Was talking to a 50 year old Essendon supporter today and obviously we got talking about the whole WADA situation. Anyways to cut story short he mentioned that Mlebourne was his 2nd favourite team and he'll buy a membership for us this year and has completely lost faith in his club.

But one thing he raved on about was how good David Schwarz was good back in his hey day when he was in full flight especially in 1994. He said he rated him above Wayne Carey by a length because of his speed and Ariel work in the air.

I started supporting the dees in 1998 when I moved to Australia as an 8 year and so I missed all of his best work, so just wanted to know how good really was the Ox? Is it that true that if it wasn't for injury he would have been on par with Carey?

In 1994 he was that good

in 1995 during preseason i shed a tear when he did the knee

The Dream was over...

Ox was a dam good player later but he lost 20% of his pace

This is all you need to know mate.  He was my favourite player before the Wiz took that mantle.  The bloke was almost unstoppable in 1994 and, while I might be biased, he could have been on par with Carey if his knees held up.  Unbelievable agility, great pair of hands, high footy IQ and a great kick for goal.  The bloke had it all.

Edit - Watch his goal from around the 4:35 mark.  It's vintage Ox.

Edited March 7, 20169 yr by Wiseblood

In 1994, especially the finals series, he was THE most exciting Demon I had ever watched and have ever watched - and I started watching them in the mid 1950s when we were totally dominant. 

Like SWYL my eye teared up with the news from the Junction Oval.  

IMMHO he would have become the dominant player of his era....yes, eclipsing Carey. 

17 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Was talking to a 50 year old Essendon supporter today and obviously we got talking about the whole WADA situation. Anyways to cut story short he mentioned that Mlebourne was his 2nd favourite team and he'll buy a membership for us this year and has completely lost faith in his club.

But one thing he raved on about was how good David Schwarz was good back in his hey day when he was in full flight especially in 1994. He said he rated him above Wayne Carey by a length because of his speed and Ariel work in the air.

I started supporting the dees in 1998 when I moved to Australia as an 8 year and so I missed all of his best work, so just wanted to know how good really was the Ox? Is it that true that if it wasn't for injury he would have been on par with Carey?

Geez i didnt take you for being so young DD. in 94 Schwarz was absolutely in the conversation with Carey. Carey was considered slightly better mainly because he had already had a couple of years of great footy. Schwarz had looked ok in 93 but really 94 was when he tore the comp a new one. always a hard discussion being biased toward the ox but i believe schwarz had a higher ceiling than carey for the exact reasons your essendon mate said. he was  more athletic than carey and had more of a burst of speed. a bit more 'X factor' where Carey was more pure strength. my personal opinion is that if he hadnt been injured then the conversation wouldve ended up like a 'dunstall V Lockett' discussion with opinions based on individuals prefferred style of play. Both wouldve been superstars and the ox's highlights package wouldve been a bit flashier though equivalent in his ability to take games by the scruff .

The ox was a completely different player when he returned in 98. those early games that season he looked like a lumbering giant and relied on his strength. His speed and aerial ability was gone but could still take a great contested mark and was part of our best forward line ive seen.

Where are you from originally by the way, DD?

Edited March 7, 20169 yr by Munga

If the Ox hadn't done those 3 knee injuries The MFC would have won more than one Flag during his career. 

Neil Balme would have been coach for a lot longer!

he was incredible in '94

He was certainly touted an equal talent to Carey at the time and post '94 finals series he was one of the hottest properties in the AFL. Never would have had the commitment and leadership ability of Carey but would have been an exciting ride if he didn't do 3 knees. 

Cheers for the clip Wise I had seen that one before and it is breathtaking because when I started to first watch him play it was when he was that big solid Ox like player that never showed any of those 94 talents unfortunately.

Also a great write up Munga thanks for that and to answer your question I was born in the tropical paradise of Fiji. I was hooked very very easy in supporting the dees and came at the right time (straight after 1997 and into a prelim) during the start of the Daniher era. Unfortunately I never got to see another player in Allan Jackovich play at all.. I get jealous hearing about him when he was on full song.

Another question is because Schwarz was such a star forward I am interested to hear why maybe the club hasn't gotten him down to do some part time mentoring role with Jesse Hogan and even Jack Watts maybe? 

8 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

If the Ox hadn't done those 3 knee injuries The MFC would have won more than one Flag during his career. 

Neil Balme would have been coach for a lot longer!

he was incredible in '94

I think I remember come 1995 we lost the Ox, GLyon, Tingay, Jackovich, Glen Lovett and Charles all in the first half of the next season so that the Carlton we had smashed in 94 stepped up in 95! Gee with a dose of injury luck we would have snaffled one or two flags in the 90's, 1990 and 1995 for instance and 1998 irks me, we smashed The Crows but they got up to win somehow? 

30 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Was talking to a 50 year old Essendon supporter today and obviously we got talking about the whole WADA situation. Anyways to cut story short he mentioned that Mlebourne was his 2nd favourite team and he'll buy a membership for us this year and has completely lost faith in his club.

But one thing he raved on about was how good David Schwarz was good back in his hey day when he was in full flight especially in 1994. He said he rated him above Wayne Carey by a length because of his speed and Ariel work in the air.

I started supporting the dees in 1998 when I moved to Australia as an 8 year and so I missed all of his best work, so just wanted to know how good really was the Ox? Is it that true that if it wasn't for injury he would have been on par with Carey?

yes,  it took him a couple of seasons to hit his straps with confidence,  but when he did,  he tore most clubs a new one,  in each half...  2 changes of shorts for the opposing clubs per game.

unfortunately he only was at that level for maybe 2 seasons before injury?

 

Schwarta was on his way to rewriting record books,  & dethroning the King.

He was the best young talent I ever saw .

Could have been as good if not better than Carey.had a huge leap and could turn players inside out with his smarts.

I was gutted when he did his first knee, and shattered when he did it again , he was going to be a genuine AA+ Superstar.

48 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

 

Edit - Watch his goal from around the 4:35 mark.  It's vintage Ox.

Beat me to it Wise, those three weeks (and indeed his entire '94 season) were just exhilarating, took more marks than anyone else that year (including Carey) and finished with 60 goals from CHF. 

Also worth reading this article, which - like the YouTube clip - is the work of Age journalist and MFC supporter Jesse Hogan, who's fighting for his life in hospital after a stroke.

What I like about the article, and the short clip above it which features Jesse, is that he basically says he was a star-struck 6 y.o Demon fan in 1994 who thought Schwarz a superstar, and when he grew up and became a journo and checked with the experts they confirmed it was so. 

I've still got his number on my jumper. 

33 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

In 1994 he was that good

in 1995 during preseason i shed a tear when he did the knee

I remember exactly where I was when I heard the news. It was the cruellest of cruel pre-seasons.

6 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

I think I remember come 1995 we lost the Ox, GLyon, Tingay, Jackovich, Glen Lovett and Charles all in the first half of the next season so that the Carlton we had smashed in 94 stepped up in 95! Gee with a dose of injury luck we would have snaffled one or two flags in the 90's, 1990 and 1995 for instance and 1998 irks me, we smashed The Crows but they got up to win somehow? 

All Nightmares Earl

all of them...!

Robbie Flower, the Ox, the Wiz and the Walpiri Warrior. Four best talents I've seen at the Dees. All amazing in differing ways.

Looking forward to seeing Hogan become the best KPF in the comp.

Strange reading a thread where everyone is in unanimous agreement. 

30 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Was talking to a 50 year old Essendon supporter today and obviously we got talking about the whole WADA situation. Anyways to cut story short he mentioned that Mlebourne was his 2nd favourite team and he'll buy a membership for us this year and has completely lost faith in his club.

But one thing he raved on about was how good David Schwarz was good back in his hey day when he was in full flight especially in 1994. He said he rated him above Wayne Carey by a length because of his speed and Ariel work in the air.

I started supporting the dees in 1998 when I moved to Australia as an 8 year and so I missed all of his best work, so just wanted to know how good really was the Ox? Is it that true that if it wasn't for injury he would have been on par with Carey?

yes,  it took him a couple of seasons to hit his straps with confidence,  but when he did,  he tore most clubs a new one,  in each half...  2 changes of shorts for the opposing clubs per game.

unfortunately he only was at that level for maybe 2 seasons before injury?

 

Schwarta was on his way to rewriting record books,  & dethroning the King.

55 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

This is all you need to know mate.  He was my favourite player before the Wiz took that mantle.  The bloke was almost unstoppable in 1994 and, while I might be biased, he could have been on par with Carey if his knees held up.  Unbelievable agility, great pair of hands, high footy IQ and a great kick for goal.  The bloke had it all.

Edit - Watch his goal from around the 4:35 mark.  It's vintage Ox.

 

....  he's better than Nureyev !

 

thanks for that action,   geez i miss this footy.     &  the humerous commentators.  nothing too serious about them.  Only the game & its stars.

 

31 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

I think I remember come 1995 we lost the Ox, GLyon, Tingay, Jackovich, Glen Lovett and Charles all in the first half of the next season so that the Carlton we had smashed in 94 stepped up in 95! Gee with a dose of injury luck we would have snaffled one or two flags in the 90's, 1990 and 1995 for instance and 1998 irks me, we smashed The Crows but they got up to win somehow? 

also Prymke IIRC?  t

 

Edited March 7, 20169 yr by dee-luded

23 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Robbie Flower, the Ox, the Wiz and the Walpiri Warrior. Four best talents I've seen at the Dees. All amazing in differing ways.

Looking forward to seeing Hogan become the best KPF in the comp.

You left out Jacka.

easily makes that list.

Just watched those highlights of The Ox

that all happened in 3 consecutive weeks!

and then he was concussed right at the end...

(The Curse?...)

Could have been one of the best players ever if not for his injuries, still a bloody good player even with them! 

Dazzle if you can get your hands on a VHS called Demon Attack '94 (I think this was the title) do yourself a favour and get a copy. I haven't watched it for years but remember Schwarz features heavily. 

Yes, he was that good. God, it was a joy to watch the mighty Demons with Schwarta up one end and Neita down the other. Neitz was rated by Carey as the best CHB back he'd played on, by the way, in spite of the myth that grew up around G. Jakovic and Carey. (Jakovic a damn fine player it must be said.)

34 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

He was the best young talent I ever saw .

Could have been as good if not better than Carey.had a huge leap and could turn players inside out with his smarts.

I was gutted when he did his first knee, and shattered when he did it again , he was going to be a genuine AA+ Superstar.

Like many others, I was sitting with my boys in the Southern Stand pocket when David did his knee the second time. They were playing the Swans and if my memory is correct, the ball came down to centre half forward and Ox went to meet the ball and went to turn or twist toward goal in loose soil and his knee and body just buckled. There was a feeling of horror, a feeling of sickness in the pit of the stomach, and a feeling of devastation and gloom. It was the worst I ever have felt at a match watching a serious injury.  I can vividly see him on the ground writhing in pain as team mates went to his aid and trainers rushed to him. To see him carried off the ground on a stretcher was heartbreaking. At that moment, I felt that Ox's career was over. At that point in time the match and the result lost all significance. We were watching the end of a brilliant career that promised so much more. On a positive note , it had been thrilling to have watched the Ox in those early days jumping over packs in a cavalier daredevil fashion without any concern for his personal safety. He was a risk taker and had the exuberance of youth that seemed to thumb its nose at his opponents. He was an excitement machine but it was likely watching an acrobat at the circus. One sat and watched with bated breath every time he leapt over an opponent or pack. Fortunately, he came back, but for me it was watching a different player.  The candle still flickered but it was a poor imitation of what we had witnessed before he broke down.

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Just watched those highlights of The Ox

that all happened in 3 consecutive weeks!

and then he was concussed right at the end...

(The Curse?...)

The orthopaedic surgeon who did the ridiculous patellar tendon knee repair which fell apart. That operation is never done now for footballers and was never any good.