of the above.

The only tweak i would make to the actual line up is bringing Jones out of a starting mid field role and to the bench.  Replaced with Gus who needs to start in the middle.  Jones has lost half a yard and unable to escape congestion very often now, Gus more evasive through there.  We can no longer afford to keep playing the regular (tried / tested and failed on the wider grounds) 3 meat & potato options in Clarry, Jones & Viney at the same time through the middle.  If we do we will continually get taken apart on the outside spread on the bigger ovals.

Gus , Viney, Clarry ... Viney, Jones, Gus ... Tracc, Clarry, Viney ... even Jones / Clarry & Jeffy as a change up etc but certainly not the three potatoes as standard.

Fritschkrieg goes to the other wing NOT running off the back of square and certainly never played at FB like last week!  Stretch on the other.  We finally have some options out wide with toe and decent finish (Stretch an unknown at this point i realise).  In the case of Fristchkrieg, on both sides of the body!  He won't have the tank to last long though and will need lots of flipping to assist here (below)

Jones/Tracc rotate off the bench through the middle and off both HFFs sharing this between themselves, Melk and Brayshaw (Tracc/Jones, Brayshaw sharing the HF/Mid Field roles between them in a constant rotation when one is resting or on the bench).   Occasionally flipping Fritschkrieg to HF or FP with Tracc / Jeffy to allow Fritschy to rest / maybe impact the scoreboard and throw the opp a different (slightly taller / marking) set up.

Goody needs to adjust big time for speed / class / finish / crumbers both up forward and through mid field as well as a taller speedy general in Frost (at least trial him for 2 to 3 weeks) at CHB as per your option.  If he truly thinks last week's result was mostly as a result of effort (which it might have been to a degree) then he will only tweak a little meaning we are in for a very ugly finish to what promised to be an improvement on last year and a very good chance at playing finals.

This post and the one it quoted can only agree while heartedly 

the time to gift games to give players experience in the ones is over.

go back to Casey and win s flag at VFL level. (If we can) come back bigger better more confident next year.

speed and pressure tackles will win in Darwin. We looked cooked and stuffed late this week in the 3rd. 

Of muddogs side I thought J Smith a little unlucky but I think I agree with the rest

 

go dees

1 hour ago, Yung Blood said:

Fair enough we differ on opinion of his form at VFL level. I do think it was tough bringing in another 19 yr old KPD player. Like I said in another post its easier for someone like Spargo who can get involved in and around the contest with tackling and getting his hands on the ball to build confidence. Due to our lack of pressure poor Harry was left in really vulnerable positions one on one. Like Oscar if our midfield applies the pressure it makes it a lot easier for KPD's to impact the contest. I also agree that the combination of J.Smith/Omac and Petty are just too inexperienced when the game is of high pressure or going against us dramatically.

 

As Vince noted after the game the justification was more that the team needed more height for this contest and Vince admitted he had been down on form. Not that I agreed with this justification but its where the FD justified a 200 plus gamer being dropped for a debutante.

Petty for Vince was always going to be an experimental change YB.  Do you make that change and make an already inexperienced back line so much less experienced?  If you are hell bent on it then surely you go for the height factor but give the nod to someone who has a tad more experience in Frost (58 games).

Were we sitting pretty in the 8 and weren't coming into Saturday's match with two losses on the trot....would i consider chancing Petty?   Maybe.  But he would want to have played a break out block of games at VFL level before i would consider.  I go back to the Hawks as they've been the most successful club for decades now and they rarely blood new guys into the team unless they've spent significant time below (sometimes a few years before a call up) and busting the door down.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2018-07-03/vfl-team-review-round-13

No votes for Frost or Vince with Keilty getting 3.

Edited July 3, 20186 yr by SFebey

3 hours ago, DubDee said:

The main thing that needs changing is a lift in intensity, running and pressure.  Jeffy is not the answer as he has been back in the twos for 8 weeks now and not put in a full shift once.

Frost could be worth a look, once he has worked on his game sense and positioning as he was terrible last time he was in the AFL

I think Spargo and Stretch should certainly come in, at the expense of the players that put in the least on sunday 

DD he may not have earned it this week but Goody has to take Jeffy under his wing (personally) and try and encourage him to find some form (if he hasn't done so already).  He is easily our best pressure small forward inside 50 when he's on as the article below covers.   And even this year he is a smidgen behind Tim Smith for tackle averages inside 50 at No.2.  And we have neither of them in the team at the moment.  He isn't just there for the sneaky ones.  Need to get him firing and back ASAP (among many other tweaks) to make finals.  He is a key missing link to our run home.

Demon is best small forward in the comp: Luff

By SEN a year ago

•  
•  
•  

Champion Data’s Glenn Luff has used a number of key performance indicators to find the most valuable small forward of the 2017 season thus far, and it is a player that almost no-one would’ve guessed.

While talking on SEN’s Pure Footy, Luff has concluded that Jeff Garlett is the most efficient small forward in the AFL at the moment, using measures such as forward half pressure points, groundball gets inside 50, forced turnovers and average goals scored to make his decision.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/05/18/demon-is-best-small-forward-in-the-comp-luff/

 

Edited July 3, 20186 yr by Rusty Nails

I think Milkshake has been let off lightly on this forum. I think he has been imbibing the bath water since that article labelling him the best forward in the comp. His form slump has been a significant contributor to our recent woes.

4 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

I think Milkshake has been let off lightly on this forum. I think he has been imbibing the bath water since that article labelling him the best forward in the comp. His form slump has been a significant contributor to our recent woes.

i don't think he's been the same since he hurt his knee against footscray

he looks to lack the mobility of earlier in the year, trac looks like he's got op, and t mac couldn't run at all against the aints

Freo are sure to play McCarthy. Has a better chance of regaining form against us rather in than the WAFL. Every spud forward now dreams to play against us. We gifted  McCartin his best ever game as we did to Mason Cox. Since QB Cox has only kicked 2 goals from 16 possesions  in his two games after his big bag. Turning spuds into silk purses albeit temporarily.

Edited July 3, 20186 yr by america de cali

2 hours ago, MudDogs Gawn Win.. someday said:

Worst call I've seen. Lewis has supreme kicking and hand skills and sets us up. He is not the problem. 

I don't think Guthrie likes Lewis he's been calling him out for long time.

If Hannan gets another game I'll be amazed.

17 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

I don't think Guthrie likes Lewis he's been calling him out for long time.

If Hannan gets another game I'll be amazed.

 

17 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

I don't think Guthrie likes Lewis he's been calling him out for long time.

If Hannan gets another game I'll be amazed.

Hannan is a lazy footballer

3 minutes ago, samcantstandya said:

 

Hannan is a lazy footballer

I actually disagree... He works hard to apply pressure inside 50. Yeah he's performance on the weekend was very poor but when he's playing well he's a great pressure forward

Just now, JV7 said:

I actually disagree... He works hard to apply pressure inside 50. Yeah he's performance on the weekend was very poor but when he's playing well he's a great pressure forward

I agree.. he runs hard and tackles hard.. problem is our forward line is a disgrace in the way it is setup. Has been for 8+ years. 

2 hours ago, MudDogs Gawn Win.. someday said:

Worst call I've seen. Lewis has supreme kicking and hand skills and sets us up. He is not the problem. 

Have noticed Lewis tends to fade pretty badly in the last quarters of a match.  Prior to that he's usually in our best 5 players (or thereabouts) most weeks.  The writer hasn't watched him closely / often enough and is talking out of his hat.  You drop Lewis you may as well have all 6 backmen bend over a barrel and call in the dog squad.

The FD needs to manage his game time better IMO and maybe this is where the Vince / Lewis combo could have been handled better.  Neither of them are up for 80%+ game time but if they were to share the role a little more off the bench and/or throw Salem in the mix in their role also?

52 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

i don't think he's been the same since he hurt his knee against footscray

he looks to lack the mobility of earlier in the year, trac looks like he's got op, and t mac couldn't run at all against the aints

WW if that were the case why play him?  Spargo would have been brought in surely.  I can't bring myself to watch the replay and didn't notice on the day but someone said he was tagging at one point?  Has dropped away badly since the Crows match.

2 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

WW if that were the case why play him?  

I found myself asking a similar question ....about Tmac.

Some strange things occurring.

14 hours ago, M_9 said:

With no racist intent implied, do DL'ers feel that Jeffy may lift in front of, what I would think, would be a predominently indigineous crowd? 

Having said that, I seem to remember JKH having a 'mare last year or 2016.

It's sad that you even think you may have to apologise for that.

Edited July 3, 20186 yr by ProDee

21 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I found myself asking a similar question ....about Tmac.

Some strange things occurring.

Could say the same about Omac. Has been lost since being concussed against the filth.

Fyfe and Sandi confirmed outs for this week

Edited July 3, 20186 yr by Mickey

2 hours ago, chook fowler said:

I think Milkshake has been let off lightly on this forum. I think he has been imbibing the bath water since that article labelling him the best forward in the comp. His form slump has been a significant contributor to our recent woes.

That article failed to mention he had the best winning ratio in the comp from just 13 one on one contests. Or maybe it did down the bottom, it was just heavily outweighed by the hyperbolic 'Forward line King' headline lol

Edited July 3, 20186 yr by John Demonic

2 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

Have noticed Lewis tends to fade pretty badly in the last quarters of a match.  Prior to that he's usually in our best 5 players (or thereabouts) most weeks.  The writer hasn't watched him closely / often enough and is talking out of his hat.  You drop Lewis you may as well have all 6 backmen bend over a barrel and call in the dog squad.

The FD needs to manage his game time better IMO and maybe this is where the Vince / Lewis combo could have been handled better.  Neither of them are up for 80%+ game time but if they were to share the role a little more off the bench and/or throw Salem in the mix in their role also?

No he doesn’t. All this criticism of Lewis is a joke. He kicked a goal in the last 2 minutes of the game against St Kilda.

Personally I'd to see Bernie bought in for Trac and for him to be played as a forward.  Bernie is both such a smart footballer with good foward instincts and always gives 110%, that I think he could be a bit of a forward line general and help straighten out some of our issues down there.  Also a good way to break up the congestion in our forward line when he can kick them from 50m - 55m out.  We've liked the idea of having experience in our backline with both Lewis and Bernie down there, but I think the forward line could do with the same principle.  Bring back Jeffy in place of Hannan to balance up the pace side of things.

Definitely like Frost for Petty and would consider Pedo for Weid.  Not the Tyson hater like some here, but I could also stomach dropping him for Stretch.   I'm still not convinced by Joel Smith down back, but he would be one I'd keep preserving with as I think he has shown glimpses of being a really good footballer and with more support around him could really flourish.  So much critisim has been leveled at O Mac, but I think it is pretty hard on him when he has been either the only genuine tall or the only 'experienced' one down there since Lever got injured.  Hibberd's form has also been down I feel and for much the same reason, yet he doesn't cop anywhere near the same level of criticism.

I think our present coaching team has developed something of a bad habit of totally crueling players - thinking of Dunn, Frost, Pedersen, Jeffy and to some degree guys like Stretch and JKH.  Sure we want guys to follow coaches orders, play to the team plan and select the players that best fit that plan, but sometimes I really think that can go too far and the coaches need to be a bit more flexible, to fit in more of the natural game of guys like Jeffy within that plan and reconise that perhaps someone like a Frost may always have those 1 or 2 absolute clangers per game, but is probably still better than a first gamer.  From what I recall watching of him, Frost's defensive acts can be first class due to his elite closing speed (some of his diving spoils remind me of Sean Wight at times).  In this context, I find it odd and somewhat hypocritical that Trac seems to be something of a protected species.

Without counting up all the changes beng here, I'm not sure that I'd make them all in one week, but would definitely bring in Bernie, Frost and Jeffy for those mentioned.  I don't think it's panic stations just yet.  Narrow loss to Port on their home deck and St Kilda are a better side than their results have shown for most of the year.  But I really want to see us get back on the winners list and building some better form capable of winning upcoming games against Sydney, GWS and West Coast.  Also really need our players to flick a switch somewhere against the top sides and start grabbing those games by the scruff of the neck.  Thinking primarily of Viney, Jones, Oliver, Hibbard and Jessy (a few others like Gawn and T Mac do it just about every week as it is).

Edited July 3, 20186 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

2 hours ago, Mickey said:

Fyfe and Sandi confirmed outs for this week

don't  yell, but on that basis play Pedersen instead of Gawn in Darwin. (Pity the other VFL ruckmen are so far from ready.)

Gawn is essential for the remaining games. Let's face it if we can't beat Freo with some of our stars being rested we're not going anywhere anyway !!

3 hours ago, President Dee Trump said:

No he doesn’t. All this criticism of Lewis is a joke. He kicked a goal in the last 2 minutes of the game against St Kilda.

I'm talking about the quality of his finish and decision making in the last quarter overall PD.  I'm not saying his whole body of work is ordinary in that period and certainly not a general critic.  He wouldn't be the only player to see his efficiency etc drop away in the last.  I'm not even sure it is vs other quarters TBH but just going by what i see in matches, particularly Sunday and the last few against Port and the Pies. Just think we might see some better results without some of the extra clangers in the last quarters if we manage his game time with some assistance off the bench.

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

don't  yell, but on that basis play Pedersen instead of Gawn in Darwin. (Pity the other VFL ruckmen are so far from ready.)

Gawn is essential for the remaining games. Let's face it if we can't beat Freo with some of our stars being rested we're not going anywhere anyway !!

This is typical Melbourne Fyfe and Sandilands are injured what an easy game this is going to be. Let's rest Gawn. We know what happens when we think like this.