Boot Camp 2017 cancelled by Players

[ding 5,126]

25 minutes ago, hells bells said:

G’day boys - no boot camp, get your runners on - 400 x 100’s instead... off you go...

Yep, if they looked at last years camp as being too hard, I hope the coaches absolutely [censored] the you-know-what out of the soft pr1cks at Gosh's.

Like these blokes have the runs on the board to pick and choose what sort of hard work they do.

Soft.................... REALLY soft, but not all that surprising.

Because MFC.

 

 

[daisycutter 30,006]

this is bad with a capital b

doesn't really matter who is technically "right" or "wrong"

a line has been crossed, a trust has been breached, a precedent set

 

 

[spirit of norm smith 16,679]

Yeh really disappointed that boot camp gets missed.

Players will instead work on decision making, kicking skills, handballing to running players and tackling around the waist to lock in the footy.  Things relevant to their core job.

[frankie_d 1,471]

4 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

this is bad with a capital b

doesn't really matter who is technically "right" or "wrong"

a line has been crossed, a trust has been breached, a precedent set

 

 

This. We'll be putting up with chit about Melbourne being soft. Either that's true, or the coaches are not doing a good job with their training regime.

Yuk.

[frankie_d 1,471]

1 minute ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Yeh really disappointed that boot camp gets missed.

Players will instead work on decision making, kicking skills, handballing to running players and tackling around the waist to lock in the footy.  Things relevant to their core job.

I get your point - but if that's a good outcome, why didn't the coaches have that as the original plan.

It seems as if there's a choice  -  either the playing group is soft or the coaches aren't doing a good job with planning and communication.

 

[dieter 3,325]

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Big time deja vu happening forme - players cancelled training with Dean Bailey (ref Jim Stynes book).  Look where that got us!

On any level this does not sit right:

• This camp would have taken weeks/months to schedule and organise.  Were the players not consulted/told about it till last week?  Doesn't sound like two-way communication was happening.  Did the leadership group not sass out the players earlier?  How did it come to this.
• Other clubs walk the Kokada track - now that is gruelling.  Referring to Tyson and Salem last year is irrelevant.  Injuries can happen at any time - just ask Petracca who did his ACL simply going for a mark.  But we go weak at the knees at a few days at a boot camp.  Sheesh!
• We finally ditched the 'bruise free football' label.  But last year we proved the 'mentally weak' label over and over again, right up to round 23.
• Respect lost with 17 other teams
• Club talks about being ruthless.  Given the chance to walk the talk and do something really tough the players back off.

I'm staggered the club allowed the players to call the shots.  So much for Goodwin's tough talk.

My expectations for 2018 have been jolted - backwards.

Get a life. Things changed. When I  grew up in the late 50's and 60's teachers, parents and priests and nuns belted the crap out of you. 

What's playing good football and being able to make a decent decision and hit a target with a pass or a handball got to do with being a super hero uncoordinated AFL player? 

How many other clubs use boot camps run by thugs called ex coppers? 

[Drunkn167 5,093]

Whoo boy nice heated discussion going on here

Before I start telling the whole story let me say that some of you are severely underestimating just how harsh and grueling the camp from last year was

I'm not going to use names or specific numbers for privacy reasons

Now, last Monday Goody told the playing group that the camp would be happening again this year from 18th-20th before breaking for Christmas. Immediately quite a number of players where very much against this for a variety of reasons (including players from the Leadership group), so a group approached the AFLPA to ask how to handle the situation. The MFC staff caught wind of this, so Goodwin gave a presentation last Thursday explaining what they wanted to get from the camp, and explaining that this time they will be bringing a larger amount of medical staff and ensure players were well fed (apparently the food/nutrition last year wasn't the best) Even after this talk, still quite a high number of players were very unhappy about having to do the course again.

So over the weekend the Leadership group and AFLPA met with MFC Coaches/high level staff to discuss the situation, reportedly getting quite feisty at times. The club did have the official final say on the matter, and chose to call the camp off. Monday morning Goodwin gathered all the players and told them the camp was being called off due to the high number of players who raised concerns with it, and he said he wasn't angry but very disappointed because he felt they had given enough information to the players that their health and safety concerns were going to be handled appropriately. However throughout the day the players could tell Goodwin and some other coaches were indeed pretty unhappy with the playing group (when you work with people for long enough you can tell pretty clearly when they are not in the best mood) 

I've got no confirmation of this, but I would assume the three days of training next week before the Christmas break are probably going to  make up for the lack of physical and mental work lost from having cancelled the camp.

I do agree with a number of you that it is a bad look, especially when the club is in the finals drought we find ourselves in.

But I also see where the players are coming from, there is a higher chance of injuries and I sure as s*** wouldn't want to do the camp, and I was in the Army for 5 years.

 

Take from that what you will, its a pretty crappy situation overall.

[rjay 25,424]

1 hour ago, faultydet said:

Our player leadership has not improved one iota it seems.

I would say the opposite, they've shown leadership here.

Goodwin has made some classic first year coaching errors and the camp was one of them.

[dieter 3,325]

1 hour ago, rufus said:

When they sign up with the MFC.

The tail has been wagging the dog here since the back end of Daniher's time...and not only has it got is nowhere but along the way the tail has disgraced the club.

I remember talking to one of Goodwins friends just after he was appointed...they told me he was one of the most passionate and determined people in the industry...i told them he doesn't know what he's getting himself into with this club. How can you be successful as a coach at a club that doesn't want to get its hands dirty?

We are weak and going nowhere. 

You got the wrong picture about why we've gone nowhere, bro.

[frankie_d 1,471]

1 minute ago, rjay said:

I would say the opposite, they've shown leadership here.

Goodwin has made some classic first year coaching errors and the camp was one of them.

Yep - that's one of the two possibilities.

Drunkn's  posts have a pretty fair fact base - and we are facing either coaching staff serious error/miscalculation/poor judgement, or players are soft.

I think some of the "over reaction" (guilty, as charged) is the emotional disappointment of knowing how this is going to play out with supporters, in the context of our weak mental fade out. I still haven't gotten over the last game.

[frankie_d 1,471]

The worst case is that we have Neeld, Mark 2 (no pun intended).

Hope to hell that's not the case

[Cards13 9,117]

7 minutes ago, Drunkn167 said:

Whoo boy nice heated discussion going on here

Before I start telling the whole story let me say that some of you are severely underestimating just how harsh and grueling the camp from last year was

I'm not going to use names or specific numbers for privacy reasons

Now, last Monday Goody told the playing group that the camp would be happening again this year from 18th-20th before breaking for Christmas. Immediately quite a number of players where very much against this for a variety of reasons (including players from the Leadership group), so a group approached the AFLPA to ask how to handle the situation. The MFC staff caught wind of this, so Goodwin gave a presentation last Thursday explaining what they wanted to get from the camp, and explaining that this time they will be bringing a larger amount of medical staff and ensure players were well fed (apparently the food/nutrition last year wasn't the best) Even after this talk, still quite a high number of players were very unhappy about having to do the course again.

So over the weekend the Leadership group and AFLPA met with MFC Coaches/high level staff to discuss the situation, reportedly getting quite feisty at times. The club did have the official final say on the matter, and chose to call the camp off. Monday morning Goodwin gathered all the players and told them the camp was being called off due to the high number of players who raised concerns with it, and he said he wasn't angry but very disappointed because he felt they had given enough information to the players that their health and safety concerns were going to be handled appropriately. However throughout the day the players could tell Goodwin and some other coaches were indeed pretty unhappy with the playing group (when you work with people for long enough you can tell pretty clearly when they are not in the best mood) 

I've got no confirmation of this, but I would assume the three days of training next week before the Christmas break are probably going to  make up for the lack of physical and mental work lost from having cancelled the camp.

I do agree with a number of you that it is a bad look, especially when the club is in the finals drought we find ourselves in.

But I also see where the players are coming from, there is a higher chance of injuries and I sure as s*** wouldn't want to do the camp, and I was in the Army for 5 years.

 

Take from that what you will, its a pretty crappy situation overall.

Thanks D, do appreciate the efforts you go to.

Overall doesn’t have a great feel about it. If we fall over late in the season, fail to run out games at any point, make a final but don’t perform then players “conditioning” comments will not mean much.

[bandicoot 1,395]

2 hours ago, faultydet said:

Need more info

On face value, it paints a terrible picture.

Who the hell are the players to cancel AYTHING?

 

Nope, just read the article. Bloody hell our mob are soft.

Disgraceful that they pulled the Workplace Health and Safety line.

Disgusted.

This is an absolute joke. It shows a clear lack of communication and trust between the players and coaching staff. 

There would have been so much time and effort in arranging this camp only for it to be called off at the last minute.

goodwin doesn’t have the buy in from the players. Serious alarm bells 

[Gator 18,053]

This is being over analysed to extraordinary levels.

[Ethan Tremblay 31,388]

The AFLPA seem to be quite a stain on the game. 

[Deestroy All 14,266]

If the lack of food and nutrition at the camp is true, I wouldn’t go back either. 

These are pro athletes tuning their bodies for a gruelling season. 

Sounds like an amateur operation. 

[Steno 200]

I am hearing that the players went to AFLPA before round 23 this year and asked how many days that had to commit for the year.......

Honestly, Col Sylvia used to be awake for 72hours over the preason, why can’t this playing group miss some sleep?

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

Get a bl00dy grip some of you. This camp caused injuries to players and a few have come to the coach and said  " we are concerned about injuries and as such,don't wana go on the camp..we want to be right for round 1". 

 

Sounds sensible to me. 

 

[Sir Why You Little 37,450]

So has Goodwin lost the playing group?

it’s not a good look, regardless of whether the Boot Camp was a good idea or not. 

Players have told the coach to “get nicked” basically

this is bad. Goodwin has been usurped...

[bandicoot 1,395]

Just now, Leoncelli_36 said:

Get a bl00dy grip some of you. This camp caused injuries to players and a few have come to the coach and said  " we are concerned about injuries and as such,don't wana go on the camp..we want to be right for round 1". 

 

Sounds sensible to me. 

 

So the players are questioning the expertise of the coaching and medical staff? Tail wagging the dog

[deeko 952]

I always wonder the point of these camps as I struggle to see the positives in starving the players, depriving them of sleep then completing rigorous training that has a high likelihood of injury doing ridiculous training regimes that [censored] the players.

How can any of this be positive? It’s not improving skills, aerobic capacity, setting up game plans etc. 

If you’re going to give them a flogging, make it an hour longer skills session, do some extra sprints or a longer run etc. Something that will be beneficial.

I recently did Kokoda mentoring a group of kids who have there challenges. From the exhaustion and minimal food I dropped some serious kgs and struggled for a couple months after. It did nothing for bonding either as we were stuffed and cranky every night. Not sure it helps that much. I think only the first year hawks do it now 

 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

This is a classic Demonland thread.  Usual posters are negative, usual posters are positive and we have a smattering of slightly humorous comments in between.  This will go round and round in circles for weeks over the off season.

Well done everyone!

[Wiseblood 24,637]

11 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

So has Goodwin lost the playing group?

it’s not a good look, regardless of whether the Boot Camp was a good idea or not. 

Players have told the coach to “get nicked” basically

this is bad. Goodwin has been usurped...

Classic SWYL.

Forget the hard yards, effort etc that they have been putting into the real stuff so far this pre-season.  The players want to look after themselves after the camp bombed last year and now all of a sudden Goodwin has potentially 'lost the playing group.'

Merry Christmas one and all!

[KLV 1,768]

I was at the agm tonight where president, ceo and coach all responded to a question about why the camp was canceled. 

I was satisfied with the explanation, and am surprised at the amount of angst it is creating here.

PJ’s comments-  the purpose of camps like this is to fast track resilience, mfc has put concentrated effort into this area in recent years and to cancel was not going to mess with overall aim of preseason

- injuries, and loss of conditioning, were seen as significant negatives resulting from last year’s camp

- coaches don’t treat players as children but address their concerns seriously.

PJ is a skilled communicator and no doubt has spun this explanation to minimise the degree of heated debate and bruised egos experienced, to arrive at the decision.

But really,  in context of all the information conveyed to the agm, this issue is a non-issue 

 

[praha 11,267]

I don't care that it was cancelled or the reason for it, but again i think this is just amateur hour from the media department. They don't owe the fans or media any reasoning for it. I don't think many people would have even realised if nothing was said. At the most all they had to say was "We've cancelled the camp to focus on a different training approach". Even that is too much because it creates questions. 

Had nothing been said, would people have even cared? Or realised?

Now we're once again the subject of media and fan ridicule. 

Regardless of the legitimacy of the reasoning behind it, and it does some like a reasonable decision to make, you simply can't ignore that to the general football world, it doesn't look good.

The club's PR and media department is just full of nuffies. This is bad PR. And we wonder why we struggle for sponsors.