Jump to content


Recommended Posts

Posted
  On 17/12/2017 at 08:02, Wiseblood said:

Seriously?  Honestly SWYL, I've never seen someone make such a mountain out of a mole hill.

His strategy has been rebuked?  It was a 2 day boot camp.  Have they rebelled against the 99% of the other training they do?  Have they cracked it over the gameplan?  Did they kick up a fuss about what they needed to do before they returned to training, or what they will do over the Xmas break?

No, they didn't.  They just felt the boot camp wasn't worthwhile, so it was cancelled.

I'll say it again, you LOVE this stuff.  I bet you sit there and rub your hands together at how hard you can go with it.  It's like Xmas has come early for you.

Expand  

I'm with SWYL on this Wise.

Coaches are supported by a raft of professionals - Physios, Sports Doctors, Dieticians, Psychologists etc etc. I presume decisions like a boot camp are not made on some  ad hoc  basis but are part of a planned pre season regime.

The fact that the players, "just felt the boot camp wasn't worthwhile" isn't good enough for me. 

They are very well paid employees of a professional organisation. They need to suck it up and do their job.

Obviously I make this judgement without being in full possession of all the facts but, on the face of it , it is not a good look for our club.

  • Like 6
  • Love 2

Posted (edited)
  On 17/12/2017 at 07:14, Hot as Hell said:

I disagree totally that this is a MFC issue. 

Every club has its own issues and they always have. The Cats had hand bags the Toiges ate their own etc etc. 

A training program that clearly had serious player welfare deficiencies last year has been been abandoned as a result of a lack of support from the playing group and recognition by the FD. 

The players are no less tough and the FD no less demanding. These guys all have a common goal and they know what it us. 

For outsiders including the mainstream media, social media and posters here, it is easy to focus on the decision and lose sight of the Club's resolve. 

I refuse to accept any superficial criticism of the players, the coaches or the footy dept will have any impact on our performance next year. 

In the end, it is performance that writes history. The rest is noise that so easily distracts the restless mob.

 

Expand  

Yes performance writes history, and ours has been shocking for half a century. 

Players telling the coach what they will do...

(Hollywood Boulevard springs to mind)

So Melbourne. I was hoping Roosy and PJ had eradicated such thinking

Edited by Sir Why You Little

Posted
  On 17/12/2017 at 08:59, Bitter but optimistic said:

I'm with SWYL on this Wise.

Coaches are supported by a raft of professionals - Physios, Sports Doctors, Dieticians, Psychologists etc etc. I presume decisions like a boot camp are not made on some  ad hoc  basis but are part of a planned pre season regime.

The fact that the players, "just felt the boot camp wasn't worthwhile" isn't good enough for me. 

They are very well paid employees of a professional organisation. They need to suck it up and do their job.

Obviously I make this judgement without being in full possession of all the facts but, on the face of it , it is not a good look for our club.

Expand  

Even when they themselves know that they got little benefit from the camp last year?

If we're laying the blame anywhere, then I'd lay it at the 'raft of professionals' who should know this stuff.  We got no positive reports out of the camp from last year, other than a Burgan puff piece, which suggests that the benefits were very minimal at best.

The only thing the players should learn from this, is that they should give their feedback sooner.  If they had of communicated this after the camp, then we aren't in this position.

Either way it matters little - the boot camp would have done nothing towards our win-loss ration for 2018 and, therefore, listening to the players and cancelling it is the right way to go.

Posted
  On 17/12/2017 at 08:02, Wiseblood said:

Seriously?  Honestly SWYL, I've never seen someone make such a mountain out of a mole hill.

His strategy has been rebuked?  It was a 2 day boot camp.  Have they rebelled against the 99% of the other training they do?  Have they cracked it over the gameplan?  Did they kick up a fuss about what they needed to do before they returned to training, or what they will do over the Xmas break?

No, they didn't.  They just felt the boot camp wasn't worthwhile, so it was cancelled.

I'll say it again, you LOVE this stuff.  I bet you sit there and rub your hands together at how hard you can go with it.  It's like Xmas has come early for you.

Expand  

You haven’t studied psychology have you...?

A boot camp tests a persons reactions when they are put under severe exterior pressure. 

Our list has no right to say anything is too hard, after the performances of Round 22-23. 

Why? Because they went to water (again) when a large opportunity beckoned. 

If Whorethon, Sydney or Jeelong baulked at a Boot Camp it wouldn’t be news for more than a day. But we the MFC have absolutely no credits in the bank. 

I don’t love this stuff, it makes me [censored] angry that players have over ruled the Senior Coach, who last time i looked was a dam solid player who played in Back to Back Flags. 

The last MFC Player to do that were in 1959-60 which is before most of us were born...

the Senior Coach is in charge last time i checked, anytime the AFLPA needs to be bought in then i consider that a problem that may fester on. 

If you don’t think its important, good for you, but don’t tell me how to percieve this very brittle club when it keeps making mistakes like this. 

 

  • Like 5
  • Love 1
Posted (edited)
  On 16/12/2017 at 06:58, Satyriconhome said:

They are entitled to an opinion, but I dont think there is much more to add, unless you like the same opinion being repeated 15 different ways

Expand  

Hilarious irony!

Concerned that the players are calling the shots on this one, but don't think it's a biggie to be worried about. If Goodwin can turn this into a positive to the players it will quickly go away. His and the fd's reaction over the next 6 weeks will determine the outcome.

However, I'm certainly interested to read the views of all posters, even if I do not always agree with them.

Christmas cheer to all

Edited by Moonshadow
  • Like 1

Posted
  On 17/12/2017 at 09:14, Sir Why You Little said:

You haven’t studied psychology have you...?

A boot camp tests a persons reactions when they are put under severe exterior pressure. 

Our list has no right to say anything is too hard, after the performances of Round 22-23. 

Why? Because they went to water (again) when a large opportunity beckoned. 

 

Expand  

We did the boot camp last year, suffered injuries and it clearly didn't improve our mental capacity under pressure.  

It's a stupid idea and one I'm glad to see we aren't doing.

  • Like 4
Posted
  On 17/12/2017 at 09:59, Wiseblood said:

We did the boot camp last year, suffered injuries and it clearly didn't improve our mental capacity under pressure.  

It's a stupid idea and one I'm glad to see we aren't doing.

Expand  

That is not the point. 

 

 

The point is The The Senior Coach was over ruled by the players and The AFLPA, on a strategy the Senior Coach wanted to again implement  

Wagging the Dog is not a good look at all, particularly to a group of players who are yet to achieve anything.

I am not a huge fan of Boot Camp either, but it should be The Senior Coach who makes the call, if it F$&@s up it is on his head. 

He has been there and achieved BACK TO BACK Flags

Posted
  On 17/12/2017 at 09:07, Wiseblood said:

Even when they themselves know that they got little benefit from the camp last year?

If we're laying the blame anywhere, then I'd lay it at the 'raft of professionals' who should know this stuff.  We got no positive reports out of the camp from last year, other than a Burgan puff piece, which suggests that the benefits were very minimal at best.

The only thing the players should learn from this, is that they should give their feedback sooner.  If they had of communicated this after the camp, then we aren't in this position.

Either way it matters little - the boot camp would have done nothing towards our win-loss ration for 2018 and, therefore, listening to the players and cancelling it is the right way to go.

Expand  

Wise you played football at a reasonable level and I assume participated in these boot camp type training activities. It’s obvious that you don’t rate them and that is coming through in your answers which justifies the players behaviour. Whilst you may not rate this type of training you are avoid the issue which is the senior coach of the MFC did. 


Posted
  On 17/12/2017 at 10:15, Sir Why You Little said:

That is not the point. 

 

 

The point is The The Senior Coach was over ruled by the players and The AFLPA, on a strategy the Senior Coach wanted to again implement  

Wagging the Dog is not a good look at all, particularly to a group of players who are yet to achieve anything.

I am not a huge fan of Boot Camp either, but it should be The Senior Coach who makes the call, if it F$&@s up it is on his head. 

He has been there and achieved BACK TO BACK Flags

Expand  

That doesn't mean he's always right.  In this case, he isn't.

On the flip side, I like the fact that the players want to take control of where they are headed by asking for this not to go ahead.  They want to achieve something and felt that this was not the way to do it.  They gave that feedback and it was cancelled.  Nothing sinister in it at all, and no different to most workplaces.

As I've stated earlier, this is nothing more than a one off, and had the players known about the camp in advance they would have been able to put forward their feedback earlier.

It's a non issue that's getting air time because we're a week out of Xmas and nothing else is happening.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Posted
  On 17/12/2017 at 10:15, Sir Why You Little said:

That is not the point. 

 

 

The point is The The Senior Coach was over ruled by the players and The AFLPA, on a strategy the Senior Coach wanted to again implement  

Wagging the Dog is not a good look at all, particularly to a group of players who are yet to achieve anything.

I am not a huge fan of Boot Camp either, but it should be The Senior Coach who makes the call, if it F$&@s up it is on his head. 

He has been there and achieved BACK TO BACK Flags

Expand  

At the AGM the senior coach stated he listened to the players' concerns and responded to them. It is not an issue of overruling the coach or the FD. It is about a collective group determining the best strategy to achieving collective goals.

We no longer live in the 1950s 60s or 70s where the the authoritative tactics of Smithy, RDB or Hafey could go unchallenged or else. Most of us know those days are behind us for better or worse. 

This has absolutely nothing to do with winning flags. It has to do with establishing minimum performance standards, psychological and physical endurance,  character and cameraderie.

I am not saying at all that l like the modern approach or endorse it. I am simply saying player management in the 21st century is built around communication and respect of each person's role. 

This camp was not a line in the sand, a demarcation of will and won't do. It is or was part if a training program to improve the group.

  • Like 3

Posted (edited)
  On 17/12/2017 at 10:33, Hot as Hell said:

At the AGM the senior coach stated he listened to the players' concerns and responded to them. It is not an issue of overruling the coach or the FD. It is about a collective group determining the best strategy to achieving collective goals.

We no longer live in the 1950s 60s or 70s where the the authoritative tactics of Smithy, RDB or Hafey could go unchallenged or else. Most of us know those days are behind us for better or worse. 

This has absolutely nothing to do with winning flags. It has to do with establishing minimum performance standards, psychological and physical endurance,  character and cameraderie.

I am not saying at all that l like the modern approach or endorse it. I am simply saying player management in the 21st century is built around communication and respect of each person's role. 

This camp was not a line in the sand, a demarcation of will and won't do. It is or was part if a training program to improve the group.

Expand  

If Goodwin had sat down and listened to the players as you say, i doubt the AFLPA would haveen needed as a mediator but the rest of what you say I understand and i don’t altogether disagree with you, but for one point and that is that in 2016 and 2017 this same list of players (give or take) Choked at the final hurdle and missed the finals, so in my opinion they have forsaken the right to usurp the senior coach, why? Because he knows what the ultimate pressure in late September is all about. 

He was there on the MCG IN back to back years, and was a good solid player in both games

MFC players, apart from Lewis have achieved nothing. 

If the MFC choke any games in 2018 you can bet your life we will hear about it

Edited by Sir Why You Little
Posted

I don’t want to be all doom and gloom with outlandish statements but having been in the Military, I have seen this exact type of incidents occur. the dynamics of this current football group are ninth balanced and actions taken over the next few months will determine how they gel together. 

I find group dynamatics especially interesting. 

In the military the soldiers would rebel against ateam leader (usually an officer) usually when they felt they were doing dumb sh^t or stuffing them around. If decision were changed or events changed it create an elephant in the room regarding who actually ran the team.  A similar event would occur later and the team leader who experience the rebelling now attempting the to command at something else. The way the soldiers reacted to his directions would set scene and provide insight to this team’s future. It could mean that everyone forgets about what occurred and everything returns to normal . The most likely outcome is that there is always a later event that brings out the elephant which as lurking in the room out. And how these events are managed provides inidiciations for any problems. 

the coach will be the most aggreivated as it was his authority that was challenged. I just hope he has some good mentors around the club to enable him to lower the angry with it effect the group. maybe guys like pj or Macca may help not like  Mahoney won’t. If he still can bounce things if Roos then that would be a good outcome. Al Clarkton would be anyother people to see for some guidance 

  • Like 2
Posted
  On 17/12/2017 at 10:32, Wiseblood said:

That doesn't mean he's always right.  In this case, he isn't.

 

Expand  

Maybe not. But it aint up to the players to decide that. The senior coach is paid big dollars ? so he wears the consequences

the MFC has killed more coaches than any other club, barring The Aints. 

Not something i am proud of

The players need to win consecutive big games next year to put this issue to bed. 

How often did you tell a teacher at school part of your sylabus was crap and you refused to do it??

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
  On 17/12/2017 at 10:33, Hot as Hell said:

At the AGM the senior coach stated he listened to the players' concerns and responded to them. It is not an issue of overruling the coach or the FD. It is about a collective group determining the best strategy to achieving collective goals.

We no longer live in the 1950s 60s or 70s where the the authoritative tactics of Smithy, RDB or Hafey could go unchallenged or else. Most of us know those days are behind us for better or worse. 

This has absolutely nothing to do with winning flags. It has to do with establishing minimum performance standards, psychological and physical endurance,  character and cameraderie.

I am not saying at all that l like the modern approach or endorse it. I am simply saying player management in the 21st century is built around communication and respect of each person's role. 

This camp was not a line in the sand, a demarcation of will and won't do. It is or was part if a training program to improve the group.

Expand  

Respectfully, what else was he possibly going to say? He sure as hell wasn't going to say he's lost the players and they now run the show (not that I'm saying this is the case). At the club agm he is always going to put calming spin on it.

Edited by Moonshadow
  • Like 1
Posted
  On 17/12/2017 at 10:55, Wolfgang219 said:

 If decision were changed or events changed it create an elephant in the room regarding who actually ran the team.  A similar event would occur later and the team leader who experience the rebelling now attempting the to command at something else. The way the soldiers reacted to his directions would set scene and provide insight to this team’s future. It could mean that everyone forgets about what occurred and everything returns to normal . The most likely outcome is that there is always a later event that brings out the elephant which as lurking in the room out. 

Expand  

Exactly what i am worried about, going forward Wolf

 

  • Like 1

Posted (edited)
  On 17/12/2017 at 10:56, Sir Why You Little said:

Maybe not. But it aint up to the players to decide that. The senior coach is paid big dollars ? so he wears the consequences

the MFC has killed more coaches than any other club, barring The Aints. 

Not something i am proud of

The players need to win consecutive big games next year to put this issue to bed. 

How often did you tell a teacher at school part of your sylabus was crap and you refused to do it??

Expand  

An apt analogy would only be one where the the crap part of the sylabus caused mental injuries that took weeks to recover from?

Edited by Doodle Dee

Posted
  On 17/12/2017 at 19:32, machine11 said:

Holding of on a membership and waiting to see what transpires.

Expand  

Surely this one matter could not rank high in the list of factors one considers in deciding to support the football club? 

None of us like the way this was played out in public, but hopefully  we can move on and more importantly so can the club.  

  • Like 3

Posted

I sent mine back. I told them unless at least one starting 22 player gets hit on the head with a brick by Xmas I won't be able to support such a soft club. Goodwin wrote back asking if it was OK if he got one of his mates in Adelaide to hit Jack Watts with a cricket bat.

I'm thinking it over.

  • Like 6
  • Haha 7
Posted

Not one incident but a pattern in the club, so suddenly the players know better than the coach.... if so then obviously Jones is a weak captain. Do the supporters really have to put up with this every few years... wouldn't happen at Hawthorn  or another club.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    TRAINING: Wednesday 22nd January 2025

    Demonland Trackwatchers were out in force for training at Gosch's Paddock on Wednesday morning for the MFC's School Holidays Open Training Session. DEMONLAND'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS REHAB: TMac, Chandler, McVee, Tholstrup, Brown, Spargo Brown might have passed his fitness test as he’s back out with the main group.  Sparrow not present. Kozzy not present either.  Mini Rehab group has broken off from the match sim (contact) group: Max, Trac, Lever, Fullarton

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    TRAINING: Monday 20th January 2025

    Demonland Trackwatcher Gator attended training out at Casey Fields to bring you the following observations from Preseason Training. GATOR'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS There were 5 in the main rehab group, namely Gawn, Petracca, Fullarton, Woewodin and Lever.  Laurie was running laps by himself, as was Jefferson.  Chandler, as has been reported, had his arm in a sling.  Lindsay did a bit of lap running later on. Some of the ''rehab 5'' participated in non contact drills and b

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    TRAINING: Wednesday 15th January 2025

    There were a number of Demonland Trackwatchers at Gosch's Paddock this morning to bring you their observations from Preseason Training. KEV MARTIN'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS They were going hard at each other. The sims were in two 15 minute blocks. The second block finished a few minutes early, they gathered and had another 7 minutes at it. I think they were asked to compete, as they would play against an opposition. There was plenty of niggle, between some of them. At the end o

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    TRAINING: Monday 13th January 2025

    Better late than never … and quite frankly, there’s very little to report other than that training took place at Casey Fields this morning, that Tracc was there nursing his rib injury and that some photographs are on the club’s social media including this one of Clarrie in Raging Bull stance that gives rise for confidence. The other news is that the club has a new train on player in 185cm Dandenong Stingrays midfielder Noah Hibbins-Hargreaves (love the hyphenated name which is just so fitti

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    TRAINING: Thursday 9th January 2025

    Welcome back to Demonland for those like me who have been on vacation. I’m posting this with some trepidation because of a certain amount of uncertainty surrounding the return of preseason training in 2025 after a flurry of weddings including those of our coach, one of our superstar players and a former premiership champion player and bloke, not to mention the recent mysterious incident that occurred on the Mornington Peninsula.  I believe that the team reassembles this morning at Casey Fie

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    TRAINING: Wednesday 18th December 2024

    It was the final session of 2024 before the Christmas/New Years break and the Demonland Trackwatchers were out in force to bring you the following preseason training observations from Wednesday's session at Gosch's Paddock. DEMONLAND'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS TRAINING: Petracca, Oliver, Melksham, Woewodin, Langdon, Rivers, Billings, Sestan, Viney, Fullarton, Adams, Langford, Lever, Petty, Spargo, Fritsch, Bowey, Laurie, Kozzy, Mentha, George, May, Gawn, Turner Tholstrup, Kentfi

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    TRAINING: Monday 16th December 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers braved the sweltering heat to bring you their Preseason Training observations from Gosch's Paddock on Monday morning. SCOOP JUNIOR'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS I went down today in what were pretty ordinary conditions - hot and windy. When I got there, they were doing repeat simulations of a stoppage on the wing and then moving the ball inside 50. There seemed to be an emphasis on handballing out of the stoppage, usually there were 3 or 4 handballs to

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports 1

    TRAINING: Friday 13th December 2024

    With only a few sessions left before the Christmas break a number of Demonlander Trackwatchers headed down to Gosch's Paddock to bring you their observations from this morning's preseason training session. DEMONLAND'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS PLAYERS IN ATTENDANCE: JVR, Salem, McVee, Petracca, Windsor, Viney, Lever, Spargo, Turner, Gawn, Tholstrup, Oliver, Billings, Langdon, Laurie, Bowey, Melksham, Langford, Lindsay, Jefferson, Howes, McAdam, Rivers, TMac, Adams, Hore, Verrall,

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    TRAINING: Wednesday 11th December 2024

    A few new faces joined our veteran Demonland Trackwatchers on a beautiful morning out at Gosch's Paddock for another Preseason Training Session. BLWNBA'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS I arrived at around 1015 and the squad was already out on the track. The rehab group consisted of XL, McAdam, Melksham, Spargo and Sestan. Lever was also on restricted duties and appeared to be in runners.  The main group was doing end-to-end transition work in a simulated match situation. Ball mov

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

×
×
  • Create New...