32 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Really must get around to clearing out the censored word list one of these days.

Can we use the word f l o g? I think most agree its not really offensive and is a versatile word in footy-speak!

Just now, Jumping Jack Clennett said:

Can someone tell me if the following two stats are correct?

I think I heard Glen Luff stating these stats on  "Pure Footy", but I might have misinterpreted.

1/ Jack Watts is no. 4 in the AFL for contested pressure in the forward line.(!!!)

2/Jack Watts is no. 2 in the AFL for one on one contests.

Surely they can't be true, but he's usually spot on, so I think I heard it wrongly.

Am I correct in my recollection, that in the first third of the season, before our injuries, Melbourne was considered the no. 1 pressure team in the AFL? Watts was part of that side.

Garlett was the main reason for that last paragraph. Watts did the pressure more in the three games after his injury than he did in the first half of the season - but part of that I think is that he didn't have to - the whole fwd line was a frenzy in the first three months.

Dont know about the other stats, call up champion data...

Lever finishes outside top 10 so we think his value is lessened with regards to any trade.

Watts finishes outside top 20 but people think he's still going to secure us decent trade value?

Can't have that cake and eat it too in this instance.

We're still talking about 'potential' otherwise.

The speeches were telling.

Viney mentioned Oliver was the hardest trainer at the club and lo and behold he wins the B&F.

Lewis spoke of begrudgingly doing "extras" as he was thanking some of the coaching staff.

Does anyone here thinks Watts trains hard or does all he can to be the best he can be ?

But still the fawning and excuses will continue. 

I have no doubt the club will settle for nothing less than a carton of Doritos ( extra cheese, 'the good stuff' ) , two slabs of Kirin ( or suitably similar top shelf ) , three french hens  or  a Family box from Reddy Rooter.

I'm only half being flippant. Anything that remotely looks like a trade will get this done because that's what the club wants now, a trade done. It only has this trade period to do it and only a smallish number of suitors.

My bet...any second round pick will get this over the line.

36 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Who's not telling the correct story? How could Watts have been 6th after 14 rounds when Jetta was 5th on 205, and Watts finished on 172 after 23 rounds?

He supposedly had a great start to the year, yet was 11th after 8 rounds.

Has someone actually got any proof as to where Watts sat after 14 rounds?

According to big screen he was 6th on 166 votes (for memory - may have been 164) after 14 rounds 

 

5 minutes ago, ProDee said:

The speeches were telling.

Viney mentioned Oliver was the hardest trainer at the club and lo and behold he wins the B&F.

Lewis spoke of begrudgingly doing "extras" as he was thanking some of the coaching staff.

Does anyone here thinks Watts trains hard or does all he can to be the best he can be ?

But still the fawning and excuses will continue. 

The irony is that if he does leave, he most likely will start to train harder and do those "extras" and finally become the player we always hoped he would be...

 

There was little before, but now there is no doubt he is out the door.

It's now all about how much we will get for him in a trade, which I get the feeling we are all going to be disappointed about when it all goes down.

9 minutes ago, ProDee said:

The speeches were telling.

Viney mentioned Oliver was the hardest trainer at the club and lo and behold he wins the B&F.

Lewis spoke of begrudgingly doing "extras" as he was thanking some of the coaching staff.

Does anyone here thinks Watts trains hard or does all he can to be the best he can be ?

But still the fawning and excuses will continue. 

More telling was the chorus of supporters cheers for Jack. Blinded by his 'great guy' status over his years of mediocrity.

23 minutes ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

Can we use the word f l o g? I think most agree its not really offensive and is a versatile word in footy-speak!

It found its way on to the list due to a few of your fellow posters flinging it at each other left right and centre.  It really was giving admin the irrits and censoring it definitely blunted the behaviour of it, and required less administrative intervention than banning people.

I do agree that we should be able to flog dead horses on here though.

24 minutes ago, Grand New Flag said:

Watts is 100% gone. 

It has come to my attention that Watts has been shown the door with the full knowledge and approval of the leadership group...... people who love Jack and are close friends with Jack.  The leadership group think the team will be better without him and also think its best for Jack.

The final straw (as previously discussed) was the trip to Byron and his failure to do what ever he could to get back to full fitness as fast as possible.  It angered many players and coaches. It sends the wrong message to the playing group.

I am a Watts fan and this devastates me...... he is gone.

On the flip side of the coin, I'm very impressed with how invested in this club the leadership group are to have endorsed this decision despite their close personal associations and affection for Watts.

I too am a Jack Watts fan. And I too remain very disappointed about this.

 

On 9 October 2017 at 7:10 AM, Sir Why You Little said:

No. This whole thing is the fault of Jack Watts. 

After 9 years he never gave 100% application

i wonder how many warnings he was given in that time. 

Port Adelaide will love Jack

It can't be entirely JWs fault surely SW?  I seem to recall we signed him on a new 3 year deal at the end of last year, having already seen 7 years of what he was bringing.

6 minutes ago, JTR said:

According to big screen he was 6th on 166 votes (for memory - may have been 164) after 14 rounds 

 

If that's true, he played 5 games after round 14 and polled 8 votes out of a possible 200. That also equates to each selector giving him on average 0.4 out of 10 for his last 5 games played. 

I find that hard to believe.

I am a notorious fence sitter but probably the most important question is - Is anyone truly surprised it has come to this with Watts ? If the answer is no ( which is the answer you would arrive at if you were looking at this detached and unemotionally) then the next question is who needs to take responsibility for it coming to this ? It can be fraught with danger trying to compare one player to another, but a player should definitely be judged on whether they are getting the best out of themselves and doing everything possible to get the best out of themselves. After 9 years I would question Watts on him getting the best out of himself.

20 minutes ago, ProDee said:

The speeches were telling.

Viney mentioned Oliver was the hardest trainer at the club and lo and behold he wins the B&F.

Lewis spoke of begrudgingly doing "extras" as he was thanking some of the coaching staff. 

Also telling, the high position of ANB in the vote, especially the votes per game (he ranked 8th, I think).

Work hard, play your role, get the best out of yourself, impress coaches.

Simple in principle.

I think most of us are aware of Watts attitude with regards to training, no doubt he could apply himself better, but there are still numerous situations during a game when I'd rather the ball be in his hands than that of his teammates.

5 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

It can't be entirely JWs fault surely SW?  I seem to recall we signed him on a new 3 year deal at the end of last year, having already seen 7 years of what he was bringing.

Yes and maybe there were strict guidlines in that new contract that Jack signed his name to, that were not upheld

There has to be something that has not been adhered too

7 minutes ago, Nasher said:

It found its way on to the list due to a few of your fellow posters flinging it at each other left right and centre.  It really was giving admin the irrits and censoring it definitely blunted the behaviour of it, and required less administrative intervention than banning people.

I do agree that we should be able to [censored] dead horses on here though.

Fair enough, I could imagine it getting out of hand. Sounds like monkeys at the zoo

20 hours ago, demoniac said:

Alternate view is that tolerating Jack's failure to consistently adhere to elite training and preparation standards would be a culture killer. Such tolerance  would signal to our young players with equal or greater natural talent that cause they're talented like Jack they can also take shortcuts in their training and preparation.

Training and preparation should not be a cookie cutter prescription so this argument is flawed.

Every player would have a different program for totally different reasons. 

Coaches should be communicating this and ensure that performance is elite.

Its not all Jacks fault all the time. Seems Goodies given up that's his call. Hope this is not a Neeld moment. He can use it to get better results and that will be the measure

Other clubs seem to think they can get better performance. 

Ladder results will tell.

On 9 October 2017 at 5:19 AM, jnrmac said:

From last years B&F:

Upon receiving his fifth-place award, Watts said “I’ll make it (speech) short, it’s taken me a while to get up here (on stage). “Usually, I’m down there feeling a bit awkward drinking free p---”.

Roos: “Decide to be great. It is a decision, it doesn’t happen by accident. You have to want to be great. And greatness is not going to happen when you turn up on November 1 or whenever you turn up and Simon has got the whistle in charge. Greatness is going to happen when you walk out of this room tonight. That’s when greatness starts. You have to commit to it you have to want to do it and I would love nothing more than to see Simon and Nathan holding up the premiership cup."

Watts was dropped from the pre-season games.

People who think Goodwin has some 'vendetta' against Wats are deluded. He is a serial under-performer who has chosen his level of commitment to professionalism. That level is unacceptable. Posters that think Jack has to be treated with kid gloves and 'positive reinforcement' are crazy.  

Talent only gets you so far. Unprofessional players in a club are like a cancer.

Watts' finishes in the B&F:

2016 5th

2015 18th

2014 4th

2013 11th

2012 16th

2011 9th

2010 25th

You could mirror the arguments about Sylvia.

The club has done the right thing. And if Watts stays and commits to becoming a great player then everyone will be happy. If he goes and we get a good draft pick/player in return then I for one will be happy.

Good points Jnr but footballers aren't usually known for their tact and eloquence when receiving awards and most of what is said is throw away lines to avoid the spotlight and get off the podium ASAP, with few exceptions who love the spotlight and can't help themselves.

The club may be proven (or may not) to have done the right thing in good time but it's the way they aired the dirty laundry and gone about it that seems to have some, including myself, questioning the culture and methods down there.

The other issue is that Watts can be a good player on the day, he can be very good, but has also shown on many occasions that he can be a lot less also.  The other issue is we have many on the non-performing front who I would happily see delisted before Watts, and before Watts became "the issue" that the FD has decided to stomp over in the press and stamp its marker on.

He has definitely gone though, and the question to your last paragraph is THE most critical outcome to this whole debacle.   What/who do we get in return?   Unless it's a classy outsider who can hit targets consistently by foot, kick accurately from set shots and is a more competitive beast generally around the pill, then we will probably have lost on this one.

I'm an Orwell fan.

There's a bit of Animal Farm to the way the respective attitudes here hit the road.

I suspect he would've sympathised with Jack Watts in the circumstances.

But I don't blindly accept what those in authority have to say all of the time. I'd probably be on the outer too if I was a sufficiently talented footballer.

Goodwin's clearly setting a very high bar for himself in terms of performance and expectations. If he's fair dinkum about assessing himself, his coaching staff and his players by the same lofty standards, that can only be a good thing.

As an aside, I find it ironic that some posters here are seeking to characterise those posters here who are not uncritically falling into adopting the club line on the Watts situation as the Pollyanna ones. Plainly that is not the case.

I hope we get a good deal for Watts. Charlie Curnow would be nice.

 

Why, why, why, show him the door in full view of the entire footy world and potential suitors?

By Thursday, 1.29pm, he'll go for a can of Coke and a packet of Twisties

The commentary by Mahoney that he won't be traded unless it's a 'good deal' sounds like bs to me

I'm shattered

On 9 October 2017 at 9:08 AM, spirit of norm smith said:

WJ have you had a tablet. Port is in Adelaide. A two team town mad about AFL footy. Maybe he escapes a social bubble only to walk into a media circus bubble. Also walks to a key rival for 2018 top 4. Smart move????

Exactly Norm.  I would suggest the Swannies would be a mile ahead as a more suitable destination for Mr Watts given the spotlight he's been under in his first 8 years or so

18 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I think most of us are aware of Watts attitude with regards to training, no doubt he could apply himself better, but there are still numerous situations during a game when I'd rather the ball be in his hands than that of his teammates.

You are living in the '70s. It's what you are doing when you haven't got the ball in your hands that is just as important. The game is all about structures and playing your role. It's a team game, and if Watts isn't playing the role that the coach assigns, then he becomes a liability, regardless of how good his disposal is. 

If he was averaging 25 possessions a game, I might tend to agree with you. 

21 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I think most of us are aware of Watts attitude with regards to training, no doubt he could apply himself better, but there are still numerous situations during a game when I'd rather the ball be in his hands than that of his teammates.

Not one single person has disputed that Watts is good with the ball.