A clear look at what we HAVE and what we NEED

[Young Blood 2,634]

Apologies if this has already be done to death. But I thought I'd set out the team we currently have for next year now that players have been delisted.

I guess for most of you this will be a bit obvious but doing this for my own benefit to wrap my head around the players we have and where we need more depth/talent to continue to improve. I understand more players will go and be traded etc. But this is IMO our most competitive side of current players. I would like players like Garland, Lumbumba, Pederson to be pushed out by younger guys throughout the season. Let me know who I have left out

B Frost Dunn (V) Garland

(22) (28) (27)

HB Salem T. McDonald Jetta

(20) (23) (25)

C Tyson Viney Brayshaw

(22) (22) (19)

HF Pettracca Pederson AVB ®

(19) (28) (23)

F Kent Hogan Garlett

(21) (20) (26)

Fol Gawn Vince N. Jones:

(23) (29) (27)

Int Watts Harmes ® Howe Stretch

(24) (19) (25) (19)

Depth:

Backline: Lumumba (28) Grimes (25) Terlich (25) O. Mcdonald (19) White (19) ®

Midfield/wing: Michie (23) M. Jones (27) Trengove (24) ANB (19)

Forward: Dawes (27) JKH (20) Newton (23) Hunt (20)

Ruck: Spencer (25) King (20) ®

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So its clear that the team needs some depth at each position

- Regardless of whether Howe and Garland are leaving we do need another backman. Need another steady player to go alongside Frost, White and O'mac while they develop.

- Obviously we need another ball winning midfielder to add to our depth. I think with the boost of Petracca and development of Brayshaw, ANB and AVB the midfield will be better but we need some more steady players to back them up. Would be good to have another younger player pushing the midfield. I would like to see Jones and Vince take on different roles next year where they carry less burden and are able to move away from their tags. Another player to keep knocking on the door with Michie would be terrific.

- As stated by others a marking forward who could go into the Ruck in a pinch. I think Pederson could fill this void until we find someone. But a younger tall would be great.

Now who could fill these gaps?

Edited September 21, 2015 by mongrel

[Biffen 12,947]

One and half bottles of red and some herbs.

I need dinner but cant think of what to cook.

[Chris 2,892]

One and half bottles of red and some herbs.

I need dinner but cant think of what to cook.

With the herbs it would need to be a lot wouldn't it?

On what we need, the backline are getting old so a new back or two wouldn't go astray.

[93dee 104]

One and half bottles of red and some herbs.

I need dinner but cant think of what to cook.

smoke the herbs then drink the wine.

[Biffen 12,947]

smoke the herbs then drink the wine.

Done.

Thanks for the tip.

Still v.v.v.hungry.

[radar 1,865]

Great effort R n B.

You've assumed Petracca is going to make it like Brayshaw. I hope so too and that your selection is vindicated. But we are Melbourne.

We need pace, pace and more pace. Against GWS we looked slow and static.

Another big forward option so we are not one dimensional with Jesse.

Someone like - er - Mitch Clarke.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,095]

Jesse White! Seriously!

But actually seriously, what we have is a bunch of solid ball-winners who are pretty much one-paced and aren't the best kicks. We need to see an injection of pace and quality kicking. The talk of us making a play for Hamish Hartlett directly impacts this. He really is exactly what we need, even if I dispute the price people are willing to pay for him. There are also a couple of kids in the draft who fit the bill if we can't get a trade done (or we can enjoy the fantasy world where we lure Treloar and Prestia to the club).

I think more key position talls is not really a priority. If they are clearly the best available at the time then certainly take them, but I'd rather see us getting more mids right now, then maybe a project ruck to spend five years working on.

[Henrietta Lumbago 331]

Apologies if this has already be done to death. But I thought I'd set out the team we currently have for next year now that players have been delisted.

I guess for most of you this will be a bit obvious but doing this for my own benefit to wrap my head around the players we have and where we need more depth/talent to continue to improve. I understand more players will go and be traded etc. But this is IMO our most competitive side of current players. I would like players like Garland, Lumbumba, Pederson to be pushed out by younger guys throughout the season. Let me know who I have left out

B Frost Dunn (V) Garland

(22) (28) (27)

HB Salem T. McDonald Jetta

(20) (23) (25)

C Tyson Viney Brayshaw

(22) (22) (19)

HF Pettracca Pederson AVB ®

(19) (28) (23)

F Kent Hogan Garlett

(21) (20) (26)

Fol Gawn Vince N. Jones:

(23) (29) (27)

Int Watts Harmes ® Howe Stretch

(24) (19) (25) (19)

Depth:

Backline: Lumumba (28) Grimes (25) Terlich (25) O. Mcdonald (19) White (19) ®

Midfield/wing: Michie (23) M. Jones (27) Trengove (24) ANB (19)

Forward: Dawes (27) JKH (20) Newton (23) Hunt (20)

Ruck: Spencer (25) King (20) ®

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So its clear that the team needs some depth at each position

- Regardless of whether Howe and Garland are leaving we do need another backman. Need another steady player to go alongside Frost, White and O'mac while they develop.

- Obviously we need another ball winning midfielder to add to our depth. I think with the boost of Petracca and development of Brayshaw, ANB and AVB the midfield will be better but we need some more steady players to back them up. Would be good to have another younger player pushing the midfield. I would like to see Jones and Vince take on different roles next year where they carry less burden and are able to move away from their tags. Another player to keep knocking on the door with Michie would be terrific.

- As stated by others a marking forward who could go into the Ruck in a pinch. I think Pederson could fill this void until we find someone. But a younger tall would be great.

Now who could fill these gaps?

Swap Lumumba for Garland, swap Trengove(fit) for Watts, find replacements for Stretch and Harmes who aren't up to it ATM, trade Howe Edited September 21, 2015 by Henrietta Lumbago

[ignition. 1,477]

Trade Dunn and Dawes, they will be of a reasonable value to any other club in their premiership window.

Acquire at least two quality midfielders or up coming yougsters through free agency or trade. These include Dangerfield, S Selwood, Prestia, Bennell, Treloar, Aish, Bell, T Mitchell, B Jack, Z Jones (clearly some are very hard to acquire).

Gold Coast, GWS, and Sydney (with their trade restrictions) should be of easier pickings.

The loss of Dunn should be covered by Frost, Garland (if retained) and get more games into O Mac.

Dawes' role can easily be covered by Pedersen at no expense.

Edited September 21, 2015 by ignition.

[Young Blood 2,634]

Swap Lumumba for Garland, swap Trengove(fit) for Watts, find replacements for Stretch and Harmes who aren't up to it ATM.

Yeah like I said the lineup is just who I think is currenlty our strongest team. I was more after suggestions of who the side can bring in with the roster spots we now have.

Trade Dunn and Dawes, they will be of a reasonable value to any other club in their premiership window.

Acquire at least two quality midfielders or up coming yougsters through free agency or trade. These include Dangerfield, S Selwood, Prestia, Bennell, Treloar, Aish, Bell, T Mitchell, B Jack, Z Jones (clearly some are very hard to acquire).

Gold Coast, GWS, and Sydney (with their trade restrictions) should be of easier pickings.

The loss of Dunn should be covered by Frost, Garland (if retained) and get more games into O Mac.

Dawes' role can easily be covered by Pedersen at no expense.

Not sure who in the Premiership window would look at Dawes but I agree might be worth trading in a package.

I really don't think we should just be putting Dunn on the trade table straight up. Frost has played three OK games for us. He looks exciting and has potential but to take out our most steady backman? We still want to win games next year. Frost and O-Mac will get there opportunities. Its important not to rush those guys in. O-Mac will take a bit longer to develop then Brayshaw etc. Plus I put V next to Dunn's name because he will be a Veteran for the club next year meaning he along with the Rookies doesn't count in our list of 38 players. Handy for picking up more players.

[Young Blood 2,634]

I guess what I am trying to do with this post is show that we are now seeing a team that is building a good core group of players.

We no longer have an obvious group of dead weight type players. We can really build on the improved list we have this year.

Promising to see the list we have currently and that we can bring more depth and talent to the club.

[Chris 2,892]

FB Jetta Dunn Garland

HB Salem T McDonald Lumumba

C Vince Brayshaw Tyson

HF Petracca Hogan Kent

FF Garlett Frost Harmes

Fol Gawn N Jones Viney

Int Watts Vandenberg Pedersen Stretch

Average Age 23.3

Average Games 73.4

Back Line

Ave Age 25.2

Ave Games 115.2

Fol (includes wing)

Ave Age 23.5

Ave Games 88.7

Fwd

Ave Age 21.2

Ave Games 34.7

Int

Ave Age 23.5

Ave Games 45.8

Games Backline Fol Fwd Int total

0-50 1 4 5 2 12

51-100 2 0 0 1 3

101-150 1 0 1 1 3

151-200 1 1 0 0 2

200+ 1 1 0 0 2

22

This shows the backline is out of proportion ot the rest of the team in terms of age. Once our mids and forwards are flying in a few years the backs will be getting old. With the exception of O Mac and maybe Frost (if he isn't forward) we don't seem to have many young backs coming through. Something I think we need to address in the next year or two.

Right now we need another tall forward to help Jesse. This will allow frost to go back, helping with the issue above, and Pederson is getting on a bit and needs a replacement in the wings.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Chris

[Middymalt 244]

I would like Dunn to finish at mfc been a great servant through rough years.

[Chris 2,892]

This is how Hawthorn lined up on the weekend.

FB Stratton Lake Frawley

HB Birchall Gibson Burgoyne

C Hill Mitchell Shiels

HF Rioli Schoenmakers Smith

FF Breust Roughead Puopolo

Fol Hale Hodge Lewis

Int Suckling McEvoy Duryea Hartung

Average Age 27.1

Average Games 160.4

Back Line

Ave Age 29.3

Ave Games 201.3

Fol (includes wing)

Ave Age 28.2

Ave Games 202.3

Fwd

Ave Age 25.8

Ave Games 133.8

Int

Ave Age 24.3

Ave Games 76.0

Games Backline Fol Fwd Int total

0-50 0 0 0 1 1

51-100 0 1 1 2 4

101-150 1 1 3 1 6

151-200 2 0 1 0 3

200+ 3 4 1 0 8

22

The difference in age and experience is stark. Hawthorn lined up with more players in every category over 50 games than we have on our team. They lined up with more players over 100 games than we have on our entire list!

Edited September 22, 2015 by Chris

[What 18,810]

A couple of speedy line breaking mids and gun key forward to support Jesse.

Then we will truly be back in business.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,408]

Swap Lumumba for Garland, swap Trengove(fit) for Watts, find replacements for Stretch and Harmes who aren't up to it ATM, trade Howe

Where exactly do see Stretch and Harmes?

[Little Goffy 14,645]

The obvious needs -

* A long term quality partner for Hogan and a long term quality partner for Gawn. If a suitably brilliant forward/ruck came along, this could even be one player! I do think that these days a big target needs to be real quality - it wont be enough in the long run to have the likes of Dawes or Pederson filling the role. It's a shame none of the rucks on the trade table seem comfortable playing primarily as forwards.

* Extra midfielders, with skill and speed being the aspects we most lack at the moment.

It's a little more complicated in defense. There are questions which need answering.

* Is Oscar McDonald going to develop into the 'true' tall defender we have been lacking? Will he be capable of limiting the big ogres who keep on having their best game of the season against us, year after year?

* How much can we rely on Lynden Dunn and Colin Garland to be the 'semi-tall' defenders for us?

* Is Neville Jetta durable enough, should he get an understudy?

* Will Christian Salem develop into a midfielder or stay across half-back?

Summary -

We actually have a sensible reason to recruit for pretty much any position on the ground except primary ruck.

Which is annoying, since full-time rucks are pretty much the only thing easily available this trade period!

[Chris 2,892]

The obvious needs -

* A long term quality partner for Hogan and a long term quality partner for Gawn. If a suitably brilliant forward/ruck came along, this could even be one player! I do think that these days a big target needs to be real quality - it wont be enough in the long run to have the likes of Dawes or Pederson filling the role. It's a shame none of the rucks on the trade table seem comfortable playing primarily as forwards.

* Extra midfielders, with skill and speed being the aspects we most lack at the moment.

It's a little more complicated in defense. There are questions which need answering.

* Is Oscar McDonald going to develop into the 'true' tall defender we have been lacking? Will he be capable of limiting the big ogres who keep on having their best game of the season against us, year after year?

* How much can we rely on Lynden Dunn and Colin Garland to be the 'semi-tall' defenders for us?

* Is Neville Jetta durable enough, should he get an understudy?

* Will Christian Salem develop into a midfielder or stay across half-back?

Summary -

We actually have a sensible reason to recruit for pretty much any position on the ground except primary ruck.

Which is annoying, since full-time rucks are pretty much the only thing easily available this trade period!

Defence is the interesting part, what we need int eh other areas is obvious and is covered well by you.

Looking at the ages we need to cover for Dunn, Lumumba, Garland, and to a lesser extent Jetta in the next 4 years or so. We have T Mc and Salem as good young players in defence, if Salem goes midfield he will rotate through a back flank so not much of an issue. Coming through we have O Mc and maybe Frost who could be forward.

Given the time it takes to develop a tall key back, or even an effective mid or small back I think we really need to focus on this in the next two years. Every one seems so focused on the obvious needs, which shouldn't be ignored, that they miss the ramifications for the future of having gun young mids and forwards with an almost geriatric backline.

[mo64 5,881]

Defence is the interesting part, what we need int eh other areas is obvious and is covered well by you.

Looking at the ages we need to cover for Dunn, Lumumba, Garland, and to a lesser extent Jetta in the next 4 years or so. We have T Mc and Salem as good young players in defence, if Salem goes midfield he will rotate through a back flank so not much of an issue. Coming through we have O Mc and maybe Frost who could be forward.

Given the time it takes to develop a tall key back, or even an effective mid or small back I think we really need to focus on this in the next two years. Every one seems so focused on the obvious needs, which shouldn't be ignored, that they miss the ramifications for the future of having gun young mids and forwards with an almost geriatric backline.

The Eagles pretty much lost their whole backline through retirements and injury within a space of 12 months, and went from outside the eight to flag favourites. Without a quality midfield you won't go anywhere.

[Chris 2,892]

The Eagles pretty much lost their whole backline through retirements and injury within a space of 12 months, and went from outside the eight to flag favourites. Without a quality midfield you won't go anywhere.

yet the backline they lined up with in their last match had an average age of 25.7 and average games of 111. That is very similar to our best team listed above and is hardly a rookie backline.

I agree we need a gun midfield, and forward line, and backline, my point is that the age profile of each line is out of whack and we need some young backs to come good when the other lines do. Who do we have to replace those we will loose to age in four or five year time?

[Young Blood 2,634]

Chris I think its important to have a more mature backline. Cooler heads, more poise etc. and Dunn, Jetta and Garland have those capabilities and will be able to stick together for you would hope another 2-3 years. I think the key is finding the balance. You don't want to throw young guys into the side down back where mistakes are obviously more costly. I think Frost, Omac and White will get their opportunities to line up with our older backs next year.

I agree though we need to keep recruiting younger backs to develop behind our current backline. I think we'll look to do so in the draft. It's usually where you can pick up some less flashy, more steady players.

But hopefully there are also some 20-24 yr olds available in FA or trade too.

[Chris 2,892]

Chris I think its important to have a more mature backline. Cooler heads, more poise etc. and Dunn, Jetta and Garland have those capabilities and will be able to stick together for you would hope another 2-3 years. I think the key is finding the balance. You don't want to throw young guys into the side down back where mistakes are obviously more costly. I think Frost, Omac and White will get their opportunities to line up with our older backs next year.

I agree though we need to keep recruiting younger backs to develop behind our current backline. I think we'll look to do so in the draft. It's usually where you can pick up some less flashy, more steady players.

But hopefully there are also some 20-24 yr olds available in FA or trade too.

Yep, my thoughts exactly. Better to develop the young backs while the oldies are there, not recruit them once the oldies leave and throw them to the wolves.

I think Frost will end up in the forward line helping Hogan, so it only really leaves White and O Mc, I think we need another couple of young backs on the list to develop.

[Young Blood 2,634]

Yeah thats really interesting. Everyone is talking about recruiting another big bodied, marking forward to take some of the heat off Jesse/an upgrade from Dawes. There doesn't seem to be much out there at the moment in FA or possible trades. I actually think if nothing transpires that Frost might head forward. Big athletic body with terrific strength and decent leg speed. He is also a player that could could give Gawn a break in the ruck. I think if that does happen we might see more of Pederson at CHB where he has played some good football with his marking and running ability.

But I do hope we can either draft (Curnow?) or pick up a marking forward type player to build the depth of the forward line behind Jesse, Pederson, Dawes, AVB and Watts.

[dpositive 1,699]

This is how Hawthorn lined up on the weekend.

FB Stratton Lake Frawley

HB Birchall Gibson Burgoyne

C Hill Mitchell Shiels

HF Rioli Schoenmakers Smith

FF Breust Roughead Puopolo

Fol Hale Hodge Lewis

Int Suckling McEvoy Duryea Hartung

Average Age 27.1

Average Games 160.4

Back Line

Ave Age 29.3

Ave Games 201.3

Fol (includes wing)

Ave Age 28.2

Ave Games 202.3

Fwd

Ave Age 25.8

Ave Games 133.8

Int

Ave Age 24.3

Ave Games 76.0

Games Backline Fol Fwd Int total

0-50 0 0 0 1 1

51-100 0 1 1 2 4

101-150 1 1 3 1 6

151-200 2 0 1 0 3

200+ 3 4 1 0 8

22

The difference in age and experience is stark. Hawthorn lined up with more players in every category over 50 games than we have on our team. They lined up with more players over 100 games than we have on our entire list!

Hey Chris great analysis

You must have more time than me and obviously more interest. Sorry to be riding off your efforts.

[mo64 5,881]

yet the backline they lined up with in their last match had an average age of 25.7 and average games of 111. That is very similar to our best team listed above and is hardly a rookie backline.

I agree we need a gun midfield, and forward line, and backline, my point is that the age profile of each line is out of whack and we need some young backs to come good when the other lines do. Who do we have to replace those we will loose to age in four or five year time

In the age of free agency and player movements, you're kidding yourself if you're trying to plan for 4-5 years time. In terms of our own backline, I can see T.Mac, Frost and O. Mac covering key back posts in the future.

We need to improve the class of our medium sized/small backs, and that can come from within, as the Eagles have done. I disagree that Garland is a cool head, and would be happy to move him on. I also think that we could do better than Jetta, but happy to have him playing next year. A full year of Salem will help, and I'd be rotating the likes of Vince and Kent off half back.