Outs: Jordan Lewis, Dom Tyson, Hannan/Neal-Bullen, Petty

Ins: Oskar Baker, Charles Spargo, Jeff Garlett, Keilty/Frost

In 2018 you cannot play Jordan Lewis off half back or Dom Tyson on the wing. We need running players who can run and carry the ball in those positions. Lewis is too slow to play as a defender and Tyson is too slow to play on the wing. We are getting killed in the spread and this lack of speed is a factor.

Lewis may still have his footy smarts but his legs just cant get him where he needs to be. He can't make it to the contest in time to win the ball, tackle or spoil and he does nor provide any rebound run n carry off half back.

If Tyson is in the 22 then he is in the centre square. If he is not in the centre square then he is playing for Casey.

Tough game for Petty to debut given speed which Saints were able to move ball through midfield. 

We are crying out for a crumbing forward who can out defensive pressure on. Hannan and Neal-Bullen have been ineffectual against better teams.

 

In:

Frost 

Garlett

Vince

 

Out:

Hannan

Tyson 

Petty

 

It's really, really simple. Would also consider dumping ANB for Spargo.

 

Edited July 2, 20186 yr by praha

I'm going to be beat down on here but I thought while he had a extremely average first half I thought Dom showed poise with ball in hand and was one of very few who got us back in the game with his ball use, he didn't blaze away he moved with confidence and made good decisions.

No idea if that means he gets another chance this week. Just saying...

No doubt Petty looked lost lost and overawed, but one of the other glaring problems was that he was outbodied. A flagged weakness from his draft profile was that he wasn't strong in 1:1 contest... and so it was. 'Backing him in' won't change that. Has to go.

Frost and Stretch have to be given another shot, but they're running out of chances.

Smith tries but is a bit limited at the moment.

From my perspective, the ease with which they scored can be heavily attributed to the lack of defensive pressure in our f50 which allowed them to waltz out and hit targets. We were too tall, while we repeatedly missed tackles as well.

Hannan was invisible on the weekend, pressure included. I think its time Garlett comes back, and I'd bring Spargo back as well.

Out: Petty, Smith, Weideman, Hannan, Tyson

In: Frost, Stretch, Spargo, Garlett, Vince

FB: Jetta McDonald Hibberd

B: Lewis Frost Salem

? Harmes Viney Brayshaw

F: Petracca Hogan Fritsch

FF: Garlett McDonald Spargo

Foll: Gawn, Jones, Oliver

Res: Stretch, Melksham, Vince, ANB

EDIT: After reading some comments from the Casey thread I'd be open to switching Frost with Keilty... however I've gone a bit gunshy on unknown backmen after Petty.

Edited July 2, 20186 yr by watchtheeyes

45 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

All fair points, Jaded.

I think the reason we went with Petty was because:

1. - He had been in pretty good form for most of the season.  I think eyebrows would have been raised had he come in on the back of no form whatsoever (reminiscent of Isaac Weetra in Bailey's first season) but this has been building for a while.  Those same people who turned on him in the 'worst selection' thread would have been the same ones suggesting his inclusion in the side in last weeks iteration of this thread.  So it wasn't as if he didn't have form.

2. - It's easier to add a similar player to the side than to change the make up and strategy of the back line as a whole.  The game plan we have was based around Jake Lever and the way he plays.  Losing him meant we had two options, and we have gone down the road of trying to add players to our back half that will fill the hole left by Lever.  Obviously the FD believed that Petty (and, to an extent, Joel Smith) were the players who could play the role designated for them better than Frost or Keilty.  We know what we get with Frost and, for most of the year, he hasn't gotten a look in because he simply can't be trusted to do the basics right.  Petty was played because his game if closest to that of Lever (in my opinion).

Obviously it didn't work against the Saints, although the ease with which the Saints ran the ball forward made his job, and the job of all our backmen, supremely difficult.  I'd like to think the club will back him in to improve and to build that confidence back again this week, but would totally understand if they let him do that at Casey and brought in someone like Frost or Keilty to replace him. 

The solution is to move TMac back to CHB  and leave Hogan as the key forward. Not saying that this is the future, but its the best current scenario. Lets try to pinch a spot in the finals and reload next year. Frost, Keilty, Smith are not the answer. Also need our small forwards, whoever they are, to pressure pressure pressure. As Viney said, just get back to doing the basics, it is an easy fix.

 

8 minutes ago, bobby1554 said:

The solution is to move TMac back to CHB  and leave Hogan as the key forward. Not saying that this is the future, but its the best current scenario. Lets try to pinch a spot in the finals and reload next year. Frost, Keilty, Smith are not the answer. Also need our small forwards, whoever they are, to pressure pressure pressure. As Viney said, just get back to doing the basics, it is an easy fix.

 

Only thing I want to add is that I think Keilty deserves a shot before we say he isn't the answer.  He's a good size, moves well and has been in good form at Casey.  He at least deserves an opportunity before we write him off.

T Mac won't go to CHB.  He's too important to our forward set up, although I acknowledge that something down there has to change in the coming weeks.

7 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Only thing I want to add is that I think Keilty deserves a shot before we say he isn't the answer.  He's a good size, moves well and has been in good form at Casey.  He at least deserves an opportunity before we write him off.

T Mac won't go to CHB.  He's too important to our forward set up, although I acknowledge that something down there has to change in the coming weeks.

If TMac is too important as a forward, why do we start him on the wing?

Unless he has done something wrong like put prawn heads in Goodwin's car, or is injured, it is negligent to not have Spargo in

2 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

If TMac is too important as a forward, why do we start him on the wing?

That's a fair question, buck.  I don't really have an answer for it.

What we need to look at is, if we decide to just go with Hogan and Tom up forward, who is the relief ruck for Gawn?  We all know Tom has done it in the past, but do they want him doing it again?  The reason we have tried all 3 of Pedersen, Weideman and Tim Smith is because they also give Maxy a chop out.  But, if it's now not working, what's the solution?  I'm not sure we have one just yet.

6 hours ago, Nasher said:

I’d be inclined to stick with Petty. Send the message: “we know that wasn’t indicative and you are better than that. Have another shot.” I think that would help his confidence.

That and Frost terrifies me.

...................  but what would be worse for his confidence, demoting him after a very poor game where he looked completely 'at sea', or dropping him after a second poor performance?  Of course I don't know that he will have another 'shocker' if he is selected for next round, but I suspect the odds would be pretty high, after what must have been a demoralising debut experience for the young fella.  I expect the MC will consider this later in the week.  They know him better than we do!

2 minutes ago, Deeoldfart said:

...................  but what would be worse for his confidence, demoting him after a very poor game where he looked completely 'at sea', or dropping him after a second poor performance?  Of course I don't know that he will have another 'shocker' if he is selected for next round, but I suspect the odds would be pretty high, after what must have been a demoralising debut experience for the young fella.  I expect the MC will consider this later in the week.  They know him better than we do!

Im sure they thought they could bring him in and he would get an easy start.  Instead, he was left all at sea by every player in front of him defending woefully, and made to look poor.  His teammates helped make it a shocker of a first game.  Add to that his terrible scrubber mis-kick, and the mark he took that was not a mark (would have been a free and 50 if it was a saints player that had the ball punched away after a mark), and it was crapola in all directions for the kid.  Do we keep him in? If his team-mates make him a promise to make his life easier.  Otherwise, if I was him, I would want to go back to Casey where hard work is the only way to play.

As much as people crucify Frosty and Pedders, we would of been a better team with them.

Tyson can start looking elsewhere to finish his career. Cant run, cant kick.

Pettys non kick that went oob said it all. Not ready. Not even close.

Tracca had his usual plod around off the ball. Its time he got a NASA sized rocket up the rear.

Hannan unsighted again. Shadow of his first year.

Jones was shocking. His hand passes kill us.

I could go on. So many aggrevating players.

 

IN Frosty. Jeffy. Stretch. 

OUT Petty. Hannan. Tyson.

3-4 others could easily be canned, but we need some semblance of a "team".

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 20186 yr by DSP

Just now, DSP said:

As much as people crucify Frosty and Pedders, we would of been a better team with them.

 

How many times have we said this, then we play them and it doesn't happen? Too many to count. 

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

How many times have we said this, then we play them and it doesn't happen? Too many to count. 

At least you know what u are getting. Some good, some bad. They both put in 100%.

 

Couldnt be worse than Petty and Joel Smith. It was a ●●●● show yesterday.

I think our problems with defensive running and connection inside 50 have been exacerbated by some selection and role issues.

I don't think Tyson can play that wing role, he has to play inside mid or not at all.  I think we missed Fritsch in that wing role yesterday.  I would have omitted Tyson, retained Bernie and moved Salem up to the wing with Fritsch.  That gives us more defensive run and much better delivery into F50.

I see Joel Smith covered the most metres and had 9 intercepts which is promising for such an inexperienced player.  I was in favour of bringing Petty in for structure and as Goodwin said , the problems were further up the field.  We need 2 talls in defence, Frost will never be a premiership player, just like Bugg - move on.  Dec Keilty was out the previous week, Petty was the logical choice - I hope we persist with him against Freo.

Defensive running is supposed to be ANB's bread and butter - he's a very honest trier who gets the best out of himself - I admire him but I'm not a fan. 1 tackle. Stretch may be the preferable option - he has great running power and has some good form at Casey which should be rewarded.  It's a tough ask because he has been playing as starting mid at Casey and has been playing well and we'd be asking him to come in as defensive forward.  JKH had the same experience last year and really struggled.

I'm a Hannan fan but he had a shocker and has to go back to Casey.  Spargo, Kent or Garlett are the potential replacements.  Jeffy would be worth a try - 7 tackles at Casey is a promising return.

In: Vince, Stretch, Garlett

Out: Tyson, ANB, Hannan

Earlier in the year we were scoring a lot of goals from close range with players sharing the ball.  Opposition has woken up to this and defends that area strongly.  We need to try scoring from longer range.  

I'm very positive about our prospects - we had a very young and inexperienced side again on Sunday, we'll definitely get there.

The thing we supporters have control of is our own emotions.

12 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

I see Joel Smith covered the most metres and had 9 intercepts which is promising for such an inexperienced player.  I was in favour of bringing Petty in for structure and as Goodwin said , the problems were further up the field.  We need 2 talls in defence, Frost will never be a premiership player, just like Bugg - move on.  Dec Keilty was out the previous week, Petty was the logical choice - I hope we persist with him against Freo.

 

I think Frost's best is pretty good, but he is just wildly inconsistent. He is certainly better than Fletcher Roberts who already has a premiership medallion. IMO we need to play him for the rest of 2018 and hope he hits form at the right time of year.

Watched Kielty on the weekend, was impressed with his composure and probably the only one in the whole side who lowered their eyes and hit targets and may replace Petty. Stretch deserves his chance after 3 straight losses, Tyson should go out. Vince will probably come back in for J Smith. Still think our best side has Garlett in it so either him or Spargo for Hannan who has been poor.

If Weideman stays in can someone give him some belt grip for his buckets.

For me, Tiges are the formula 

TMac back

Out: Hannan, Petty, Smith, Weideman, Lewis (but won't happen)

In: Vince, Jeffy, Billy and Spargo

No one flies for marks in the F50 except for Jesse

Petracca deep, Maxxy, stay out! Melksham at the 50 line, ANB and Harmes further in....

Crumbers, crumb

47 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

For me, Tiges are the formula 

TMac back

Out: Hannan, Petty, Smith, Weideman, Lewis (but won't happen)

In: Vince, Jeffy, Billy and Spargo

No one flies for marks in the F50 except for Jesse

Petracca deep, Maxxy, stay out! Melksham at the 50 line, ANB and Harmes further in....

Crumbers, crumb

Who is second ruck in this team? Can't have Maxy rucking 100% of the game in Darwin it will kill him for the rest of the year.

I would keep the weid in for 2nd ruck duties and spargo/jeffy can crumb all his dropped marks.

I miss Garlett when he's on, but bringing him back without vfl form sends the wrong message.  Basically if you have some runs on the board, just wait out your time in the twos and you'll be back when we are desperate.  Not the message I want from my club.  And there's no case to push from his vfl form.

For what it is worth Baker is not ready yet. I go down to casey and have seen him play some ordinary games. He was great last weekend which is good but needs a whole year at VFL to start learning his trade.

3 minutes ago, Travis16 said:

I miss Garlett when he's on, but bringing him back without vfl form sends the wrong message.  Basically if you have some runs on the board, just wait out your time in the twos and you'll be back when we are desperate.  Not the message I want from my club.  And there's no case to push from his vfl form.

I'd normally agree Trav, but the bloke has been at Casey for a while now.  It's not as if he was dropped 2 weeks ago and is being rushed back.  He's been at Casey for at least two months now.  True, his VFL form isn't great, but sometimes you need to make a change to improve the side and the structures, and Garlett may just be that person.

9 minutes ago, dl4e said:

For what it is worth Baker is not ready yet. I go down to casey and have seen him play some ordinary games. He was great last weekend which is good but needs a whole year at VFL to start learning his trade.

Pretty sure the FD would realise that following Petty's debut.

22 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Posting on this topic hours after a demoralising loss is never a good idea but whatever:

In: Frost, Garlett, Spargo, Stretch

Out: Tyson, ANB, Hannan, Petty

Petty never should have played, so I don't buy the argument that he should get a second crack. Just accept we got it wrong and get him out. I don't like Frost and I doubt I ever will but that change just has to be made.

Tyson is adding nothing to the side, complete waste of a spot. Give Stretch a go on that wing. Another player I don't like but deserves a chance.

I'd then drop ANB and Hannan for Garlett and Spargo. Get some smaller, pacier forwards in. Let Hogan, TMac, Weideman and Fritsch contest in the air, and have Garlett and Spargo at their feet. But both Garlett and Spargo have to work their butts off defensively. Run, chase, tackle, pressure. We're not getting enough of any of that from ANB and Hannan and ANB in particular deserves to be dropped and to have the heat put on him.

 

I agree with these changes. If we play Fritsch on the wing with stretch it gives us movement between the arcs. Spargo and Jeffy to stay on the ground around Hogan and Tmac.