Ah, so you only really saw two quarters then!

Maybe we should pump more games into Lynden Dunn.

I would be much much more comfortable with Dunn and or Frost than this player!

Not an expert like some on here. But watched both games on the weekend and think OMac is the length of the straight ahead of Frost at the moment. 

3 hours ago, McQueen said:

Rubbish thread.

Its called developing our young tall defenders. He had another taste of AFL level footy today and learnt a lot. I'm sure the coaching staff will make the most of his game today.

He isn't ready for afl football. No need to blood more inexperienced, young players when we are already the youngest side in the league 

Pretty ordinary today. Just didn't seem to have any of the confidence he's shown at various times in other games. Except maybe the last quarter. He wasn't reading the ball in the air well (but not many were) and he lacked belief in his disposal.

That said, maybe if his brother didn't always think he was Heath Shaw running off half back he'd be a better player.

I've seen enough positives from Oscar to think he'll be a player long term, especially up the ground when he can run and attack contests. But it wasn't his day today.

1 minute ago, bandicoot said:

He isn't ready for afl football. No need to blood more inexperienced, young players when we are already the youngest side in the league 

There's a need for a younger 3rd tall defender if the match up is there. No point playing Dunn, Garland and Tom McDonald regularly. But it would help if whoever gets picked from those 3 and others had more composure down back to support Oscar. 

17 minutes ago, bandicoot said:

He isn't ready for afl football. No need to blood more inexperienced, young players when we are already the youngest side in the league 

Given the age and capabilities of Dunn and Garland and every possibility they could be traded at years end, I disagree.

Omac needs games and a carefully managed program that gives him VFL and AFL experience will be more beneficial than dumping him after one game.

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Well Im still calling it needs a full year and a half at Casey and even then I don't believe he will be up to it.

I say again He has no pace , He fumbles, he gets easily pushed aside! 

Ok lets see how he goes against the Hawks in a few weeks time! 

Assuming , he is still there! 

I have made an astute judgement. We have no time for project players that will take 5 or so years and still might not make it! 

Cheezus what is it 52 years.??

Gee a win has posters thinking all is hunky dory! 

I reckon our defence is very very shaky!

I woukld play Frost before Mc Donald eassy!

 

You're just looking for someone to fill the Toump void.

Stay tuned folks, another 500 identical posts to follow.

 

I agree with Picket, O. Mac looks out of his depth at the moment. He was awful today against terrible opposition. Fumbled when he had time and space. Was incapable of putting any physical pressure on the opposition. I was crying out for Dunn today.

That's not to say that O.Mac won't make it at AFL level. For years people on here have been bemoaning the fact that we don't give our youngsters time to develop. Here is a classic case where a player should spend time at Casey until he starts dominating at VFL level. As Picket said, O. Mac is probably a year and a half away.

I don't dispute that he could be great in the future however there is no way he is AFL ready. Too much of a liability, especially when pushing for finals. 

I thought he was very average for the first 3 quarters. Plenty of mistakes. Did a couple of better things in the last quarter. I think Frost or Pederson will be needed next week in the backline on Dixon or Westoff

There is definitely some long term promise in OMac although I don't think he played great today and probably isn't quite ready. I don't mind giving him some AFL games to reward him for strong VFL performances. He played well enough to earn a call up in the first place and Plapp speaks highly of him in the Casey match reports.

But the idea of him standing next to Charlie Dixon next week, let alone someone like Buddy, gives me genuine nightmares. Play him as the third tall, drop Garland and bring in a bigger body. Has Frost done enough?

Playing as part of a backline unit, Oscar's team conceded less than 10 goals in a 10 goal win (where the inside 50s were 52 to 45). That suggests that the backline unit performed well. Also, given that the way defend has changed, defending as a team is important and the specific matchups aren't as important. 

In comparison, the last time Dunn played we conceded 20 goals from a similar number of inside 50s, and Dunn was shifted forward towards the end of the game.

The game has changed, and the chemistry of the defence is more important than the ability to defend one on one. Oscar is very mobile, reads the ball very well and generally makes good decision. He positions himself in dangerous spots and helps out his team mates well. 

The Brisbane talls (everyone, regardless of whether or not they were played as forwards today) combined to kick 1 goal. The two permanent tall forwards combined for 13 disposals in total. Oscar was part of that.

This is (predictably) a very poor thread.

2 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

Playing as part of a backline unit, Oscar's team conceded less than 10 goals in a 10 goal win (where the inside 50s were 52 to 45). That suggests that the backline unit performed well. Also, given that the way defend has changed, defending as a team is important and the specific matchups aren't as important. 

In comparison, the last time Dunn played we conceded 20 goals from a similar number of inside 50s, and Dunn was shifted forward towards the end of the game.

The game has changed, and the chemistry of the defence is more important than the ability to defend one on one. Oscar is very mobile, reads the ball very well and generally makes good decision. He positions himself in dangerous spots and helps out his team mates well. 

The Brisbane talls (everyone, regardless of whether or not they were played as forwards today) combined to kick 1 goal. The two permanent tall forwards combined for 13 disposals in total. Oscar was part of that.

This is (predictably) a very poor thread.

What a ridiculous analysis. Measuring performances of an individual (O. Mac V Dunn) based on the collective goals conceded by the team, without noting the merits of the opposition or where the game was played. Secondly, the fact that Brisbane missed so many easy set shots flattered the performance of the backline. Collectively, our back 6 looked second rate against probably the worst team in the comp. The work of Vince and Jones bailed them out quite often.

You're very easy to please.

2 hours ago, Wizza said:

I don't dispute that he could be great in the future however there is no way he is AFL ready. Too much of a liability, especially when pushing for finals. 

We're not pushing for finals. He has to get games at some point. He's winning most one-on-one contests. It's his decision making that needs to improve. He needs to work through this stuff at AFL level.

Too much 'group think' around the thesis that Omac is "not ready". They will keep playing him, because he'll only improve with more game time, just as Oliver and Petracca will continue to improve with more game time.

O.mcd fumbled, was pushed aside, missed several tackles. Today was not good. He was outmarked 4 times by Freeman (one goals 2 behinds and one out on the full).

Against better opposition, O.mcd would be badly exposed. He can develop at Casey but we cannot tolerate such showings when we are on the rise. No sentiment now.

21 minutes ago, mo64 said:

What a ridiculous analysis. Measuring performances of an individual (O. Mac V Dunn) based on the collective goals conceded by the team, without noting the merits of the opposition or where the game was played. Secondly, the fact that Brisbane missed so many easy set shots flattered the performance of the backline. Collectively, our back 6 looked second rate against probably the worst team in the comp. The work of Vince and Jones bailed them out quite often.

You're very easy to please.

So your analysis is that they "looked second rate", despite their ability to stop the opposition kicking goals and that they completely eliminated the influence of their tall forwards? Anything more to offer than just, you know, like, umm, the vibe and stuff?

You can measure the individual, but it is microanalysis in that individual's ability to play their part in the team defence. Oscar, after starting indifferently, played pretty well for the most part. As a 2nd year key defender, he had 18 touches at 80%DE and played his defensive role. He does very well at positioning himself at the moment and helping out team mates like his brother does. Having two rangy key talls to help with team defence is very handy. He's doing exceptionally well in comparison to where he would have been predicted to be in his development.

Edited May 22, 20169 yr by Axis of Bob

That said AOB, Oscar still has a fair way to go in terms of physical maturity and experience (in fact that could be said of at least half of today's team). In Oscar's case, he was still pushed off the ball too easily on occasion and was fumbly but my expectations weren't very high for him this year anyway. He's where I expected him to be at this stage of his career but I think we can expect better from him when he has 50 games under his belt. 

 

The longer this thread goes on, the worse O'Mac seems to have played...

5 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

I also find it strange how Demonland will defend certain players to the hilt (OMac) whilst other players are hated so vehemently (Toumpas).

Draft position must be the answer.

Or the final wretched example of years of recruiting disasters .    No.7's best mate didn't suffer from confidence failure .

1 hour ago, Axis of Bob said:

Playing as part of a backline unit, Oscar's team conceded less than 10 goals in a 10 goal win (where the inside 50s were 52 to 45). That suggests that the backline unit performed well. Also, given that the way defend has changed, defending as a team is important and the specific matchups aren't as important. 

In comparison, the last time Dunn played we conceded 20 goals from a similar number of inside 50s, and Dunn was shifted forward towards the end of the game.

The game has changed, and the chemistry of the defence is more important than the ability to defend one on one. Oscar is very mobile, reads the ball very well and generally makes good decision. He positions himself in dangerous spots and helps out his team mates well. 

The Brisbane talls (everyone, regardless of whether or not they were played as forwards today) combined to kick 1 goal. The two permanent tall forwards combined for 13 disposals in total. Oscar was part of that.

This is (predictably) a very poor thread.

I agree this is somewhat of a poor thread.

I disagree about the goal conceded - Brisbane should've had at least 4 or 5 more goals if they kicked straight, including Oscar's man himself should've had at least 1 more. Brisbane's forward line and the way they moved it in was nothing like St Kilda did at Etihad.

I agree that Oscar seems well suited to zone style defending. He's had 18 disposals and could've used them much better pretty easily - just getting over that stage fright factor would've seen him use them better. 

I think in time he's going to make a nice marking intercept defender, and he will use the ball pretty well. He seems to struggle to hit leading targets but that can be fixed. 

The one big flaw in his game right now I think is his inability to spoil and take the body. First he needs to build his own body to get more confidence. Then he needs time with the coaches and someone like Jetta to learn how to crash through forwards. Aside from that he's just a little slower than you'd like. He's definitely more of an up the ground mobile defender than a closing speed style player.

39 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

O.mcd fumbled, was pushed aside, missed several tackles. Today was not good. He was outmarked 4 times by Freeman (one goals 2 behinds and one out on the full).

Against better opposition, O.mcd would be badly exposed. He can develop at Casey but we cannot tolerate such showings when we are on the rise. No sentiment now.

Dude, i'm pretty sure it was Tom being outmarked by Freeman.  Plus there was that pathetic effort where he allowed himself to be nudged under the ball by a guy half his size and conceded an easy goal... 

 

 

1 minute ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

The longer this thread goes on, the worse O'Mac seems to have played...

Rubbish, he really was ordinary, to those saying he kept his 'direct' opponent quite, BS! We play a zone, hardly any direct opponents matched up 1on1 all game & Oscar did get beaten several times by smaller blokes. He did get better in junk time in the 4th, but it says more about the state of our key backs that he is getting a game than anything else. We are shaky back there this year, and need to improve that group and get better at the zone. His brother wasn't much better today either......... Our opponents really were that bad today. We can play a lot better than we did despite the margin, heaps of room for improvement as Roos & the players said after the game.

And whoever said earlier we are not challenging for finals needs to check the ladder and what our ceo said about this year. We are challenging for the 8 and our backline is still very much a work in progress that is the biggest weakness we have atm. I really like hunt, wagner, salem, t.mac etc at times but jetta is our only consistent performer week in/out at this stage. Its partly the new system, partly inexperience but I hope they work it out ASAP.

Oscar is out of his depth/undersized, dunn out of favor/form, frost still unco, t.mac still working out the system & his role, garland too undersized to be a genuine kbp/not damaging enough. We have issues back there & I agree with picket, oscar looks both slow, weak & is a big work in progress atm. I hope he does make it, we desperately need him too right now!!! But at this stage he looks a year away minimum still.

50 minutes ago, thevil1 said:

 

Rubbish, he really was ordinary, to those saying he kept his 'direct' opponent quite, BS! We play a zone, hardly any direct opponents matched up 1on1 all game & Oscar did get beaten several times by smaller blokes. He did get better in junk time in the 4th, but it says more about the state of our key backs that he is getting a game than anything else. We are shaky back there this year, and need to improve that group and get better at the zone. His brother wasn't much better today either......... Our opponents really were that bad today. We can play a lot better than we did despite the margin, heaps of room for improvement as Roos & the players said after the game.

And whoever said earlier we are not challenging for finals needs to check the ladder and what our ceo said about this year. We are challenging for the 8 and our backline is still very much a work in progress that is the biggest weakness we have atm. I really like hunt, wagner, salem, t.mac etc at times but jetta is our only consistent performer week in/out at this stage. Its partly the new system, partly inexperience but I hope they work it out ASAP.

Oscar is out of his depth/undersized, dunn out of favor/form, frost still unco, t.mac still working out the system & his role, garland too undersized to be a genuine kbp/not damaging enough. We have issues back there & I agree with picket, oscar looks both slow, weak & is a big work in progress atm. I hope he does make it, we desperately need him too right now!!! But at this stage he looks a year away minimum still.

Literally exemplifies my point.