Clarence Oliver

[DeeZee 7,396]

Just another kick in the the guts to the MFC from the powers that be.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

What a Joke. The kid is as reliable as a Holden 186 Red Motor

not picked in the 40.....

[Diamond_Jim 12,588]

26 minutes ago, Abe said:

Kane Kornes is on a twitter rampage trying to defend claytons non selection saying he isn't damaging enough. 

Take a deep breath and think on this statement.

We are a high percentage handball team many of which are in the nature of old fashioned circle work.

Many people have said that Oliver needs to increase his kicking percentage.

Lot of upside for Oliver but a good reality check for those who think he is an automatic elite.

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Take a deep breath and think on this statement.

We are a high percentage handball team many of which are in the nature of old fashioned circle work.

Many people have said that Oliver needs to increase his kicking percentage.

Lot of upside for Oliver but a good reality check for those who think he is an automatic elite.

I think he's damaging because he can take a ball that 99% of the competition would allow to be locked in or couldn't hope to get clear and not only get it clear but get it to our advantage. He's unbelievable in close and clearly elite in this area. 

On this basis I think he should be in the side for what he is, an inside beast because no other inside mid has matched him as that role player 

[rjay 24,928]

1 hour ago, Abe said:

Kane Kornes is on a twitter rampage trying to defend claytons non selection saying he isn't damaging enough. 

Kane Kornes - definition; Irrelevant F....Wit

[Diamond_Jim 12,588]

7 minutes ago, Abe said:

I think he's damaging because he can take a ball that 99% of the competition would allow to be locked in or couldn't hope to get clear and not only get it clear but get it to our advantage. He's unbelievable in close and clearly elite in this area. 

On this basis I think he should be in the side for what he is, an inside beast because no other inside mid has matched him as that role player 

But is this true?

If so you would expect our effective clearance rate to be top notch but it's average at best.

Please don't think I'm knocking him but he has a way to go

[Jibroni 5,003]

8 minutes ago, rjay said:

Kane Kornes - definition; Irrelevant F....Wit

Exactly how this complete and useless moron is on the panel in the first place is beyond me. I have to listen to his diatribe on Adelaide radio, he is actually worse than his dad!

[rjay 24,928]

15 minutes ago, rjay said:

Kane Kornes - definition; Irrelevant F....Wit

 

5 minutes ago, Jibroni said:

Exactly how this complete and useless moron is on the panel in the first place is beyond me. I have to listen to his diatribe on Adelaide radio, he is actually worse than his dad!

Ah yes I forgot the plural...

Kornes Family - a tribe of irrelevant F...Wit's 

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

43 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

But is this true?

If so you would expect our effective clearance rate to be top notch but it's average at best.

Please don't think I'm knocking him but he has a way to go

No i certainly don't. But I also don't buy the idea that Oliver isn't damaging enough, of course he's going to become a lot more damaging as he kicks more but his inside game is absolutely elite. 

I think he's definitely top 40 and probably just missing the team itself 

[rjay 24,928]

2 hours ago, Abe said:

Kane Kornes is on a twitter rampage trying to defend claytons non selection saying he isn't damaging enough. 

 

2 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Take a deep breath and think on this statement.

We are a high percentage handball team many of which are in the nature of old fashioned circle work.

Many people have said that Oliver needs to increase his kicking percentage.

Lot of upside for Oliver but a good reality check for those who think he is an automatic elite.

 

1 hour ago, Abe said:

I think he's damaging because he can take a ball that 99% of the competition would allow to be locked in or couldn't hope to get clear and not only get it clear but get it to our advantage. He's unbelievable in close and clearly elite in this area. 

On this basis I think he should be in the side for what he is, an inside beast because no other inside mid has matched him as that role player 

 

56 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

But is this true?

If so you would expect our effective clearance rate to be top notch but it's average at best.

Please don't think I'm knocking him but he has a way to go

 

11 minutes ago, Abe said:

No i certainly don't. But I also don't buy the idea that Oliver isn't damaging enough, of course he's going to become a lot more damaging as he kicks more but his inside game is absolutely elite. 

I think he's definitely top 40 and probably just missing the team itself 

I also think he has a way to go  'Diamond' but to say he is not damaging enough is not correct if you take in the view of the coaches.

He's the only player we have that is consistently tagged and I've heard the Richmond FD in particular say that their defensive planning revolved around stopping Oliver.

Stop Oliver and we are in some trouble, Collingwood worked him over and it worked early on but he got out and with Trac was responsible for our comeback...they couldn't do it on their own.

This is also backed up by how he has poled in the Coaches award.

My own view to back this up is that when he gets his kicking & outside game together, and he is a very good kick, he will go to the elite level. He's already there with his inside and handball game, there is no doubt in my mind that he's now the most damaging player with hands in the competition.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

Oliver is still a kid. No where near his peak and has areas to work on though he is already doing amazing things.  He could be the greatest ever and will one day rival Greg Williams.

[Earl Hood 6,086]

2 hours ago, rjay said:

 

 

 

 

I also think he has a way to go  'Diamond' but to say he is not damaging enough is not correct if you take in the view of the coaches.

He's the only player we have that is consistently tagged and I've heard the Richmond FD in particular say that their defensive planning revolved around stopping Oliver.

Stop Oliver and we are in some trouble, Collingwood worked him over and it worked early on but he got out and with Trac was responsible for our comeback...they couldn't do it on their own.

This is also backed up by how he has poled in the Coaches award.

My own view to back this up is that when he gets his kicking & outside game together, and he is a very good kick, he will go to the elite level. He's already there with his inside and handball game, there is no doubt in my mind that he's now the most damaging player with hands in the competition.

I wanted to see him playing more time at half forward because he can take a mark and he can kick a goal. But the fact is we needed him in the middle big time because for much of the season we didn't have our best mid line up,  Viney and/ or Jones, Tyson, Vince etc. He kept racking up 30 plus possessions per game but perhaps his impact lessened toward the end of the season. 

[Jaded No More 68,915]

5 hours ago, Abe said:

Kane Kornes is on a twitter rampage trying to defend claytons non selection saying he isn't damaging enough. 

Kane Kornes would know all about not being damaging enough. Totally mediocre footballer, who has NFI. 

I don't mind that Oliver didn't get selected, I mind that he didn't get selected but someone like Bontempali, who had a crap season, got in purely on reputation!

[Palace Dees 2,330]

2 hours ago, america de cali said:

Oliver is still a kid. No where near his peak and has areas to work on though he is already doing amazing things.  He could be the greatest ever and will one day rival Greg Williams.

I have said as much to friends.  I describe him as a turbo inside mid in that he gets it out to our other 'inside' mids.  His vision is phenomenal and is a truly unique player in getting the ball out of congestion.  A beautiful kick and strong in the air. Impossible to successfully tag as he goes where others don't....... and just turned 20!  I would not swap him for ANY player in the AFL.  

Edited August 28, 2017 by Palace Dees
grammar

[Willmoy1947 4,089]

It sounds as though the stuffing has been knocked out of this topic, like a lot of the others. We have seen with our own eyes what this bloke can do with limited support from the maggots in the heat of just about every match contest.

It just tells you the Media hatred of our Club that some pipsqueak has the temerity to try and justify the unjustifiable.......

[Redleg 40,925]

Wow, 2nd best contested possession player in the AFL, one of the leading clearance players and more handballs than anyone in AFL history, 4th best tackler and 5th in disposals, all in his 2nd year and he cant crack the AA squad of 40.

Players like Jonas, Roberton, Ross etc must be superstars of the game then.

[ding 5,126]

Started the year fat and unfit.

Finished the year as one of the top few inside mids in the comp.

Already doing at 20 what most good mids cant do until they turn 25 (if ever)

Hands so fast the umpires have to guess how he got rid of the ball.

Watch his possessions in slow-mo.... most are a work of art.

Yeah, i would like him to kick more often as it get us more meters gained, but im not the one smashing into hardened bodies to lay my hands on the pill. 

Seriously, if this kid doesnt have a brownlow within 3 years i will eat my MFC cap.

Best draft pick in my lifetime, considering he came as such a surprise. 

Essendon did really well with Parish. Looks like he will be a gun. We did even better with our pick.

Get around him, and the recruiters.

I heart Oliver.

 

 

[Skuit 10,031]

A lot of what Clarry does is almost imperceptible in the thick of the action. Can't blame mortals for failing to recognise his brilliance. 

[Redleg 40,925]

From the AFL site:

His raw numbers stacked up: he led the League in handballs (21.9), was second in contested possessions (15.6), fifth in total disposals (659) and eighth in average disposals (30), 10th in clearances (6.6) and 11th in tackles (6.9). 

Oliver's handball rate helped, but his disposal efficiency of 77.1 per cent also ranked second among the top-10 ball-winners and fourth in the top 20.

Demons co-captain Nathan Jones was among those surprised at Oliver's omission. 

"It's obviously an opinion of the selectors, but from our perspective he's been a terrific addition to our team," Jones said. 

"He's taken a huge leap for a young player … and he's probably pretty stiff to miss out this year, but I'm tipping he won't be too far away."

Oliver perhaps needed to kick more than four goals and average more than 199.4 metres gained – the new buzz statistic in the AFL world. The pacesetters rack up 500-plus metres, while Hawk Tom Mitchell, for comparison's sake, amassed 313.4. 

Oliver's like-for-like competition was probably Matt Crouch, Rory Sloane, Joel Selwood, Dylan Shiel, Mitchell and Josh Kennedy. 

Kennedy played 19 games, Selwood 18, and Oliver is with the rest all on 22. 

Only Kennedy averaged more clearances than Oliver. Only Mitchell and Crouch averaged more disposals. None of that group won more contested possessions. Only Sloane out-tackled him.

Digging deeper, they all bettered Oliver's three inside 50s per match and, damningly, crushed him in average metres gained. 

The reasoning, valid or not, for Oliver's snub is suddenly clearer. His critics – and we're not talking about Damien Martyn – consistently stated he would be more impactful if he kicked more. 

The All Australian selectors clearly agree.

[tiers 2,840]

Just proves that trying to analyse performances by consulting a plethora of subjective statistics is a waste of time. If you know and understand footy, then you should be able to determine performance based on observation. That's what the umpires use for the Brownlow and they have never picked a dud.

Clayton Oliver's game is based on winning possessions in tight spaces and disposing the ball quickly to advantage. That he does this better than anyone else is not the point. Compared to his peers, he has not yet developed his game to the extent that he not only fulfills his role but he is also a game breaker. Think of how his peers such as Sloan, Selwood, Shiel and Kennedy are often credited with match winning or match turning efforts eg a contested mark, a "captains" goal, a crunching tackle.

That Clayton is so good at winning the ball after only 2 seasons and at 20 bodes well for his development but he is not there yet. It will come and he has the potential, when he builds a tank and learns where to run, to be better than them all. Let's all chill and enjoy his development over the next few years. He is a once in a generation player.

Notwithstanding the above, the selectors make a grievous error by not including him in the favoured 40 on exposed ability and form and on promise. But what do we expect from any agency of the AFL?

 

[daisycutter 29,616]

clarrie has done a bradman. he ended up 1 (one) disposal short of a 2017 average of 30 disposals per game

can we ask for a recount?

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

3 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

clarrie has done a bradman. he ended up 1 (one) disposal short of a 2017 average of 30 disposals per game

can we ask for a recount?

Shame he got unjustly pinged for a lot of real brilliant ones that were too slick for the umpires eyes.

[Redleg 40,925]

Now you are an AFL club and are offered one of Jonas, Roberton, Ross and Clarrie, you select........?

Edited August 30, 2017 by Redleg

[rjay 24,928]

11 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Now you are an AFL club and are offered one of Jonas, Roberton, Ross and Clarrie, you select........?

Is this a trick question 'Red'?

I think it's pretty obvious who the 18 coaches would select, they like giving him (Oliver) votes and the other 17 coaches for some reason that seems to escape the AA selectors like to tag him. Obviously a waste of time for someone who doesn't do any damage with ball in hand.

Maybe they should watch the games and not just go by the metres gained and handball stat sheet.

[Kiss of Death 755]

I am looking forwards to see which mids end up on the bench for the AA's and how they vote in the Brownlow, versus how they match up statistically.