Not a re-build just get a bit more quality.

Richmond could've been Melbourne, l can't even watch it today.

Weve got to go hard for Lever & Gaff.

Heres who l think we need to consider, we can't think that our current list will be good enough, we've missed a chance in 2017, can't afford to in 2018

WATTS - had his chances like the guy but sick of talking about him 1 good season in 9 time to trade

SALEM - again consistency & fitness a huge concern, maybe for the right trade

TYSON - maybe we have a few to many like him maybe for the right trade.

KENT - so inconsistent & injury prone

STRETCH - what does he give us?

JKH - Hasn't stepped up from VFL to AFL

WAGNER - to many half back flankers!!

Thoughts

 

I'm in the keep Watts camp, which is bizarre as I've always been a massive critic. Reliable goal kickers are worth their weight in gold. We need to get the best forward line coach in the business to take his game to the next level.

3 hours ago, Billy said:

Weve got to go hard for Lever & Gaff. - We are

WATTS - had his chances like the guy but sick of talking about him 1 good season in 9 time to trade - Goody doesn't seem a fan. (sorta) free to a good home

SALEM - again consistency & fitness a huge concern, maybe for the right trade - No

TYSON - maybe we have a few to many like him maybe for the right trade. - No

KENT - so inconsistent & injury prone -  Only WA clubs would be interested, but could be part of a package for Gaff

STRETCH - what does he give us? - He's still a kid, and still learning. 2 more years before I'd make a call on him

JKH - Hasn't stepped up from VFL to AFL - wouldn't get more than pick 70. Delist of persist.

WAGNER - to many half back flankers!! - wouldn't get anything. Delist or persist.

Thoughts

 

Seems more a fire sale than aggressive trading. Lever and / or Gaff will get done with what we have, or possibly with Watts or Kent in the deal, and both of those seem to be on the table already.

This [censored] sucks

5 hours ago, leucopogon said:

I'm in the keep Watts camp, which is bizarre as I've always been a massive critic. Reliable goal kickers are worth their weight in gold. We need to get the best forward line coach in the business to take his game to the next level.

It won't make a difference. He's ten years into his career now. Are you watching the game today? PRESSURE PRESSURE PRESSURE. I can't fathom how anyone could be in the Watts camp. His elite kick is worthless. On Grand Final he will be absolutely owned by someone who wants it more. We need to stop with this crap of keep fan favourites who have "elite skills". You can't have elite skills if you don't chase and tackle. They're non-negotiables in this game. Ffs!

Last year it was speed, this year pressure.  I wonder what next year will be the clarion call?

Watching today was close to the most agonising game to watch without the D's playing. We aren't far off what they are but need to  be stay firm  and make the tough calls including trading Watts etc to  improve our list to compete get there

If the reports are true and Watts is looking to go to port, what can they offer us? Picks, players.

1 minute ago, deebug said:

If the reports are true and Watts is looking to go to port, what can they offer us? Picks, players.

David Koch

Just now, chook fowler said:

David Koch

Shut the doors!

I think Goody started this week with Watts!

 

BILLY, I would keep Salem but agree with the rest plus Kennedy.

It’ll be interesting to see what team's cherry pick from Richmond’s blueprint this year. I suspect the modern press has been shown to be more effective with a mosquito fleet, rather than being more reliant on KPFs to take marks for you. But it's hard to know whether this is simply because Adelaide was so poor on the most important day or whether the Richmond game style is more sustainable with a smaller team. The Richmond game plan is certainly incredibly simple, but executed in impressive fashion for much of this year.

What is perhaps the most interesting question is whether teams decide to focus on combating the modern press or whether they try and change the game by implementing another plan that renders the press inoperable. If it’s to emulate the Richmond mosquito fleet, in an MFC context, I don’t think we can play the three talls of Tom McDonald, Pedersen and Hogan in the same forward line. But given McDonald’s versatility, I think it’d be Pedersen that would miss out and we'd go with two talls (no Watts). So if we decide to emulate the Richmond press, we’ll play multiple smalls (Garlett, Johnstone?, Kent?, JKH?) in the one side to support Hogan, McDonald and Petracca. Tyson may well be in trouble here given his lack of footspeed when not playing in the middle. 

I don’t know what the alternative is because I’m not on our coaching staff, but I suspect guys like Jennings will have watched very carefully today and seen how the Richmond pressure stood up on the big day, and we’ll look to cherry pick what we liked out of it. I think our press worked against Richmond for much of the match until our injuries took their toll, so we may well back our own system to beat them and merely tweak our own system and add Lever to our defensive set up.

What is clear though is that we are a slow football team and we need more pace. Particularly, forward of centre. We’ve addressed much of our lack of pace off half back with Frost, Hunt and Hibberd, but outside of Garlett, who else do we have that’s competitive and quick? Don’t say Dean Kent. And JKH is too slow. Johnstone is too young and probably hasn’t shown enough.

Who we decide to target on the recruiting front this off season, will be truly fascinating and will suggest a lot about where our FD thinks our list is at, as well as what they think we need to win games next year.

In terms of trading aggressively, outside of Lever, most of us have said for a while we need a player of Gaff's abilities. I'd also target some quick, mercurial smalls that can implement the press, help out Hogan and McDonald at ground level and offer dangerous, zippy forward options to compliment Garlett.

I'd put Watts up for trade in an attempt to get Lever, Gaff and a natural small forward like Rioli. The price is Watts, our 2017 first rounder and our 2018 first rounder. Given the shallowness of our midfield and our need for reinforcements in this area of the ground, if we put Tyson or Salem up for trade, that tells me we're changing direction slightly in a list strategy sense and probably going with a blueprint closer to Richmond's.

It all comes down to where our FD sees the game going in the next 3-5 years. That's where the real skill lies. Being able to predict the evolution of the game or changing it yourself by revolutionising the game with a new game style (ie the forward press, Clarko's cluster etc). Let's hope Goodwin and co are up to it and I'd agree the time is now to trade aggressively.

6 hours ago, deebug said:

If the reports are true and Watts is looking to go to port, what can they offer us? Picks, players.

Let's just say these rumours are true and we could convince Wines to come back to Victoria, would people do Watts and our 2017 or 2018 first rounder for Wines? To me it's not a lay down misere as Wines offers us something that we already have, but there is no doubting his quality. 

Is a midfield of Viney, Wines, Oliver and Petracca better than a midfield of Viney, Gaff, Oliver and Petracca? You suspect the shear ball winning ability of the former would be too strong for most midfields, so I'd probably go with the less balanced former group.

We need more small forwards/midfielders judging by the last 2 years crows were too top heavy yesterday and we are with Hogan, Watts and Pedo/ Weids.

No doubt Goodwin is working on the same principles as Hardwick 

Pressure Acts. 

We were number 1 for pressure acts early in the year, then fell away. 

We need Strength and Pace, with the ability to pass the ball with some precision. 

1 hour ago, Win4theAges said:

We need more small forwards/midfielders judging by the last 2 years crows were too top heavy yesterday and we are with Hogan, Watts and Pedo/ Weids.

Agreed 110%, more small menacing pressure forwards and another classy mid is a must plus Jake Lever.

Hopefully a much healthier list and a healthier return of key players and Vandenberg/Brayshaw will help us next season.

18 hours ago, A F said:

Is a midfield of Viney, Wines, Oliver and Petracca  . . .

What was the question again? I'm having trouble concentrating.

Would anyone here offer Watts AND Salem for WINES??

33 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Would anyone here offer Watts AND Salem for WINES??

Yes

36 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Would anyone here offer Watts AND Salem for WINES??

Absolutely. 

ALRIGHT offer both and if Pt Adelaide um and ar then throw in a late draft pick as well! 

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

ALRIGHT offer both and if Pt Adelaide um and ar then throw in a late draft pick as well! 

A whole late pick?

We need to look at how the best sides have worked trades.  They don't just trade for the sake of being involved.  They target specific players who meet their needs and then throw everything they have at them to get the trade done.  Hawthorn and Geelong very rarely miss out when they set their sights on a target.  I agree we need to be aggressive and ruthless, but with a purpose. 

5 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

We need to look at how the best sides have worked trades.  They don't just trade for the sake of being involved.  They target specific players who meet their needs and then throw everything they have at them to get the trade done.  Hawthorn and Geelong very rarely miss out when they set their sights on a target.  I agree we need to be aggressive and ruthless, but with a purpose. 

You mean like Leaver - and by aggressive and ruthless do you mean trading a popular player (at least with the fans - not so much with the FD apparently)?