Post Match Discussion: JLT #2 vs St. Kilda

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

- Gee whiz, the Saints are a bit of a rabble. A couple of good players like Steven... but so many of their mature guys are NQRs. Good enough to be playing AFL but not good enough to dominate. Savage/Bruce-like players who can do plenty of good things, but never do it for long enough to make their team do anything important. No Riewoldt means they will struggle for a couple more years yet.

- Tracca-McCartin debate. One is a startling talent every time he gets near it, and even more when he gets it. The other has the physical gifts and talents to carve out a good average career for himself in the mould of Waite. But it's obvious to anyone with eyes who the better player is. Bloody hell Tracca can kick the air out of the thing, can't he?

- Oliver is a beautiful, beautiful kick. Since Watts left, we have Trac who's probably our best kick now... Salem probably next rung down with an aging Lewis and a wonderful user in Hibberd. Then Kent, Garlett and, so far, Fritsch.... I really believe from what little I've seen that Oliver is in the Salem/Lewis/Hibberd class. We just don't get to see it often.

- Say what you like about how the midfield looked, but we miss Viney. Against decent oppo, like the Cats midfield, we will need every heavy in there we can get.

- Hogan is going to be playing a bit of a Tom Lynch (crows) type role, with Tmac kicking all the goals this year. I'm living in the twilight zone. I like it a lot though. Hogan's vision and kicking on both sides is right up there in this squad.

- One big concern was the old plan B. Now I know we're not supposed to use those terms anymore... but I think it's clear who starts in the guts when we need a goal.Our plan A is Oliver, Viney, Jones, Gawn. As soon as we deviate and Oliver gets tried in different spots... suddenly a really average side runs all over us. I know it's pre season, but I wanna see some changes here and there that WORK. Brayshaw forward for example, we tried last year, and it didn't. I'm a touch concerned about our flexibility. It's why I think we might see ANB play 22 games this year and go top ten in the B and F.

- one other gameplan thing. How do you outplay a team for 3 quarters and get 50 less disposals? Saints were switching a lot and we went the torp. But still...

- The 22 is lovely and settled for me now. ANB, Braysh, Fritsch, Tyson all play.... Emergencies are Vince, Hannan and Frost. The only question mark is Stretch who might not be big enough for AFL. Has only really the one thing he does in his game. Can be relied upon to not screw up, but won't win games himself. If Viney and Lewis don't get up, Bugg and Vince get a game. Nice and simple, cut and dried.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Dappa Dan

[jumbo returns 6,737]

1 hour ago, Farmer said:

I think our hero Lever had one touch, and 2 dropped marks fir the third quarter. Correct? Those who want to justify the payments to him plainly don't watch the game

Wowee! Here's the new whipping boy, straight outta left field!

Oscar Mac, you're safe!

[Basher 75]

I am overseas and out of touch. Is there any news on Weideman ?

[Gorgoroth 12,920]

5 hours ago, Farmer said:

How was Lever in the third term? Bloody awful. And dropped an uncontested mark early in the last quarter which lead to a goal. Open your eyes guys!!! Might be ok in the long run but is struggling IMO

Tex... Mate... get over it! He left your shitty club and got the hells outta Adelaide. 

Move on mate, gotta convince Sloane to stay now... good luck!

 

ps, when did they get the interwebz in Adelaide lol

 

pps, lol = laugh out loud.

Shine on you crazy diamond!

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I saw Frost came on but didn’t realise O. McDonald came off, our backline didn’t look as good with Frost I must say (generally a big Frost fan).

[bandicoot 1,395]

7 hours ago, Unleash Hell said:

Nice hit out

Wasn't too worried by the fad out, looks like a few rotations. Frosty appready out of no where in the 2nd qtr.

I personally enjoyed watching the bottom 15 players. Liked the look of Stretch, Fritsch and Wagner. While not going to be super stars, played their roles and did nice things.

My big call for 2018 is - unless Tyson fixes his disposal he'll be playing with Casey for 2018. Harmes, Nibbler, Tmac and Viney come in to that side for me. Bugg has also showed something this pre seaons

11 kicks 8 handballs 6 marks 8 tackles and a goal.

you are delusional if you think he will be dropped 

[bing181 9,193]

One word: Lever.

The team looks so different with him in it.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

40 minutes ago, bandicoot said:

11 kicks 8 handballs 6 marks 8 tackles and a goal.

you are delusional if you think he will be dropped 

Stats aren't the be all end all.

Was his first game for the season, and he wasn't bad at all. But I'm sticking to my call (I accept I could be very wrong)

[jnrmac 20,053]

7 hours ago, Farmer said:

I think our hero Lever had one touch, and 2 dropped marks fir the third quarter. Correct? Those who want to justify the payments to him plainly don't watch the game

Why do you care what he gets paid? Petty minded jealousy by the sound of it. 

[whatwhat say what 22,682]

7 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

- One big concern was the old plan B. Now I know we're not supposed to use those terms anymore... but I think it's clear who starts in the guts when we need a goal.Our plan A is Oliver, Viney, Jones, Gawn. As soon as we deviate and Oliver gets tried in different spots... suddenly a really average side runs all over us. I know it's pre season, but I wanna see some changes here and there that WORK. Brayshaw forward for example, we tried last year, and it didn't. I'm a touch concerned about our flexibility. It's why I think we might see ANB play 22 games this year and go top ten in the B and F.

- one other gameplan thing. How do you outplay a team for 3 quarters and get 50 less disposals? Saints were switching a lot and we went the torp. But still...

- The 22 is lovely and settled for me now. ANB, Braysh, Fritsch, Tyson all play.... Emergencies are Vince, Hannan and Frost. The only question mark is Stretch who might not be big enough for AFL. Has only really the one thing he does in his game. Can be relied upon to not screw up, but won't win games himself. If Viney and Lewis don't get up, Bugg and Vince get a game. Nice and simple, cut and dried.

good post overall, but not sure this is right; jones effectively played outside the entire game and has done that the entire year - i think our plan a starting square combo is gawn, oliver, viney and tyson, with jones becoming a wingman in 2018

in terms of disposal count, i'd rather be efficient as we were than over-possess it like they did

there's no way for mine that vince and hannan don't play - both are such good users of the ball and generally speaking hard as nails; i'm constantly amazed by how tough hannan is for a bloke who looks so slight

[Demonland 71,311]

I think not having OMac proved that we need OMac. I'm a big fan of Frosty but he can't hold down the big man fort alone. 

 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

21 minutes ago, Demonland said:

I think not having OMac proved that we need OMac. I'm a big fan of Frosty but he can't hold down the big man fort alone. 

 

I like Frosty, but you sometimes feel he is one extra step away from disaster.  He did some really good things last night, including a great contested mark running back with the flight and some dash out of the back line, but you feel there is more scope for mistakes with him than there are with Oscar.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Basher said:

I am overseas and out of touch. Is there any news on Weideman ?

Didn't play. He has a power of work breaking into the team as most of the blokes that were in did their jobs. Plus we have Tommy Mc to come back in.

[Gator 17,276]

51 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

i'm constantly amazed by how tough hannan is for a bloke who looks so slight

Hannan has bulked up quite a bit over this summer.

[Jara 1,153]

10 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It’s hard to listen to Terry Wallace for an entire game!

For an entire word.

[Jaded No More 68,867]

I also think the drop off in the 3rd quarter coincided with having Maynard and Salem in the centre bounce for virtually the entire 20 minutes, and Jones was barely sighted (probably rested that quarter). We got well smashed in the centre that quarter which allowed the Saints to control the game. All of a sudden contested ball went in their favour after we dominated in the first half. 

Winning was clearly not the priority, as I am sure if this was a real game, the set up would be very different. 

Also I don't think it's a coincidence that when OMac went off in the second half, that Bruce started bobbing up. Frost is nowhere near as good a defender as OMac, which I know is a bitter pill for some people to swallow, but he is very good and clam under pressure and while Frost does some nice things, he panics easily and his disposal is bog ordinary.

Missing TMac up forward and having Hogan playing high, didn't help our forward 50 entries, especially when we weren't winning clearances in the third so had to rush the entries. 

My biggest disappointment of the night is Hunt. We have to work out how to play him to best expose his speed. I know he is getting heavily tagged now, but we need to get 15 touches a game from him, or else his position is not warranted in the starting 22. 

[Demonland 71,311]

14 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I like Frosty, but you sometimes feel he is one extra step away from disaster.  He did some really good things last night, including a great contested mark running back with the flight and some dash out of the back line, but you feel there is more scope for mistakes with him than there are with Oscar.

I think frosty's strength is as a rebound defender rather than a big man stopper. That mark you mentioned was fantastic.

I do rate him and I wonder whether he and OMac can play in the same team now with Lever. Given that Frost only came on when OMac went down, despite St Kilda's bigger forward setup with McCartin, Bruce and Membrey, leads me to believe that that is not in the coaches plans. 

[PaulRB 6,342]

Pre-season done, both games won well, no injuries and almost the entire best 22-24 up and running...

Couldn’t have asked for more.

Bring on season 2018.

its gonna be a ripper...

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

It has been already stated on here that this was a practice match.  That said, it was not all that long ago that if we were headed at any stage of a match, we would fall apart.  We didn't do that last night and won be over 4 goals.  I'll take that any day of the week.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,799]

9 hours ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

Not mentioned much thus far is Hogan’s game. I thought he was terrific - 21 touches, 7 marks and 2 goals. Effective involvement in inside 50s, some great ball use, massive tank and just good footy smarts. 

He looks confident and happy - will be a  huge factor for us this season rotating through the midfield. I really like him as a roaming CHF, whilst TMac / resting Gawn tall timber up front. 

Thought he had a quite night big marking wise, but to rack up the touches he had and kick a couple of goals was still a good contribution as you say.  Must have had a ton of goal assists - I recall quite a few clever little handballs and kicks to setup other players in the second half.

Would still really like to see him really stamp his authority as a Carey like focal point taking big strong grabs at true CHF.  Perhaps the modern game style will not permit that kind of ball movement, although I note that we are pretty good at moving it cleanlu through the corridor at times.

[jackaub 1,402]

Bugg obviously hasn't practiced goal kicking since last year 

Far too many easy misses again and again.

It will cost him a spot on the list eventually in my opinion.

Misses from 25 metres are unforgivable

[jnrmac 20,053]

3 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Thought he had a quite night big marking wise, but to rack up the touches he had and kick a couple of goals was still a good contribution as you say.  Must have had a ton of goal assists - I recall quite a few clever little handballs and kicks to setup other players in the second half.

Would still really like to see him really stamp his authority as a Carey like focal point taking big strong grabs at true CHF.  Perhaps the modern game style will not permit that kind of ball movement, although I note that we are pretty good at moving it cleanlu through the corridor at times.

He is a very smart footballer. I think his footballing IQ is under-rated...

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

It has been already stated on here that this was a practice match.  That said, it was not all that long ago that if we were headed at any stage of a match, we would fall apart.  We didn't do that last night and won be over 4 goals.  I'll take that any day of the week.

Agreed.

While I would DEFINITELY prefer that we not let the opposition back in period, we also need to look at it from Iva's perspective. It is a sign of increased maturity that we no longer slump to the ground with heads in hands as soon as the opposition gets a run on.

One thing that worries me is that these switch ons and  offs go back as far as the Daniher era. One reason why we need to eradicate it is because I believe it's a long term cultural issue.

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,687]

Did Hogan spend any time in the midfield, particularly at centre bounces/ball ups? If so, how did he go? 

 

[Deemania since 56 6,607]

11 hours ago, DeeZee said:

I think it’s out Maynard, Wagner, Bugg and Pederson for Harmes ANB TMac and ether Viney or Lewis

Both teams, naturally, showed a typical pre-season hit-out with a lack of match practice and communication. MFC were challenged as the Saints settled into the match - but were able to re-group for an effective win. Wagner was impressive, early; Pedersen did some terrific body-on-body work yet was relatively quiet for the remainder of the match; Brayshaw ran himself into some form and tackled superbly all match; we sure did miss Tom McD and ANB, but I also think Harmes' drive, marking and interception was severely missed.

Viney into this side would add 'unbeatable' to all descriptors; his ability to bring other teammates into the game, to tackle, to chase and to distribute the possessions was a significant factor we failed to have on our efforts. Let's hope that his recovery from injury is absolutely complete  and long-term - for these reasons I do not advocate and early-season return as he is too valuable when the going gets really tough.

Oliver is settling into a new tri-lateral role, obviously and showed that he is not far away from excelling in this additional workload. What an asset he is for the team. At the same time, Tyson showed his usual ball-winning abilities but lacks match readiness and smooth disposal at this stage of the year. Similarly for Jetta. Golly, the season, once week-by-week, is going to be very strong and I consider it will also be successful to unprecedented recent levels. Match play will bring so many players to the fore - suppressing under-performances.