Time to show Oscar some respect!

[beelzebub 23,382]

19 minutes ago, Chris said:

The thing I noticed, and liked, was that he seemed to start having confidence to crash packs. A few times he flew and made a real impact to bring the ball to ground/get it out of bounds. In the past I have noticed him either hesitating or not going hard enough to make a real impact. he seemed to really throw himself at it quite a bit. He was also more composed with the ball. You are right though in that he wasn't outstanding, he was just very good which is what he should always be and is working towards. The potential is there to see, Oscar just needs to really commit to throwing himself at it in order for the rewards to truly come. 

Chris , what you describe is fair. For some ( myself included) that's requisite of a job done ok. Nothing warranting the fanfare being offered.

He did ok in the second half. The first was nothing to write home about indeed the 1st qtr was lamentable.

He has a long way still to go before , if indeed does, becoming a more than decent back of note. 

Many might have that as a card marked. It's purely obsevational and various opinions drawn.

Playing an ok game is not the be all. Playing well is the bar. 

When/if Oscar plays a whole game OK that will be another step up. 

Still...in all fairness, there's a lot of his teammates yet to play a whole game.

When he does, when the team does we'll be far more accomplished and successful.

Ill take the 4 points and a nod to those improving.

Oscar did ok... eventually. Thats better for sure than not.

[dimmy 1,308]

Let's be happy for the kid and his future !!  We are too often quick to highlight certain players deficiencies ( Watts has copped it for years)

The two McD's will be part of our P'ship team. TMac's bullocking efforts in the 2nd half got us into the game because

• Pedersen could play up fwd.
• OMac held up or defence

As I mentioned on another post TMac only took one mark yesterday which is way down on his usual, but his work in the Ruck as a big body rather than as a ruckman got us into it.

 

[Jaded No More 68,972]

5 hours ago, binman said:

You ignored two of my key points. Firstly, even with no Spencer they did not need to play him this week. They could have played Wagner who was dreadfully unlucky to be dropped. They only have one tall so no issue there. They didn't not because they had no option as some would like to believe but because he is in their best 22 and want him in the team not because of development but because they obviously think by having in the team it improved our chances of winning this critical match.  

And they played OMac all last season because.......

 

Wagner and OMac play totally different roles, how you can compare the two I don't know.
Case in point Wagner was dropped for Salem in the half back attacking flanker role. 

And they played OMac for some of last season because we knew Dunn and to a certain extent Garland were not in our future plans and we needed to develop some options, and with Frost injured for most of the year, he was our only option.

I have great faith in his ability to become a very good solid defender, but he is simply not yet ready to be that great player we need him to be, but the experience he is gaining is great and he is improving. IMO when Max and Hogan are back, Oscar will be the one dropped and dominating some VFL games would actually be great for his confidence, as was yesterday's second half.  You haven't suggested who you would drop to make way for Hogan and Gawn? 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

1 hour ago, Webber said:

For some on here binman, Oscar's card is stamped. They'll never see beyond his imperfections, but will nevertheless expect something closer to perfection than for other 'favoured' players. As you so accurately make the point, some of those other favoured players made mistakes that were just as significant yesterday. There's just no eliminating subjective bias, so Oscar will continue to get a bagging unless he miraculously morphs into a cross between Matthew Scarlett, Glen Jakovich and Gary Hardeman.  

An honestly ridiculous post. Especially your last sentence. 

Any player who continuously makes errors, is slow to react and looks completely and utterly out of his depth like Oscar has over the past month will be criticised. 

There's a reason why he was named on the extended bench at match selection. And that's still on the back of being three talls down. (Spencer, Gawn and Hogan). To me, that says a lot. He is young and will hopefully develop. But not all players come on, which is something some supporters fail to understand. There are no guarantees at AFL level and if you're a later draft pick, it generally means there are some knocks on your game unless you had a severe injury during your draft year or some other special circumstance that meant you were taken late.

Both McDonald's were late picks and Frost was a rookie. None of them had serious injuries during their under 18 years so therefore they have more obvious weaknesses to their game. Examples: General footballing specific skills for Frost, skills of Tom McDonald, speed and awareness of Oscar. They're weaknesses. If you look at the other lines we have, we're stacked with high end picks. Midfield and Forward. Which is why we see players like ANB, Stretch, Kent etc in and out of the side constantly. They don't have the same room to move as Oscar does on game day. We have much more coverage and higher quality coverage at that. An important point that is often missed when the Oscar debate sparks.

Oscar will continue to be "bagged" until this problem is resolved.

Which will without a doubt be by the start of next season

Edited June 13, 2017 by stevethemanjordan

[Webber 10,538]

15 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

An honestly ridiculous post. Especially your last sentence. 

Any player who continuously makes errors, is slow to react and looks completely and utterly out of his depth like Oscar has over the past month will be criticised. 

There's a reason why he was named on the extended bench at match selection. And that's still on the back of being three talls down. (Spencer, Gawn and Hogan). To me, that says a lot. He is young and will hopefully develop. But not all players come on, which is something some supporters fail to understand. There are no guarantees at AFL level and if you're a later draft pick, it generally means there are some knocks on your game unless you had a severe injury during your draft year or some other special circumstance that meant you were taken late.

Both McDonald's were late picks and Frost was a rookie. None of them had serious injuries during their under 18 years so therefore they have more obvious weaknesses to their game. Examples: General footballing specific skills for Frost, skills of Tom McDonald, speed and awareness of Oscar. They're weaknesses. If you look at the other lines we have, we're stacked with high end picks. Midfield and Forward. Which is why we see players like ANB, Stretch, Kent etc in and out of the side constantly. They don't have the same room to move as Oscar does on game day. We have much more coverage and higher quality coverage at that. An important point that is often missed when the Oscar debate sparks.

Oscar will continue to be "bagged" until this problem is resolved.

Which will without a doubt be by the start of next season

So many problems with this draft oversimplification and failure to account for the exceptions, that it doesn't warrant rebuttal. You obviously thought my last sentence of satirical hyperbole was a serious comparison though, which is a worry. Your claim that Oscar "CONTINUOUSLY makes errors, is slow to react and looks COMPLETELY and UTTERLY out of his depth" is some of the best hyperbole I've seen, and clearly nonsense. 

[Moonshadow 17,677]

4 hours ago, picket fence said:

So Nasher, I call it as I see it and in my opinion he has been very ordinary and I have said so, I hadn't until yesterday seen anything that would make me think he will be any good. That is my right to express a footy view, after all isn't this why the forum exists?? We don't live in a fairy tale world unfortunately. He still might not make it , but yesterday He played his best game and I said as much. Pity that my comments nearly made you throw up! Tell you what, many of Melbourne footy clubs efforts over the past 50 years have made me nearly throw up as well. Now that is a real reason to chuck! 

Thought you were going to shut up about Oscar and let others decide? Not only are you a contrarian picket but you can't keep your promises. 

Oscar improved as the season progressed last year and he improved on the weekend as the game progressed. He makes some clangers which stand out, as do most on our team, but he is tracking well for his age, position and size. With another couple of preseason, 4-6kg of muscle and around 40 games, I believe he will become integral to our structure.

[Dees_In_October 3,495]

Credit where it's due. It's no Leo Barry, but enjoyable nonetheless.

[Pates 9,660]

I'll put my hand up one that was less than impressed by OMacs decision making and disposal in the first quarter and I don't think I'm guilty of anything there, there were three passages of play I can remember that just simply weren't good enough. 

But credit to him, he shook it off and had a very good game after that (under injury duress apparently). His grubby kick to Harmes at the end was very clever and exactly the right decision, which shows he may develop more poise in the future as the heat was never higher than that moment. 

Edited June 13, 2017 by Pates

[Deestroy All 14,266]

13 hours ago, picket fence said:

So Nasher, I call it as I see it and in my opinion he has been very ordinary and I have said so, I hadn't until yesterday seen anything that would make me think he will be any good. That is my right to express a footy view, after all isn't this why the forum exists?? We don't live in a fairy tale world unfortunately. He still might not make it , but yesterday He played his best game and I said as much. Pity that my comments nearly made you throw up! Tell you what, many of Melbourne footy clubs efforts over the past 50 years have made me nearly throw up as well. Now that is a real reason to chuck! 

Then you're a poor judge if you haven't seen anything that says he'll be any good before yesterday. While he's made plenty of blunders, he's also shown plenty of signs before QB. He's still not developed and I don't think he's fully ready for AFL level, so the fact that he does do good things at top level ahead of time is a credit to him. 

People have short memories, forgetting how bad Garland, Frawley even Alex Rance looked early on. Not everyone can be Lever or Weitering from day dot. 

Oscar (even more so his brother) drive me nuts on game day sometimes, but he has attributes and we need to remember he'll take some time. 

 

I thought his first half QB was poor watching live. It wasn't. It was 2 left foot kicks that scarred my brain. It was his best full game. He was good. 

[Nasher 33,617]

7 hours ago, Dees_In_October said:

Credit where it's due. It's no Leo Barry, but enjoyable nonetheless.

Not a bad effort for someone "completely and utterly out of his depth".

[Nasher 33,617]

5 hours ago, Deestroy All said:

 

I thought his first half QB was poor watching live. It wasn't. It was 2 left foot kicks that scarred my brain. It was his best full game. He was good. 

There are so many posters who are guilty of being biased towards 30 seconds of play DA (read: probably all of us), but very few capable of recognising it after the fact and correcting. Great post.

[binman 43,732]

7 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Not a bad effort for someone "completely and utterly out of his depth".

Or for someone 'who can not read the ball in flight'.  

I watched the replay last night and focused on OMacs game looking for errors (in fact i ended up focusing on the errors of all the players, which was weird). As DA notes there were there were two errors from OMac in the first q from left foot clearing kicks. Funnily enough i had thought (and wrote) both lead to goals when in fact only the second did. The first went to a semi contest that Dunn easily marked - but it was closer to our HF than HB so a pretty standard clearing kick. On both sides i counted about 15 such kicks, including one from Hunt under no pressure who elected not go in board, not down the line and set up Sharenburg for an easy mark.  One was from Lewis who had three possessions to half time and one was hack of the ground straight to a pies player. Salem did at least two, one directly causing a goal when he kicked it to a player 35 metres out 9Langdon?). 

The second did result in a goals and he was bagged by Whispers Watson. What was funny was the ball should not have been with OMac. Viney hacked kicked one from a contest that only went 15 metres and straight to Aish on the 50 metre line, who then pumped it back in.

Watson criticized Salem and oMc for not handballing but i wonder if the direction from the coach is actually to try and clear the area with a kick such was the frequency players did such kicks rather than handball. It wouldn't be the first time Watson showed how clueless he is about the modern game. I actually wonder if OMacs harshest critics and/or those who think his first half was poor were watching the game on TV not live and were unduly influenced by the dingbat commentators ('the ball fell in his lap, he just put his hand out', 'you can't teach composure', 'he has to get better' etc etc) who know no more about OMac than they do about where Howe has played in the past,

Those two bad kicks were OMacs only errors for the day that i saw - and i watched carefully. Two. His first quarter was actually better than i remembered. Lots of composed handballs and kicks that hit hit targets and a goal saving spoil that he followed up and earned a free kick. He was actually not that involved in the second, but made no mistakes and did his job and had a terrific second half. played well for the rest. He was on Moore for much of the game, however not on either occasion when he kicked his two goals 

OMac had a good game. Not great, but good. And a much better game than many of his teammates

Compare his game to  Salem who made at least 6 bad errors and cost us at least 4 goals with two within a minute. Or Lewis who had three possessions at the 10 minute mark of the 3rd, one of which was the aforementioned clanger. Or Hunt who continually kicked the ball to the opposition or helicopters into our forward line to the forward's disadvantage. Or Viney who only had 5 possession to half time, one of which was a clanger. Or ANB who twice missed players all alone in our forward line, Or Frost who twice got tackled trying to break lines, with the second resulting in pies game (which none the less earned praise from Whispers who said that's how he plays) and consistently mistimed his marking attempts.  

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

1 hour ago, Nasher said:

Not a bad effort for someone "completely and utterly out of his depth".

I said that about his past month. Not Monday's game.

[PaulRB 6,411]

Omac is the new Jack Watts.

Love him, but...

[Vipercrunch 2,827]

5 hours ago, binman said:

Or for someone 'who can not read the ball in flight'.  

I watched the replay last night and focused on OMacs game looking for errors (in fact i ended up focusing on the errors of all the players, which was weird). As DA notes

.

.

.

disadvantage. Or Viney who only had 5 possession to half time, one of which was a clanger. Or ANB who twice missed players all alone in our forward line, Or Frost who twice got tackled trying to break lines, with the second resulting in pies game (which none the less earned praise from Whispers who said that's how he plays) and consistently mistimed his marking attempts.  

Great summary.  One rushed kicked out of defence and an up-and-under kick to our half forward line.  And someone calls that "atrocious"???  Incredible blindspots.

Petracca and Sidebottom both had howlers yet were widely voted as the best two players on the ground.

Quite surprised Vince's name hasn't come up as someone committing plenty of mistakes.  Some of his handballing in particular was really poor.  Either to players feet or above their heads.  Really slowed our momentum at times.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,806]

On 13 June 2017 at 1:35 PM, jnrmac said:

Good second half. Abominable first half.

One swallow does not a summer make...

I  was so surprised that anyone could say OMac was "abominable" in the first half, I watched the replay again( for the third time). He played pretty well in Q1, then very well for the rest oft the he game.

Yes, he had two hurried kicks in Q1 that did not end up to our advantage, but overall, he defended well.

For he rest of the match,he disposed of the ball excellently apart from those two kicks, which  were under great pressure, and far from "abominable".

Twice his creative play from the backline ended up in crucial goals.

My good mate that I sit next to each week reckons he's hopeless. Anything that goes wrong he ends up blaming Omac.

You might be like him,jnrmac.    ( by th way, Omac is another "jnrmac".)

[monoccular 17,573]

On 13/06/2017 at 7:54 AM, dazzledavey36 said:

Hopefully this was the break out game needed and his confidence sky rockets from here on.

I agree fully, best game I have seen him play, yet ironically he could well be "managed" this week due to team balance  and the need and (eventually) availability of a real ruckman. 

Also, there was talk at some stage of an injury. Any follow up on this?

Edited June 14, 2017 by monoccular

[junk 342]

There are always going to be some player to get slagged,most of all it is the revolving door players.Some players step up especially when there are better players around them,like a Lewis. I have faith in Oscar,must be that glamour pick 43 that does it. What most surprises me of late is the way Nat Jones is playing,certainly there will be those who disagree and that's fine. I am glad to see Frost"y" cement his position in the senior side.

[In Harmes Way 7,823]

19 hours ago, Deestroy All said:

Then you're a poor judge if you haven't seen anything that says he'll be any good before yesterday. While he's made plenty of blunders, he's also shown plenty of signs before QB. He's still not developed and I don't think he's fully ready for AFL level, so the fact that he does do good things at top level ahead of time is a credit to him. 

People have short memories, forgetting how bad Garland, Frawley even Alex Rance looked early on. Not everyone can be Lever or Weitering from day dot. 

Oscar (even more so his brother) drive me nuts on game day sometimes, but he has attributes and we need to remember he'll take some time. 

 

I thought his first half QB was poor watching live. It wasn't. It was 2 left foot kicks that scarred my brain. It was his best full game. He was good. 

Nailed it DA. ?

[Farmer 887]

On 13/06/2017 at 8:48 AM, Clint Bizkit said:

His first half was the worst he's ever played, his second half was the best.

Watch the bloody game again and then apologise!  He was infinitely better than Frost and Lewis, even in the first half 

[Farmer 887]

On 13/06/2017 at 10:08 AM, picket fence said:

So when he plays well and I acknowledge it isn't right??? Ok Ill shut up about Oscar then and let others decide!

The lack of memory on this site is remarkable. He played extremely well,in difficult  circumstances v Adelaide. And to suggest that he was v poor in the first quarter is to ignore how many errors, were made by so many, in the frenetic first half hour. My companion, a constant critic, commented at quarter time that, overall, he'd played quite well. The replay shows this to be correct

[Stingray 157]

On 6/12/2017 at 10:31 PM, danielE288 said:

I'd guess Pedo would get the chop.

Are you serious??? He's a legend. In every meaning of the word. If he'd been played earlier this year we'd be even more solidified in the 8.

[felixdacat 459]

I guess all in all the you could say every Dee had a bad first half and improved in the second half. 

O-Mac is frustrating to watch but some of the disposal of Lewis, Vince, Viney, Salem, Petracca during the match left alot to be desired.

[Stingray 157]

1 minute ago, felixdacat said:

I guess all in all the you could say every Dee had a bad first half and improved in the second half. 

O-Mac is frustrating to watch but some of the disposal of Lewis, Vince, Viney, Salem, Petracca during the match left alot to be desired.

Jetta did not have a bad first half. Nor did Hannan, jones, watts or garlett. At the least.........

[danielE288 779]

8 hours ago, Stingray said:

Are you serious??? He's a legend. In every meaning of the word. If he'd been played earlier this year we'd be even more solidified in the 8.

Yeah I like Pedo, and he has been great covering for Gawn but logically Gawn comes straight in for him, can't see Goody dropping Oscar or Frost, height in the backline is a necessity