1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

He’ll also be 28 before the start of the season. 

Nope, 27, born January 1992

6 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

Nope, 27, born January 1992

I was replying to a poster who was talking about waiting an extra year and waiting until May was a RFA. Hence my answer, he’ll be 28 then. 

Edited September 30, 20186 yr by Ethan Tremblay

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

May plays all of next year as a 27 year old.  Edit: I see you're referring to the following year.

Some supporters have their red and blue goggles on.  Firstly, they underestimate May as a player, and secondly they overrate our defence.

With May in our side we're as capable as any other team to win the 2019 premiership.  Without May I can't see us winning.  Oscar, Frost and Lever are not a good enough grouping to win the flag.  Your tall defenders are crucial.

May is about as big a no brainer as it gets.

May has been an undisciplined sook for last 2 years, has shown no captain qualities at all, yes he is a good big goriila minder, but please, does he pass the no [censored] test

3 hours ago, Jaded said:

We won’t win a flag with our current defense. It is the absolute weakest part of our team and probably the most crucial in finals. We need to get some strong experience in there, and that’s hard to come by. If we can get May, we should. It takes years to develop key backman and May could slot straight into our backline. 

I agree jaded, we won't win  flag with this current defece setup. 

 - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

But disagree on the other areas of the ground. Defence isn't our weakest area per-se.  They are all on par with each other.   All/most very good, but not true Top-3 yet.

# Forwards: Q's/ Petracca, and our speed, no X factor. 8/10

# Mids-Inside: Q's/ if Vandenberg &/or Tyson go, we need 2 other tough insiders with class, need speed !!!  8/10

# Mids-Runners: Q's/ Stretch hopefully,,, potentially Salem,  Hunt ???__  not much here that I can think of, off the top. 5/10

# Rucks: Q's/ support for Gawn, physical hurt factor ?  9/10

# Backs: we lack power against the big forwards, and we lack enough polish Re skills for moving the footy precisely. Smarts... 7/10

# Depth: we have to better ourselves here, with experience and with fresh young talent as well.  The recent deepartures show we are moving on this area. 3/10

 

# Off-Field-Coaches: I think we're very well off. 9/10

# Off-Field-Admin:  I believe we are in good shape here, but lets keep the limeknight-wannabe's out of the office. They are the real cursed Dee-Railers.

 

# Crowd support.  I perceive a huge improvement, during the course of this year...  with less polite, and more passion and verbal vigour.  A real ferocity is being birthed, so far, and the involvement is a huge improvement. 

Lets see more 'Demon Waves', and collective involvement and crowd 'Demons-United', with less polish and more hungry verbal intensity from our loyal and starved Fan base. 

We need a real  'Demons of the Outer'  thunderous involvement, to help steer our boys over the line.

 

Get involved, get invested... Dees.

 

.

19 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

May has been an undisciplined sook for last 2 years, has shown no captain qualities at all, yes he is a good big goriila minder, but please, does he pass the no [censored] test

Tell him that to his face.

Isn't that how it goes with you Saty?

 

Once on our list you will be fawning all over him. 

I want a flag, and May provides a better way to get there.

3 minutes ago, faultydet said:

Tell him that to his face.

Isn't that how it goes with you Saty?

 

Once on our list you will be fawning all over him. 

I want a flag, and May provides a better way to get there.

So what evidence do you have to say May is the answer, his last couple of years?

I don't fawn, and if you treat players with respect you can discuss their game with them, perceived faults and all, you want to try it, you may learn something

If one of the journos happens to mention we are interested in a player, you can guarantee a topic very quickly on here with posters extolling their virtues as the second coming

As the same time denigrating players already on our list

Everyone has an opinion, mine is May is overrated, doesn't mean the FD share that opinion

2 hours ago, deanox said:

To me, we didn't lose many games because of our defense. 

We're not building, for the home and away games now...  We are building to beat the top 4 teams.

Its a different kettle of fish now. Now we look for a better polish.

 

2 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

He’ll also be 28 before the start of the season. 

Perfect, for our current list, and our young defenders to develop. Petty, Keilty, dJohnstone.

His age allows us to free cap space in time for the following group coming through in 4 - 5 years.

 

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

the marking power displayed by the Eagles yesterday. We have been beat up by big key forwards for years, it's one of our major Achilles heels. 

In recent decades, we have been beaten up by bigger and harder opponents, in all size ranges... including under 6 footers...  That has been our Achilles heal.   soft in September_

     Because we have tended to want to be be cleaner & holier than thou...  and so we have only been able, according to the choir-boy ethos, (that very same choir-boy styled ethos, that killed off our Smithy's 'fire and brimstone' culture)... to recruit clean cut types... with nil tattoos, or way-wood expressions...  'sheep'... 'merino sheep'__

 

Only the finest of skilled players could do us...  a recipe for nice games of footy at the 'G'...  but September flops.

.

Edited September 30, 20186 yr by DV8

1

Edited September 30, 20186 yr by Redleg

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

1

you doing the riddles now ??

2 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Everyone has an opinion, mine is May is overrated, doesn't mean the FD share that opinion

Clearly they don’t as we’ve initiated meetings with the player and have shown strong interest in him most of the season. 

As have Collingwood, Essendon and Hawthorn at the very minimum. 

2 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

So what evidence do you have to say May is the answer, his last couple of years?

I don't fawn, and if you treat players with respect you can discuss their game with them, perceived faults and all, you want to try it, you may learn something

If one of the journos happens to mention we are interested in a player, you can guarantee a topic very quickly on here with posters extolling their virtues as the second coming

As the same time denigrating players already on our list

Everyone has an opinion, mine is May is overrated, doesn't mean the FD share that opinion

Textbook Saty 

2 hours ago, DV8 said:

I agree jaded, we won't win  flag with this current defece setup. 

 - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

But disagree on the other areas of the ground. Defence isn't our weakest area per-se.  They are all on par with each other.   All/most very good, but not true Top-3 yet.

# Forwards: Q's/ Petracca, and our speed, no X factor. 8/10

# Mids-Inside: Q's/ if Vandenberg &/or Tyson go, we need 2 other tough insiders with class, need speed !!!  8/10

# Mids-Runners: Q's/ Stretch hopefully,,, potentially Salem,  Hunt ???__  not much here that I can think of, off the top. 5/10

# Rucks: Q's/ support for Gawn, physical hurt factor ?  9/10

# Backs: we lack power against the big forwards, and we lack enough polish Re skills for moving the footy precisely. Smarts... 7/10

# Depth: we have to better ourselves here, with experience and with fresh young talent as well.  The recent deepartures show we are moving on this area. 3/10

 

# Off-Field-Coaches: I think we're very well off. 9/10

# Off-Field-Admin:  I believe we are in good shape here, but lets keep the limeknight-wannabe's out of the office. They are the real cursed Dee-Railers.

 

# Crowd support.  I perceive a huge improvement, during the course of this year...  with less polite, and more passion and verbal vigour.  A real ferocity is being birthed, so far, and the involvement is a huge improvement. 

Lets see more 'Demon Waves', and collective involvement and crowd 'Demons-United', with less polish and more hungry verbal intensity from our loyal and starved Fan base. 

We need a real  'Demons of the Outer'  thunderous involvement, to help steer our boys over the line.

 

Get involved, get invested... Dees.

 

.

Forwards: If Spargo steps up to 1-2 goals per game, and Weideman continues on his improvement, with TMac, Melksham, and Trac it looks very good. Better ball delivery into forward line will make the highest scoring team in 2018 even better. Hogan is a loss! Recruiting a quality quick crumber would be good.

Backs: Lever coming back will help and if May joins, he adds that gorilla owner that we lack. He also has a bit of mongrel that premiership teams need. 

Mids: Give Oliver, Brayshaw, Harmes another year, Viney a preseason add Max with a backup and they are elite. Tyson and VDB were rarely used, covered by Petracca coming in occasionally.

Outside mids: This is a soft spot, for mine Fritsch should take a wing and hopefully Stretch is fit and steps up. Maybe Salem, but I like him in backline. We need to recruit a class outside mid.

Depth: We lost Lever, Hogan and Stretch when he finally looked good, and managed to win two finals, so I think our depth was pretty good. I always compare depth to other teams, and only Eagles, Collingwood and Richmond were perhaps slightly better re depth and not really sure on Tigers as they didn’t lose any of Rance, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Martin or Nankervis. If they lost Rance as we lost Lever and Riewoldt Vs Hogan, they couldn’t replace them. So they have no spine depth, only Eagles & Pies with better depth for mine!

Next year a different ball game, looks like we have 8-10 players to replace, so once trading is done, will then be able to better judge how we look!

I liken this move for May to Hawthorn’s shrewd recruiting of Brian Lake at the end of the 2012 season. The Hawks lost the 2012 GF to Sydney and Clarkson quickly identified the main weak link in that side - Ryan Schoenmakers did not quite cut the mustard in a key back role. So he quickly targets his man in Lake with the promise of joining the Hawks on a sustained premiership run. Lake needs little convincing, goes on to play in a premiership three-peat including winning the Norm Smith in 2013 against Freo.

May has a great opportunity here to be that player for us.

Edited September 30, 20186 yr by EnterTheDragon

14 minutes ago, EnterTheDragon said:

Clearly they don’t as we’ve initiated meetings with the player and have shown strong interest in him most of the season. 

Is this correct? I was told it was May’s management that initiated the discussions. Either way, I wasn’t sold on May initially but there are some strong arguments on here about what he could add to the team and how it will benefit. 

8 minutes ago, Dee Zephyr said:

Is this correct? I was told it was May’s management that initiated the discussions. Either way, I wasn’t sold on May initially but there are some strong arguments on here about what he could add to the team and how it will benefit. 

We have been active in enquiring about May is my understanding. I doubt we would have initiated face-to-face meetings with the player if it was merely May’s management who approached us.

Its not ‘lukewarm’ interest, put it that way. We’re keen.

On 9/27/2018 at 6:24 PM, Superunknown said:

All I can hear is gongs and wa-taaaaaa and kung fu sound effects 

its all very distracting Bruce

I find it hard to believe that everybody was Kung-Fu fighting

18 minutes ago, D4Life said:

Forwards: If Spargo steps up to 1-2 goals per game, and Weideman continues on his improvement, with TMac, Melksham, and Trac it looks very good. Better ball delivery into forward line will make the highest scoring team in 2018 even better. Hogan is a loss! Recruiting a quality quick crumber would be good.

Backs: Lever coming back will help and if May joins, he adds that gorilla owner that we lack. He also has a bit of mongrel that premiership teams need. 

Mids: Give Oliver, Brayshaw, Harmes another year, Viney a preseason add Max with a backup and they are elite. Tyson and VDB were rarely used, covered by Petracca coming in occasionally.

Outside mids: This is a soft spot, for mine Fritsch should take a wing and hopefully Stretch is fit and steps up. Maybe Salem, but I like him in backline. We need to recruit a class outside mid.

Depth: We lost Lever, Hogan and Stretch when he finally looked good, and managed to win two finals, so I think our depth was pretty good. I always compare depth to other teams, and only Eagles, Collingwood and Richmond were perhaps slightly better re depth and not really sure on Tigers as they didn’t lose any of Rance, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Martin or Nankervis. If they lost Rance as we lost Lever and Riewoldt Vs Hogan, they couldn’t replace them. So they have no spine depth, only Eagles & Pies with better depth for mine!

Next year a different ball game, looks like we have 8-10 players to replace, so once trading is done, will then be able to better judge how we look!

# Backs: Lever coming back from his 2nd Reco...  no promises with him. I wouldn't like to insure him Re the cost...  May is a MUST.

# Mids: Oliver, Brayshaw, Harmes, Viney, add Max  This is just one rotation of mids. need more talent. with Tyson & AVB on the way oote.

# Outside mids: Fritsch, Stretch , 2 capable, hopefully, & Salem...   I see Fritta as a beneficial utility, small-medium_ I don't want him to attract a lock down player just yet.  He's a bit fine to resist too much close attention, just yet.

A weak area of our list, regarding not enough numbers with the speed and skills.

# Depth: I want us to recruit another tall forward as a project__  A couple of quick running Mids who can win their own footy & love to chase & tackle...  a bit of mongrel along with their skills.

 

_ so in short, I want us to recruit 'pairs of players', in areas we need...  odd couples. a young kid and an experienced player, for each role identified... Draft and Trade.  To cover both the short, and our longer outlook.

 

.

8 minutes ago, DV8 said:

# Backs: Lever coming back from his 2nd Reco...  no promises with him. I wouldn't like to insure him Re the cost...  May is a MUST.

# Mids: Oliver, Brayshaw, Harmes, Viney, add Max  This is just one rotation of mids. need more talent. with Tyson & AVB on the way oote.

# Outside mids: Fritsch, Stretch , 2 capable, hopefully, & Salem...   I see Fritta as a beneficial utility, small-medium_ I don't want him to attract a lock down player just yet.  He's a bit fine to resist too much close attention, just yet.

A weak area of our list, regarding not enough numbers with the speed and skills.

# Depth: I want us to recruit another tall forward as a project__  A couple of quick running Mids who can win their own footy & love to chase & tackle...  a bit of mongrel along with their skills.

 

_ so in short, I want us to recruit 'pairs of players', in areas we need...  odd couples. a young kid and an experienced player, for each role identified... Draft and Trade.  To cover both the short, and our longer outlook.

 

.

Fair comments, like the old/young concept, only area I feel we’re fine compared to you is the mids.

Rotation 1 - Oliver, Brayshaw, Harmes.

Rotation 2 - Viney, Petracca, Jones.

Others - ANB, Salem.

From my recall of finals matches Oliver, Brayshaw, Harmes, and Viney covered about 80-90% of centre bounces, so get Petracca to play a little more mid time.

Tyson, AVB didn’t get much time in middle. But maybe amongst the 8-10 picks we look like having, might find another inside mid in the mix.

To date keep hearing a lot about ins:

Preuss great to support Max and if anything happens.

May gives us a gorilla tamer and hard but which is good. Thought he was going to Pies!

KKK who may be an outside mid for us, particularly if his skills are good as reported.

Outs:

Hogan - big loss.

Kent - while occasional very good game, lots of so so games and injury prone, which is unlucky for him, so minimal loss.

Tyson - first two years were very good, but last few only fair and skills fell apart. Losing a reasonable depth / interchange back up mid.

AVB - love his pure aggression and tackling, skills ordinary, will be missed as a handy bottom six player. Always felt he was similar to Bugg.

Delisted guys - can all be replaced.

Should be interesting to see what trades we do, assuming Hogan gone if we have 5 & 10 as replacement, might go for one of the gun kids in the super draft with 5!

5 hours ago, rjay said:

You would be one of very few 'deanox'.

To me it's a huge problem, if we can get it sorted and add a bit of silk we are set.

 

5 hours ago, EnterTheDragon said:

You forgot to add the prelim final where we were torched by Kennedy and Darling.

If you haven’t got the defensive artillery to halt guys like that it doesn’t matter if it’s only three or four key forwards in the league who worry you, the point is you’re NOT going to win the premiership. 

At some point in the finals, without a top line back six, you’re going to come a cropper. 

You're right I didn't add the prelim but we we were torched in the midfield not in defense.  Kent Kingsley would have kicked a bag against us that day.

I should correct my statement.  I don't think full back is our "biggest" problem. We successfully contained key forwards on plenty of other days when the midfield fired. 

In creating that list,  what jumped out to me was actually how often a medium forward kicked 3+ against us (not listed). We don't have true medium defenders, just rebounders. Maybe bringing May in releases Frost to play that role?

 

 

4 hours ago, rpfc said:

@deanox what would say we should improve?

Here is my perceived needs list in order:

1. Outside player with elite skills to driver into the forwards 

2. Tall defender to allow Oscar to play on the ubiquitous 2nd ruck and Lever to play on the third tall

3. Natural small forward to play at the feet of Preuss/Gawn and Weideman

None are glaring - we came fourth - but each have their own impacts should we successfully address them. We have a dominant midfield but we don’t kick the ball Inside 50 well, hence the number one priority. We then get sliced apart on the counter with a patchwork defence that contains a few NQR players amongst Lever, Hibberd, Jetta, and Salem. The third priority is somewhat ameliorated by the first but at the moment we have former midfielders playing a role that is unsuited to them (even though they are giving it a red hot show).

So getting someone like May is second on my list for us to push for a flag. That is hard to argue against when discussing maximising the value we get from a trade. Does it matter if we get what we need?

@rpfc your list is ok, not far off mine. 

Imo, when we lost games it was one of two things: lack of midfield defensive running, or poor kicking (particularly into 50).

Might first priority is then skilled kicks in the midfield. With 59.8 i50s per game (the most of any team) I'd like to see us hit targets more often going forward. 

2nd priority is hard running and skilled mids. Our hardest running players are also some of our weaker disposals. 

3rd priority is a true medium defender who can mean up the Menzels, Breusts, Stringers. That is currently done by Hibberd. Lever isn't the right guy.

4th priority is a KPD.

A 2nd ruck is also a high priority but less critical. I think we are chasing Preuss because we know Hogan is gone.  We then play him as a ruck forward. 

The small forward is a need but I think it can be ignored because we have such depth on that space, although losing Kent and perhaps VDB will test us. 

Getting May may improve us, and could free Frost to be the medium defender, but I'm not sure Frost is better in that role than his current role. So I think we'd still have that weakness.

I'm concerned May is overpriced for 3-4 years of service. I think we are better spending that high amount of currency on priorities 1, 2 and even 3, as those priorities basically don't gauge any incumbent. 

 

10 minutes ago, deanox said:

I'm concerned May is overpriced for 3-4 years of service. I think we are better spending that high amount of currency on priorities 1, 2 and even 3, as those priorities basically don't gauge any incumbent. 

 

Brian Lake joined Hawthorn at the age of 30 to go on and play three seasons of top line footy at fullback for them, including three premierships.

May’s age of 27yo should not concern us in the slightest. He’s in his prime and should be good for 4 - 6 years if managed well.

If anything he’s a fitter specimen than Lake was!

Edited September 30, 20186 yr by EnterTheDragon

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

I find it hard to believe that everybody was Kung-Fu fighting

Your mind becomes fast as lightning.

8 minutes ago, deanox said:

 

Getting May may improve us, and could free Frost to be the medium defender, but I'm not sure Frost is better in that role than his

 

Gday Deanox...Im not ignoring the rest of your post as it were.. ( as many good points in there )  . Imho there is no may in MAY. ( that sounds so odd..lol )  Maybe his name ought be Steven Will.

I agree as will many that we lost many games for all the reason youve mentioned....plus ONE...an important one for mine. The back structure was deliberately flawed. Why deliberate ? Because we no longer had a key element that was to make it humm...Lever. Once he went down ( sadly after finally  finding his groove ) they (club ) shuffled. We no longer had enough of the same cards to cover...so it was 'make do " for the rest of the season. With the inability to chop off a lot of incoming...( goes to your mids lacking sufficient defending ) our backline, especially Oscar and Hibberd were left exposed as undermanned. Pig tried hard...so too really did Oscar , but McDonald isnt quite there yet and he got monstered at times.

Enter May.  There will always be games where despite the best planning the ball gets to our defenders quicker than desired. Its their job as defenders to ...well...defend. To regain the ball and initiate the rebound. We just dont do that altogether well just at the moment.

As many suggest May means we duck shove downwards the roles. We wont be fielding all of May, McD and Frost at the same time...something gives here.

The May effect is an upgrade to what we have presently.

11 minutes ago, deanox said:

@rpfc your list is ok, not far off mine. 

Imo, when we lost games it was one of two things: lack of midfield defensive running, or poor kicking (particularly into 50).

Might first priority is then skilled kicks in the midfield. With 59.8 i50s per game (the most of any team) I'd like to see us hit targets more often going forward. 

2nd priority is hard running and skilled mids. Our hardest running players are also some of our weaker disposals. 

3rd priority is a true medium defender who can mean up the Menzels, Breusts, Stringers. That is currently done by Hibberd. Lever isn't the right guy.

4th priority is a KPD.

A 2nd ruck is also a high priority but less critical. I think we are chasing Preuss because we know Hogan is gone.  We then play him as a ruck forward. 

The small forward is a need but I think it can be ignored because we have such depth on that space, although losing Kent and perhaps VDB will test us. 

Getting May may improve us, and could free Frost to be the medium defender, but I'm not sure Frost is better in that role than his current role. So I think we'd still have that weakness.

I'm concerned May is overpriced for 3-4 years of service. I think we are better spending that high amount of currency on priorities 1, 2 and even 3, as those priorities basically don't gauge any incumbent. 

 

Your first two priorities are the same - skills in the midfield.

Your 3rd priority is now your second and it is to find a replacement for what Hibberd does. I don’t see the cause and effect that would come from that... Hibberd released more? Menzel and Breust were non-factors in the two finals we played against them.

And that leads to the last priority - a tall defender. I would overspend in a trade for a skillful mid and I would overspend in a trade for a tall defender.

Return on investment is measured in GFs and flags, not in what we get back commensurate to perceived player value. 

1 hour ago, Mach5 said:

Textbook Saty 

He's got that response saved in a Word Document.  Just a simple cut and paste for him these days.