On 04/10/2017 at 8:53 PM, Demon Disciple said:

For all of Watts' talent, he doesn't influence games anywhere near as much as he should.

Clearly our FD have had enough and their strong stance is a clear message sent to the rest of the playing group as well, 'talent alone is not good enough, you need to perform'.

We bemoan the lack of leadership within the footy group, yet when the FD start expecting higher standards with a ruthless aggression, we cry foul?

Clearly some on here would rather wallow in mediocrity for a little longer. If Jack Watts being pushed out is a result of the team finally being held to account for their inconsistent performances, then that's fine by me. It's about time the players' are fully held responsible for their actions.

Yeah well it's the right message to expect higher standards but why deliver it through one of players who can perform while leaving many others who are just as inconsistent. Watts does not lose every match on his own in fact he has often performed when others havent 

9 hours ago, chook fowler said:

Reminds me a bit of the public bollocking Malcolm Blight gave his ruckman Pitman. As I understand it he kept playing, and in a premiership side.

And I believe that was Goodwin's first year at the Crows. 

4 hours ago, dpositive said:

Watts does not lose every match on his own in fact he has often performed when others havent 

This isn't about what's going on on-field.

I am getting weary of this. How soon will we know, do people think? I wake up each morning in London and go straight for the AFL site on the iPhone, half expecting some headline like  "Watts signs for Pies!" .  That would ruin the cornflakes, big time.

9 hours ago, mo64 said:

Now that's a furphy. The fact that so many have referred back to 1 game (2017 QB vs average side) as their sole reference as a match winner, suggests that he rarely does it. Even on that day, he wasn't BOG.

Kind of reminds me of the Spencer fans who kept referring back to the game against Geelong. Spencer was at the club for 10 seasons, and had 1 memorable game.

 

 

Paul Roos said as much at last year's B&F. This was in reference to Watts' influence on games prior to 2017. It's also possible to be a match winner and not BOG - there are many instances in all football codes of this.

And I fail to see any similarities between this situation and Spencer's. They're plainly very different.

 

 

49 minutes ago, London Demon said:

I am getting weary of this. How soon will we know, do people think? I wake up each morning in London and go straight for the AFL site on the iPhone, half expecting some headline like  "Watts signs for Pies!" .  That would ruin the cornflakes, big time.

I'm more surprised people still eat cornflakes 

On 03/10/2017 at 3:39 PM, Ron Burgundy said:

What's the issue with him having his own business?

All professional clubs encourage their players to study or focus on building a business, rather than playing X Box and gambling their lives away in their spare time.

 

You obviously haven't seen his range of swimwear ... it's cactus

Edited October 5, 20178 yr by Demons1858

And people think the club threw Jack Watts under a bus ...

“LoGiudice: There are different skill-sets that we believe are required. There are certain aspects of leadership we believe Trigg didn't have.”

18 hours ago, JackDeMan said:

I am really disappointed that people on this forum are sticking the boots into Simon Goodwin because he has taken a stand against Jack Watts. Just going by games won this year, the team that Goodwin has ultimate responsibility for has improved by 20% (12 wins this year - 10 wins last year) - not bad for a first time senior coach in his first year.

I guess I'm one of those questioning Goodwin.

Firstly his record doesn't yet count, he has a young list of extremely talented players handed over from a highly respected coach. He wasn't handed a basket-case. Going backwards was out of the question.

More so, I don't see Goodwin 'taking a stand' is smart coaching. I agree with Roos: "you can't always harp on a players weakness, some players improve when you encourage their strengths".

Goodwin has his issues with Jack "not jumping at the ball" dropping him to develop his contested game. Jones is a contested machine and doesn't understand how it's not in Jack's instinct. But, again Roos, "you can't have a team of all Viney's".

Goodwin might become a great coach. Watts is gone. I suspect this will prove a "mistake" (Roos). I'm now interested to see if Goodwin learns his own lesson. Jack will be fine.

32 minutes ago, bing181 said:

And people think the club threw Jack Watts under a bus ...

“LoGiudice: There are different skill-sets that we believe are required. There are certain aspects of leadership we believe Trigg didn't have.”

I bet Stephen won't get this bloke to be a referee...

1 hour ago, Demons1858 said:

You obviously haven't seen his range of swimwear ... it's cactus

I actually like his shorts.

That said, I'm not remotely impressed by the reports of him spending time in Byron following his injury to attend to his business, and in doing so significantly extending his rehab period. Business, study etc should supplement a player's time at a club, not impair it.

 

40 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I actually like his shorts.

That said, I'm not remotely impressed by the reports of him spending time in Byron following his injury to attend to his business, and in doing so significantly extending his rehab period. Business, study etc should supplement a player's time at a club, not impair it.

 

Genuine question: Is there any basis for this claim or is it a speculation by the anti-Watts brigade that gets accepted as fact?

I think the Coach's comments about Jack's preparation and professionalism are leading some to assume (correctly in my view) that Jack Watts is a long way behind Jack Viney in his preparation, rehab and intensity, and that for a senior player it's poor. 

Edited October 5, 20178 yr by PaulRB

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I actually like his shorts.

That said, I'm not remotely impressed by the reports of him spending time in Byron following his injury to attend to his business, and in doing so significantly extending his rehab period. Business, study etc should supplement a player's time at a club, not impair it.

 

25 minutes ago, sue said:

Genuine question: Is there any basis for this claim or is it a speculation by the anti-Watts brigade that gets accepted as fact?

I think RonB is picking up on some strange extrapolation on DL:

trip to Byron + (reported poor preparation = likes to go out) = extension of his rehab. 

Looks faulty logic to me. 

Firstly, the club would have agreed to the trip.

And, there has been nothing posted that he has a drink while injured...pure speculation. Whats more, Misson always says 1 to 2 weeks and it nearly always turns into 4 to 6.  That is a running joke on our Injury Threads. 

Even tho' he is gone and there have obviously been issues, I'm happy to give him the benefit of the doubt on stuff that is 'reported' on DL which has no outside reference.

Edited October 5, 20178 yr by Lucifer's Hero

13 hours ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

I think we are discussing different matters 'vibes.

Ruthless - we need more of it.

However, the Watts situation is looking plain silly.

Here is a 170 game player and poster boy, and for all his acknowledged faults, still , on his day a matchwinner publicly proclaiming his love and loyalty, while the club  is apparently trying to show him the door. 

This with the background of a team that specializes in shitty disposal and is hungry for goalkickers - Jack's two strengths.

At the same time we are bringing in a defender on megabucks.

Is this the publicity a "destination" club needs?

Yep  Agree! Look at the back page in the HUN 3 players wanting to go to Essendrug! apart from Stringer why aren't we a destination club??

Edited October 5, 20178 yr by picket fence

24 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 

I think RonB is picking up on some strange extrapolation on DL:

trip to Byron + (reported poor preparation = likes to go out) = extension of his rehab. 

Looks faulty logic to me. 

Firstly, the club would have agreed to the trip.

And, there has been nothing posted that he has a drink while injured...pure speculation. Whats more, Misson always says 1 to 2 weeks and it nearly always turns into 4 to 6.  That is a running joke on our Injury Threads. 

Even tho' he is gone and there have obviously been issues, I'm happy to give him the benefit of the doubt on stuff that is 'reported' on DL which has no outside reference.

Genuine question; what do you think the coach, list manager and captains mean when they say poor preparation and their comments re: Watts?

21 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Yep  Agree! Look at the back page in the HUN 3 players wanting to go to Essendrug! apart from Stringer why aren't we a destination club??

Could have been worse picket we could have missed out on Lever too. 

Unfortunately we as a club are taking baby steps and it is frustrating cause other teams always seem to go past us. 

Edited October 5, 20178 yr by DemonOX

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Genuine question; what do you think the coach, list manager and captains mean when they say poor preparation and their comments re: Watts?

Genuine question:

Why is this whole scenario played out in a public forum to humiliate and 'devalue' a player that is clearly not wanted?

I do see a correlation between your username and Wattsy's relationship with the bosses at the MFC

I'm told there's an anti Watts brigade.  For me it's more a pro MFC brigade, as evidenced by my username. 

I'm drawn to Paul Roos' final speech at the MFC during the 2016 B&F.  As he wound up he delivered a message to the players.  He said, "Decide to be great.  It's a decision and doesn't happen by accident."  He went on to say that "it doesn't start on November 5 at Goody's first training session, it starts tonight".

During last off-season Jack made decisions, but they didn't echo Roos' sentiments.  He never decided to be great.

Edited October 5, 20178 yr by ProDee

4 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Genuine question:

Why is this whole scenario played out in a public forum to humiliate and 'devalue' a player that is clearly not wanted?

Is the whole scenario being played out on a public forum?

Is the player clearly not wanted - or is that your opinion? 

Is it possible that secrets are hard to keep this time of year and its better to be open and upfront than let the rumour mongers have control? 

 

 

4 minutes ago, DaveyDee said:

Is the whole scenario being played out on a public forum?

Is the player clearly not wanted - or is that your opinion? 

Is it possible that secrets are hard to keep this time of year and its better to be open and upfront than let the rumour mongers have control? 

 

 

Keep it inhouse

Don't reveal closing interviews and feedback to players to Ch 7, RSN, Ch 9, AFL Media, etc etc

Edited October 5, 20178 yr by jumbo returns

37 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Genuine question; what do you think the coach, list manager and captains mean when they say poor preparation and their comments re: Watts?

I take 'poor preparation' to mean that he doesn't train well/strongly or do all the post game recovery as well as he should eg ice baths, phsio, massage, meetings etc.  And these set poor poor standards for our young players. 

Jones referred to 'poor behaviours when away from the club'.  I assume he means diet, nutrition, social habits.  Posters have talked about seeing Jack at clubs but no-one says if it is the night before training or before a game.  It sounds like Jones expects players to be committed 24/7 to football like he is but few will be 24/7 footballers.  I have mixed feelings on this.  Would love all our players to be committed 24/7 like Jones and Viney but they are all entitled to have a social life. 

Nonetheless, I think they are legitimate comments by the club but can't help but think that Jack isn't the only one guilty of them.

But, I don't assume the club means he has alcohol while on rehab or while in Byron or that those resulted in extra games missed due to injury, which was the crux of Ron B's post and sue's question.   

We can all go back and forth on this but interpretation of comments is related to our expectations of Jack.  At the end of the day the one thing we can be sure of is there has been a breakdown in his relationship with the club and it seems irretrievable. When that happens in an organisation all sorts of things get focused on, some small, some big.  We have no way of knowing which is which, nor should we know.

Now 'It is what it is' and we move on.

Edited October 6, 20178 yr by Lucifer's Hero

23 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I'm told there's an anti Watts brigade.  For me it's more a pro MFC brigade, as evidenced by my username.

While many of those who think the club is better off without Watts can be seen as pro MFC, there are certainly some to whom the label of anti-Watts is more appropriate.  Eg. those who apply standards to him they don't apply to other under-performing players and act as if every speculation about his behaviour is true without any evidence just because it fits their mindset about him.

3 hours ago, SFebey said:

I'm more surprised people still eat cornflakes 

what a slap in the face to the great cornflake. 

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Yep  Agree! Look at the back page in the HUN 3 players wanting to go to Essendrug! apart from Stringer why aren't we a destination club??

I think you may be overrating the three players Essendon are chasing (and they still need to get the three trades done).

I'd take Lever over any of those three, or even a combination.