On 17/08/2015 at 06:23, Baghdad Bob said:

No, it's a mathematical calculation.

There is a difference?

  On 16/08/2015 at 23:46, Biffen said:

The philosophical approach isn't doing it for me at all.

Maybe your brain is too small

  On 17/08/2015 at 05:48, Bimbo said:

I wonder how many of those now questioning the coach, suggested that the team would win 6 - 8 games prior to the season.

To now whinge, unless such prediction was qualified at the time of prediction by suggesting it would not be enough, would suggest that it is they who should be questioned. These were resonable and sensible expectations.

I see a team that has, from a very low base, been addressing the question of culture over four years and actually improving its performance on the field notably this year.

It has been my first game in Australia since the Geelong game. I left in a buoyant mood and my electronic support over the last two weeks has left me joyous and hopeful. The fact that I have been depressed all day and an [censored] to work with, does not detract from my very strong view that the team is on right track.

It is simply not easy to rise up the ladder. There are 16 other teams trying desperately to do that every year.

No wonder you call yourself Bimbo.

Last year we led in the last quarter in around 12 games. We apparently didn't know how to finish and it was something to do with fitness.

This year we expected that we would be more consistent but still have occasional lapses.

We are anything but consistent.

We have won 2 more games than last year but this was absolutely expected and frankly we should give it away if we can't improve on 4 wins..

Bulldogs have improved. West Coast have improved. St Kilda have improved,. Richmond have improved.

Have we improved? Marginally, at best. We are a psychotic team that has a game plan that is clearly too hard for these simpletons. The coach has to take some heat for these pathetic performances.

How can you go and get blown away in the first quarter this week and last. Where is the preparation? WTF do they do during the week? The best game they played the players themselves prepared during the week so what does that say about the coaches????

How can you leave Oxley on his own to take 14 marks in defence, 8 intercepts.

How is it we leave a spare opp'n player in defence and get whipped.

I am not seeing any improvement in coaching.

I am seeing some individuals improve. But I am not seeing an improvement in effort and running and skills and decision making. Its laughable.

  On 17/08/2015 at 06:05, poita said:

This sort of attitude is exactly why this club has been pitiful for nine years. It doesn't matter whether the players try or not, it doesn't matter whether we win or lose, just pretend it didn't happen and move on to the next woeful performance.

Really? You're going with that line? So a few supporters don't chuck a hissy fit about a loss in Round 20 when finals are well and truly gone and it's the reason why we have been pitiful for so long? Might not have anything to do with terrible recruiting, horrible administration and, for a time, crippling debt? Nah, must be a few supporters who are to blame.

And it's a shame your son didn't enjoy this game, but it's an even greater shame he has missed the chance to see some sensational wins this year.

  On 27/07/2015 at 12:30, P-man said:

I just see no good coming out of this CONSTANT reference to the past bogging everyone down. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

"I don't want to mention it but..."

So don't then. Prefacing your statement with that doesn't make a difference. You're talking about it. Continually. So stop doing it. It's just deflection at this point.

Talk about where things went wrong on the weekend and what you're doing to fix them. That's your job. There was a lot of talk pre-season about a greater attacking intent this year. That has been a pretty dismal failure. Why? What are you doing to fix it?

Supporters don't meltdown over a loss. They meltdown over a largely non-competitive loss against a fellow developing side. And rightly so. We need to have moved past performances like we saw on the weekend.

Roos was asked if the development is real. He used it to bring up the past. Again. It's disappointing.

Rule number one of politics - blame the previous administration

In this case blaming the past helps him disown responsibility

  On 17/08/2015 at 03:34, AdamFarr said:

I don't care what it's doing for you. I care how the players react to it. At this point, it seems progress is slow, but nevertheless, present.

Agree.... Whilst frustrating we need to remember a complete rebuild of a club & its culture... I dare say there will be more list changes by year end.. Team has a good base of young talent but some mid-senior players are not afl std..

Garland, Howe, Lumumba, Dunn, Garlett, Grimes, Dawes, N Jones, Vince, Cross, Jamar.

It's a crap leadership group.

Some say 'well the Dogs are younger'. True, the 2015 Dogs are a very young side. But they got to this point on the back of great development coaching from McCartney, and proper leadership (from Murphy, Boyd and Morris, and prior to that Gia, Griffen and Cooney (and, before that, Cross)). Proper, A-grade leaders. Beveridge has made some important changes but otherwise is reaping the hard work of the past 5 years.

We have had a bunch of hopeless on-field leaders, the best of whom have reached some stellar heights but don't get there weekly (Vince and N Jones). The rest of whom either have no leadership bone in them (Howe, Dunn, Garlett) or have had bad years on the field (Jamar, Grimes, Dawes).

There's no doubt IMO that Roos is struggling - he's not getting the players up weekly, he's not ironing out the inconsistencies, he's not eking improvement out of the NQRs (Bail, M Jones, McKenzie, Terlich - all at the same level or worse than under Neeld), he hasn't worked out how to get the players to balance offence with defence. But he's also struggling to deal with a list that has no leadership, most importantly no on-field leadership, and hasn't had so since 2006 (or earlier). He didn't come to a club where the hard work had been done, like Beveridge. He came to the club with the hard work having been completely messed up (twice) and having to start again.

  On 17/08/2015 at 09:47, titan_uranus said:

Garland, Howe, Lumumba, Dunn, Garlett, Grimes, Dawes, N Jones, Vince, Cross, Jamar.

It's a crap leadership group.

Some say 'well the Dogs are younger'. True, the 2015 Dogs are a very young side. But they got to this point on the back of great development coaching from McCartney, and proper leadership (from Murphy, Boyd and Morris, and prior to that Gia, Griffen and Cooney (and, before that, Cross)). Proper, A-grade leaders. Beveridge has made some important changes but otherwise is reaping the hard work of the past 5 years.

We have had a bunch of hopeless on-field leaders, the best of whom have reached some stellar heights but don't get there weekly (Vince and N Jones). The rest of whom either have no leadership bone in them (Howe, Dunn, Garlett) or have had bad years on the field (Jamar, Grimes, Dawes).

There's no doubt IMO that Roos is struggling - he's not getting the players up weekly, he's not ironing out the inconsistencies, he's not eking improvement out of the NQRs (Bail, M Jones, McKenzie, Terlich - all at the same level or worse than under Neeld), he hasn't worked out how to get the players to balance offence with defence. But he's also struggling to deal with a list that has no leadership, most importantly no on-field leadership, and hasn't had so since 2006 (or earlier). He didn't come to a club where the hard work had been done, like Beveridge. He came to the club with the hard work having been completely messed up (twice) and having to start again.

Very well put titan.

I don't think any supporter could argue that at least some of the blame lays at Roos' feet, however, he has had to deal with FAR more than any other incumbent coach has over the last few years. Getting potentially 7-8 wins out of this group considering how utterly awful we were less than 2 years ago is something close to a miracle.

I don't know how I feel about this Hogan character. Whinges when the ball isn't kicked to him and doesn't provide enough pressure in the 50

#choppingblock

#tradehim

#getstuffedroos

Dawes, Howe and Lumumba in the leadership group but not Viney or McDonald. I don't believe in making guys leaders as a sweetener in their contract. How about you show you care about the [censored] club on the field first.

Lumumba does not deserve to be a leader....has had a very ordinary year, and doesn't show the way at all on field.

  On 16/08/2015 at 23:50, Coup Cooper said:

Utter embarrassment would be an understatement..

Hence this is "our grand final" we lose against a club everyone thinks should be tanking. And the irony alone would be enough to drive me mad!! We are favourites.. Flu/virus or not..we lose to Carlton.. All that respect we inched our way after beating Geelong & Collingwood.. Is gone..

and even better Footscray and Richmond

Not really sure but flu does seem quite plausible explanation for the erratic and at times insipid performances the past fortnight.

So unless there are at least 20 fit players we could indeed struggle

In answer to the opening post, there is one question you can ask about Roos and that is, why is he on AFL 360?

He hardly says anything about the Dees and actually is hardly given any time to speak, as it is always about Buckley and the Pies and tonight Scott and the Cats.

I actually feel embarrassed for him, sitting there like a cutout figure.

  On 17/08/2015 at 11:08, Redleg said:

In answer to the opening post, there is one question you can ask about Roos and that is, why is he on AFL 360?

He hardly says anything about the Dees and actually is hardly given any time to speak, as it is always about Buckley and the Pies and tonight Scott and the Cats.

I actually feel embarrassed for him, sitting there like a cutout figure.

He's worried about his retirement fund. $1.7m clearly ain't enough on top of his 28y playing and coaching career...

  On 17/08/2015 at 06:59, Roost It said:

Maybe your brain is too small

Yeah that's it.

My brain is too small.

Tosspot.

Everyone underestimates how hard it is to actually polish a turd.

The recruiting has a lot to answer for!!!

Definitely seeing a shining light at the end of a very long tunnel,

That light goes by the name of Jesse hogan,Angus Bradshaw,Christian Salem,Christian petracca etc...

Let's just hope we can keep them

  On 17/08/2015 at 09:53, Wiseblood said:

Very well put titan.

I don't think any supporter could argue that at least some of the blame lays at Roos' feet, however, he has had to deal with FAR more than any other incumbent coach has over the last few years. Getting potentially 7-8 wins out of this group considering how utterly awful we were less than 2 years ago is something close to a miracle.

Tosh

The dogs have had to contend with worse in the past 3 yrs.

We were leading in the last qtr in at least 8 games last year. Its not a stretch to win 6 this year. You are too soft on Roos. The consultant isn't getting the best out of the players by a big margin.

But the inconsistency is the killer. And the lack of a cohesive modern game plan.

  On 17/08/2015 at 09:47, titan_uranus said:

He didn't come to a club where the hard work had been done, like Beveridge.

Or like he did at the Swans.

Where Eade had done the hard work.

  On 17/08/2015 at 11:39, Fork said:

Or like he did at the Swans.

Where Eade had done the hard work.

Eade lost the players as he always ends up doing.

Roos first priority was to restore the psyche of the club and I believe he is succeeding, as evidenced by the re-signings of some important players. He has established a great football dept and put a succession plan in place to create some stability.

The recruiting has been first class and we probably will end up with 7 - 8 wins this year.

Not a bad 18 months work IMO.

Goodwin will take the coaching on match day in 2016.

Who ever is calling it next year we need to change our game plan. Defensive skills are great, holding possession is great but when that makes you static against the newer frenetic offensive forward press game plan of the Dogs and other top sides, you need to change your style. The Dogs were frenetic, manic and aggressive, we were shell shocked, static and reactive, they ran forward in numbers, won possession, then spread in all directions, giving numerous options. What do we do? Take a mark, prop, look for an option, turn it over!

It is a lot to do with the game plan.

  On 17/08/2015 at 11:47, chook fowler said:

Eade lost the players as he always ends up doing.

Might've lost them.

But he also assembled them.

  On 01/08/2015 at 21:20, Bonkers said:

It's a major concern that we just seem to stop in games. If we bring intent & effort with a determined positive mindset in to games it seems like we are able to compete with most teams. Its getting that on a consistent basis that is lacking, which is very frustrating. I'd like to see the club address the fitness levels ...

It's the kind of fitness that you find between the ears - it's surprising how fit you feel when you're in front, and how tired you feel when you're getting belted.

  On 17/08/2015 at 11:31, jnrmac said:

Tosh

The dogs have had to contend with worse in the past 3 yrs.

We were leading in the last qtr in at least 8 games last year. Its not a stretch to win 6 this year. You are too soft on Roos. The consultant isn't getting the best out of the players by a big margin.

But the inconsistency is the killer. And the lack of a cohesive modern game plan.

Agreed.

Dogs lost major experience and key parts of their Prelim runs. They have spent 3 years down the bottom, never bottomed out, and now look like Hawthorn did in 2007 and 2008.

Last year we should have won 10 games considering the position we were in over 10 matches. Losing the final 10 games wouldn't have been as damning had we won 8 games prior to that (Port, Bulldogs, Saints, Suns, who we all led at one point in the last). Throw in Port again, Lions, Dogs again. That's 7 games we were in very winnable positions in.

That hasn't been the case this year.

Of 12 loses, we have only been in it 4 times: Adelaide, Collingwood, St Kilda and Essendon. The other 8 games, we were never a chance, and the loses against the Saints and Bombers were disappointing in the way that they should have been wins. We went from competing in 2014, to disappointing in 2015.

6 wins is merely normalisation. We added Hogan, Garlett, Lumumba, Brayshaw, VB, a good balance of experience, big bodies and young talent. To suggest we are only a 2-win better side than last year is comical.

8 wins is still the pass mark. Carlton is a must win. And it must be a strong win. Compete against Freo. And [censored] those runts from GWS.

Otherwise yet another season is lost after a handful of bad loses to end the year.

You can't undervalue the importance of closing the year strong if you aren't in the finals. Great clubs play to win. We're beyond merely passing off loses and matches as being worthless.

Roos will earn his pay the next three weeks. It's integral for the team's development, sponsorship, memberships, free agency that we play a brand of football that showcases how far the club has come.

If they can't do that, 2016 will just be another year. You can't get away with just passing off loses. It plays on the mind and opposing teams will take advantage. I'm surprised that after a decade, some here still undervalue a win, even wins against teams like Carlton.

  On 17/08/2015 at 09:47, titan_uranus said:

There's no doubt IMO that Roos is struggling ...

Don't agree. Perhaps he's frustrated, but struggling implies that he's not doing what he could/should, which I don't believe is the case.

Not sure why people keep looking at Roos here - until we get some decent players, who then get a decent time learning to play together, there isn't going to be any miracle turnaround, no matter who the coach is.