Weeds (Is it time)?

[monoccular 17,575]

I have little doubt  that he will debut this season, but not yet. Let him get some confidence in the VFL first. 

To whoever suggested that VFL isn't a good grounding, how many of today's young Hawks have spent several years at BH learning and maturing?   

Some like Brayshaw, Oliver, and probably Petracca will be ready for an early start but other particularly talks will take time.  

[Return to Glory 8,448]

3 minutes ago, Sigil said:

Oh dear.

Profound

[Bitter but optimistic 22,249]

What the [censored] drugs are you taking picket?  Give the skinny kid a chance ffs!! 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

20 minutes ago, AngryAtCasey said:

He'd have to be in the frame, but would be suprised if it were this early.

 

The whole Casey v Melbourne Reserves argument has been done 1000 times with the same two KEY  questions unable to be adequately answered.

 

1. Where will we find the money to field a reserves team?

2. Where would they play their matches? Noting that playing out of Punt Rd will result in us writting Richmond FC a cheque every time.

Home games at North Port Oval when Port is away. Has to be other alternatives as well. Where there's a will there's a way.

[Tnc dee 15]

32 minutes ago, ENYAW said:

Take a look at the bulldogs with young boyd he is playing in the forward pocket. Frost or Hogan must the CHF and FF position.WEidmann could play a Forward pocket positionand when available Petracca could also take up another forward spot. Dunn would have to be placed back in defence. O'Mac should take up a back pocket position.The days may be over for Watts ,Dawes and Grimes. WE must put trust in up and coming stars.

How can u put watts in this list he's shown form as a third tall forward  and plays a roll well when we deliver it not bomb it in 

Weidmann with get a run soon enough if Dawes doesn't get back and his vfl form is to afl standard

hold him back kick some goals and coming in firing

More excited to see jt and cp5 run around in the red and blue 

[Sigil 1,001]

14 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

Profound

Brevity is the soul of wit eh?

[Return to Glory 8,448]

4 minutes ago, Sigil said:

Brevity is the soul of wit eh?

It does, however, come with the understanding that your view on the matter is clear.

[Nasher 33,617]

1 hour ago, Deecisive said:

Amazing that other teams can bring in their first year draft players and play them from the start, but demons have to run them through the VFL for months? why, if a player is playing reasonable football why not give him a chance to step up.

And for all those who blame watts stunted development on going to early, I doubt it, its a game where players have to step up sooner or later, giving him another 3 or 4 games in the VFL would not have changed that outcome. Some players take-up the challenge and rise to it, others will fail no matter how long you play them in the VFL. We need our young players to get 40-50 games under their belts that cannot before they really start to contribute, they cannot do that quickly if they spend half their year or more in the VFL, when they could be getting senior experience.  Yes we will loose some games, but they will all get better for the run, so will help us climb the ladder next year and the year after instead of 3-4 years time.

What are you on about mate? Heard of Angus Brayshaw or Clayton Oliver? They both came straight out of the draft room and into the seniors. We clearly treat them on a case by case basis. Weideman spending time in the VFL isn't because of some unwritten rule or because we're Melbourne, it's because our coaches think it's the most appropriate course for his stage of development.

I think he'll play sooner rather than later, but I'm in no hurry and am quite content to let him hone his craft at Casey first. If he's good enough he'll be picked.

Ed: spelling. "Weniors", really?

Edited April 3, 2016 by Nasher

[Deecisive 1,709]

New recruits at Hawthorn play in the reserves for years because their senior side is so strong. If they weren't then they would be playing their younger players. Essendon had no trouble beating us with new first year recruits a couple having more disposals than most of our senior, seasoned players.

[DeeSpencer 26,082]

Daniher - 5 games
McCartin - 6 games
Boyd - 9 games
Moore - 9 games

I'm not buying the 'other teams throw their kids in' when talking about key forwards. 

Hogan and Watts have looked dangerous when we've moved the ball. They need to work better with the midfield and rest of the team to find the ball. Certainly Watts isn't perfect and Hogan has a few issues right now but I think they can be fixed. I don't think an 18 year old will be any better. 

We could chuck him in along with those 2 so we've got 3 talls, but are we going to ruck him? (Or Hogan or Watts)? I don't think so. That's asking for an injury. 

Patience for this year, see if he keeps playing well. His time will come but it's not now.

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

No, but it may well be time for another bong PF

[Maldonboy38 6,406]

No to Weideman ... yet.

The Hawthorn model is by far the best. Some of their players are drafted at 18 and don't get a game in the seniors until they are 20 - 22, because they emphasise development over talent. There are 100 players in city and country footy who are tall, can run and take a pack mark. That does NOT immediately transfer over into AFL footy. 

Weideman will play 5-6 games later this year, once Frost, Pederson and Dawes show the lkmits of their usefulness. 

[DeeSpencer 26,082]

2 minutes ago, Deecisive said:

New recruits at Hawthorn play in the reserves for years because their senior side is so strong. If they weren't then they would be playing their younger players. Essendon had no trouble beating us with new first year recruits a couple having more disposals than most of our senior, seasoned players.

1 first year player - Parish (Oliver) 
1 second year player - Langford (Brayshaw)
2 third year players - Merrett, Fantasia (Salem, Hogan)

A couple of mature recruits in their first and second games but they were guys who had been in the AFL or VFL system for years. 

They were older and had played more games that we had. 

We can debate what Lumumba, Garland and Pedersen are giving us but overall we are young enough with the group we have and need to start getting better now, not just throwing more youth in. 

[monoccular 17,575]

11 minutes ago, Deecisive said:

New recruits at Hawthorn play in the reserves for years because their senior side is so strong. If they weren't then they would be playing their younger players. Essendon had no trouble beating us with new first year recruits a couple having more disposals than most of our senior, seasoned players.

Desire, focus >> laziness, complacency.  

[Palace Dees 2,340]

1 hour ago, ENYAW said:

Take a look at the bulldogs with young boyd he is playing in the forward pocket. Frost or Hogan must the CHF and FF position.WEidmann could play a Forward pocket positionand when available Petracca could also take up another forward spot. Dunn would have to be placed back in defence. O'Mac should take up a back pocket position.The days may be over for Watts ,Dawes and Grimes. WE must put trust in up and coming stars.

 

This is why not - the club will know when the time is right.

[Sigil 1,001]

10 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

It does, however, come with the understanding that your view on the matter is clear.

Basically my feeling is it doesn't matter about bringing another forward in. And I don't want to have us put pressure on a talent while he is working out his game.

When our forward entries are as atrocious as they were this weekend Hercules at FF wouldn't help us. 

When we are bombing to Jesse and he has three plus players on him... That's a problem.

When we have four players go for a tackle and the opponent get's the ball out to a man in space. That's a problem.

When we have a huge inside engine and they can't frigging win the ball to advantage (against Essendon!).. That's a problem.

Although in saying all that I really have no idea about football (but love watching it).

I don't think we should throw Weed to the wolves just yet.

[DeeSpencer 26,082]

4 minutes ago, Sigil said:

Basically my feeling is it doesn't matter about bringing another forward in. And I don't want to have us put pressure on a talent while he is working out his game.

When our forward entries are as atrocious as they were this weekend Hercules at FF wouldn't help us. 

When we are bombing to Jesse and he has three plus players on him... That's a problem.

When we have four players go for a tackle and the opponent get's the ball out to a man in space. That's a problem.

When we have a huge inside engine and they can't frigging win the ball to advantage (against Essendon!).. That's a problem.

Although in saying all that I really have no idea about football (but love watching it).

I don't think we should throw Weed to the wolves just yet.

Maybe the only reason why I'd play the Weed would be to have him lead up non stop and maybe Hogan might get the hint. That said, our coaches seem to refuse to play Hogan up the ground anyway.

[Brayshaw Self 847]

It's not just about body size and experience. Weideman would not have the tank to play effectively at AFL level. We looked tired enough on the weekend. Essendon ran us ragged. Adding Weideman would make it even worse.

[Deecisive 1,709]

11 minutes ago, Brayshaw Self said:

It's not just about body size and experience. Weideman would not have the tank to play effectively at AFL level. We looked tired enough on the weekend. Essendon ran us ragged. Adding Weideman would make it even worse.

We had quite a few players who supposedly had a tank but did not use it. Weideman would be playing most of the game wide on the flank out of hogans way, being tall enough that the opposition would need to keep him covered so keep another opposition player out of hogans way.  Being Tall he also provides another competent marking option should everyone go to Hogan, He has proven he can lead and kick goals, so he knows enough of the basics to be serviceable.

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

1 hour ago, ENYAW said:

Take a look at the bulldogs with young boyd he is playing in the forward pocket. Frost or Hogan must the CHF and FF position.WEidmann could play a Forward pocket positionand when available Petracca could also take up another forward spot. Dunn would have to be placed back in defence. O'Mac should take up a back pocket position.The days may be over for Watts ,Dawes and Grimes. WE must put trust in up and coming stars.

Yes, Parish thought it was bloody Xmas playing us yesterday and nobody touched him. Makes you long for the old days.

[praha 11,240]

We've waited 52 years. What's another few weeks.

No rush.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,088]

We have a perfectly good CHF.  The problem is that we're playing him at FF and ruining his games by making him sit in the square and lobbing high balls onto his head.  What we need to do is let Hogan play at CHF where he belongs and put the resting/spare ruck in at FF, whether that's Pedersen, Frost, Watts or King I know not.  Hogan's strength is his mobility, not his power marking.  We need to give him the freedom to run his man into the ground.  Weideman is a long-term prospect, not a quick fix for this season. 

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

On 4/3/2016 at 10:04 PM, RalphiusMaximus said:

We have a perfectly good CHF.  The problem is that we're playing him at FF and ruining his games by making him sit in the square and lobbing high balls onto his head.  What we need to do is let Hogan play at CHF where he belongs and put the resting/spare ruck in at FF, whether that's Pedersen, Frost, Watts or King I know not.  Hogan's strength is his mobility, not his power marking.  We need to give him the freedom to run his man into the ground.  Weideman is a long-term prospect, not a quick fix for this season. 

Totally agree, and i think it will help his confidence a lot to simplify his role, just get him to lead hard all day and take as many marks as he can, it wouldn't be easy being a bloke with huge media speculation, only in his second year and having the pressure of basically having to kick 50% of the scores of the side for us to win, gotta feel for him a bit in that sense, but his sooky attitude doesn't help. 

I'd probably just play one of Frost or Pedo out of full forward and get Hogan up the ground

[rjay 25,093]

7 hours ago, Redleg said:

We killed Watts, lets also kill this kid because of a poor game by the club.

We have moved on from this type of over reaction thankfully.

Let him find his feet and if he earns a game then play him.

Weideman will be played when he's ready, a few good games and he will be knocking on the door for selection. He will earn his place and I'm sure the FD will know if and when he's capable of handling the cut & thrust of AFL football.

We can't rush him in just because of a poor showing by the club on Saturday and when he's ready we can't not play him because of Jack Watts...

[rjay 25,093]

3 hours ago, Deecisive said:

New recruits at Hawthorn play in the reserves for years because their senior side is so strong. If they weren't then they would be playing their younger players. Essendon had no trouble beating us with new first year recruits a couple having more disposals than most of our senior, seasoned players.

Most don't at all, they did in the days of Tucky and Dipper but most of their recruits over the last couple of years come straight into the team. Their big recruits over the last few years have come from other clubs and others like Hartung play games early in their careers with the Hawks.

There have been a few depth players who seem to be a Box Hill forever but they usually move on after a while.