Irrelevant. Howe finished so highly because he undeservedly played every game and the Bluey rewards people that play a lot of games

Played maybe 2 or 3 good games all season

Good point. The browlow is also skewed. Rewards those that play most games

Sarcasm is you couldn't detect

Looking at the trade I think the only winner (so far) on paper is Port Adelaide.

Adelaide- Pick 32 for Seedsman is about right for his output (he has done less than Melksham and we paid pick 25). Break even

Collingwood- Seedsman and Kennedy are fringe 22 for them and pick 68 is steak knives. Break even.

Melbourne- Toumpas obviously struggled and Howe is an inconsistent player. Break even.

Port- To gain Toumpas for a swap of pick 29 and 32 essentially is a win (though if Toumpas struggles on it's a loss). Slight win

Really no point getting upset about it as it is pretty much spot on for the players output.

Is that you Josh?

You just keep putting up nothing of value and fixate on the negatives Oli, this place would be lost without you.

It'll be interesting to see if we do take the plunge on a key forward (Weideman) after everything Roos has said about drafting them early.

I think perhaps sometimes we hang too much on statements like this. It raises a few issues.

Firstly drafting decisions should not be made by the coach- the club invests a lot of resources getting this right, the coach will be involved, but rarely (as history has shown) are they necessarily the best judges of junior talent.

Secondly as the club has publicly announced its now Goodwin's list- Roos is going to take a back seat.

Finally the statement isn't an all or nothing proposition. If Roos was ever in the position (and he never was) of having a very early pick and an elite KPP like a Jesse Hogan or Nick Riewoldt or Jarryd Roughead were available we cannot assume he would have overlooked them. I think his comments more reflect the price paid for guys like Lucas Cook or Fergus Watts or any number of KPP that were reasonable junior KPP, but not dominant.

Now the question is what bracket the club see Weideman as a KPP?

Shipping out a Pick 4 after three injury interrupted seasons in exchange for pick 50 has the potential to be an outrageously poor decision. It's a massive gamble to be showing him the door this quickly for peanuts.

In fact if there was any way to make the Toumpas over Wines decision worse, it is giving Toumpas the flick only to then watch him blossom at another club. Port fans can not believe their luck at the moment. Pick 50 for a half unwrapped top 10 talent. We'll wait and see how that one pans out, though the thought of Wines and Toumpas running around together for another side in September is almost too funny to actually be disturbing. The whole Toumpas fiasco has been so ridiculous and yet so, so Melbourne.

If we look back in a couple of years on this period as coming out winners then I'll tip my hat to Mahoney cause he should rightly be lauded a master. At the moment, it takes some ingenuity to be looking at this as all sunshine and lollipops. Fortunately we didn't recruit Bastinac otherwise I may have had to switch off entirely and just follow the rugby.

That said, as much as we may have been bent over the trade table, the squad can certainly withstand the losses of Howe and Toumpas whilst continuing to move forward at an accelerated rate. The Howe move especially had to get done for all parties. The gains of Melksham, Kennedy and Bugg all have the potential to become mainstays. Melksham and Kennedy nominated the MFC as their destination. If they are buying in to what the club is trying to do and where it wants to get to, they get my unqualified support.

Pman again it ain't just Mahoney. If the coaches wanted to keep Jimmy T or Howe they would still be in the list. If Our awesome development coach saw him developing he would still be here, if Taylor and co didn't think they could get some extra value for those picks (maybe I'm just hoping with this part) then they would both still be with us.

Or maybe PJ after how many years has yet to fix this part of the club up as yet and we still have idiots running our list management. While it has been underwhelming maybe people's expectations were to high to begin with...

Picks 29, 43 and 61 give us 1166 points which takes us over 1161 points which is pick 14 - which I believe Sydney are looking to on trade for one of their Academy players.

Could this be the strategy?

50 to GWS for Bugg, 29, 43, 61 to Sydney for 14.

Lol as if Sydney would go through that for 5 extra points. Possible though. Don't you just wish Mahony read Demonland?

It came up early in the period that Freo may be interested in Jack Watts if they couldnt get a deal for McCartney from GWS. With a deal with GWS now looking unlikely will Jack's name come up again?

It came up early in the period that Freo may be interested in Jack Watts if they couldnt get a deal for McCartney from GWS. With a deal with GWS now looking unlikely will Jack's name come up again?

To answer that Id be thinking :

What might we get for him

and what could/would we use it for

If that pans out to be a better 'fit' for our team going forward then Id be wanting the club to consider it, for sure.

Picks 29, 43 and 61 give us 1166 points which takes us over 1161 points which is pick 14 - which I believe Sydney are looking to on trade for one of their Academy players.

Could this be the strategy?

50 to GWS for Bugg, 29, 43, 61 to Sydney for 14.

nevermind. We have picks 64 and 46. We only have 1095 points

100% guarantee he was very much in the frame for that pick. Quayle is correct.

If that is the case, which I am extremely skeptical on, then we may as well blow up the club.

I cannot fathom a situation where Viney would let that happen. If reports are true he had a blue with Neeld over the Toumpas/Wines fiasco - if it was a Kennedy/Wines decision there would have been blood on the floor.

What really hurts is that once again we have [censored] up a top 10 pick.

They should just stop giving them to us. Or better still we should stop being crap at football so we stop getting them.

Oh and also that spud Henderson is apparently worth more than Howe. I die.

I disagree. We're much better at it. Last time we traded out a pick 4 we get pick 88. Now we've got pick 29 or 50 (depending on what you choose to believe). Either way, in percentage terms that's a massive improvement.

Seriously, who cares? Players with limitations getting traded back and forth. I find it all interesting but am quite dispassionate about it.

nevermind. We have picks 64 and 46. We only have 1095 points

Reading further apparently te swans have a 20% discount which takes 1161 down to 929 which 1095 covers.

To be honest this points system confuses me but I'm just trying to work out what we can possibly get in return for the picks we currently have.

It came up early in the period that Freo may be interested in Jack Watts if they couldnt get a deal for McCartney from GWS. With a deal with GWS now looking unlikely will Jack's name come up again?

Freo aren't interested in trading players, so pick 22 is the only thing that could be close to getting a trade done. I'd rather keep Watts than pick 22.

Yeah, Howe is uselss, finished 9th in our b&f. Where did Kennedy finish in Collingwoods ?

ha! Where did he finish in the demonland votes? 19th, that's where. Roosy had him pushed up about 10 spots for trade value. If you don't believe me just use your memory banks to recall how many games he had an impact in.

Other than combining a player with picks, I can't now see how we can get pick 3.

For example Grimes and 6 might get you 3.

If our team has their eye's fixed on a draftee at 3, who may not be available at 6, let's back them in.

I'm guessing we felt pressured into the mega deal. The extra effort of dealing Howe and Toumpas separately would've netted a better result

I'm seriously doubting they felt pressured into the mega deal, because Collingwood and Melbourne couldn't get the deal done they looked to other suitors and thankfully Port and Adelaide came to the party with picks. Besides Toumpas and Seedsman were SA bound.

Very underwhelming trade period, but the whinging about this deal is over the top.

.......

It was an average deal for average players.

It's not over yet DA. Fair deal IMO despite average players for average picks. There might be something else coming. But agree about the whinging on this deal which is fair. I see this deal as preparations for other prospect(s).

Are we fully committed to using pick 25 (vs. pick 29) for Melksham? According to this morning's paper, it still adopts the wording of 'a second round pick' suggesting that we can utilise 29 and retain 25. Also, I cannot see why we cannot use 50 to get Bugg and either utilise 25 in the draft, use it on another player such as Plowman or Tomlinson (both of whom seem to be up for grabs), or leveraging/packaging it up to gain another first round pick!

Today is a Howe free and Toumpas free day.

Life's good.

Interesting that on the AFL website, when people were asked to nominate the winner of the Mega-trade between the Dees, Crows, PA and the Pies, we were voted 13% (a distant last).

If we ran society based on votes on the AFL website, Eddie McGuire would be President of Australia. And Adam Goodes would have his citizenship cancelled.

Trade periods are generally always underwhelming and it's only because over the last few seasons we've had no choice but to chase and add immediate talent and experience to our side. Vince, Tyson, Cross etc.

Clearly we're still a year or two away from being able to attract top-end developed talent, (stars) from other clubs and all this trade period says to me is exactly that. Rather than hit what is supposedly a shallow draft with selections ranging from second-rounders to fourth-rounders, we've gone the further step and brought in Melksham, Kennedy and soon to be Bugg.

All players are further advanced, are harder bodies and will contribute more immediately than any of the draft picks we've had to give up so far. Not only that, but Melksham and Kennedy are both previous top 20 picks.

Do posters continually ignore that? Both have enormous scope for improvement.

When you've got players like Treloar and Dangerfield moving clubs and so much talk surrounding us targeting a 'big nam' player, it obviously obscures people's views of what is a successful trade period and what isn't.

So far we've been going our business and we're improving our list. Little by little.

Like others I'm hoping we can improve our draft position by trading a bundle of picks. Not sure how it would look. But it makes sense for us to nail the draft again with that first pick and if we can get closer to the top 5 then it's happy days.

The club are clearly confident that our young core are really building and developing the right way. There will be a star or two born from the core.

Next year we'll see natural improvement from Brayshaw, Hogan, Salem, Viney, Tyson, Vandenberg and Gawn.

If we can stay pretty injury free next year, we're not going to see anywhere near the form slumps we did this season. Melksham, Kennedy and Bugg will contribute to that.

Let's bring Dion home next year and perhaps try for another serious talent. We'll be a much more attractive destination.

Until then, let's ride the roller-coaster.

When you've got players like Treloar and Dangerfield moving clubs and so much talk surrounding us targeting a 'big nam' player, it obviously obscures people's views of what is a successful trade period and what isn't.

It's so childish around here at the moment, this attitude of 'waaa why not us, we want a Dangerfield' do people realise that these clubs don't just get handed these players? They have had to pay through the nose for them. We on the other hand have got ordinary players at an ordinary cost. Who's to say Treloar/Dangerfield won't have injury problems their whole careers while the first round draft picks that were given up for them may eventually go on to provide much greater value?

ha! Where did he finish in the demonland votes? 19th, that's where. Roosy had him pushed up about 10 spots for trade value. If you don't believe me just use your memory banks to recall how many games he had an impact in.

You are a bit old to believe in fairytales C&B, Demonland votes...Seriously ? ..the same Demonland votes that had Toumpas finish above Dunn

I do think that what's at play here is the club is slowly but surely cutting ties with bad draft choices and locker room cancers from the Bailey and Neeld eras.

You can lose players and actually gain from that without receiving something tangible in return. I think it was pretty obvious that Melbourne just didn't really want to keep Howe. He seems like a hot-head bogan that's ahead of himself. Toump was just a bad draft pick and needs a fresh start.

What ever happened to the idea of Zac Jones coming home to join his Bro at the Demons - Thought it was a monty?

I do think that what's at play here is the club is slowly but surely cutting ties with bad draft choices and locker room cancers from the Bailey and Neeld eras.

You can lose players and actually gain from that without receiving something tangible in return. I think it was pretty obvious that Melbourne just didn't really want to keep Howe. He seems like a hot-head bogan that's ahead of himself. Toump was just a bad draft pick and needs a fresh start.

Agree wholeheartedly.

Compare the characters and personality qualites of Howe and Frawley to even Stretch and ANB and you can see what the club are trying to build.

A club of substance. A core group of players who have a clue and genuinely care.