Jack Watts vs Jimmy Toumpas

[spirit of norm smith 15,527]

big year ahead for both Jack and Jimmy

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I actually believe that's its Jimmy Toumpas vs Christian Salem for this half back role , of which Salem is in front at the present time.

If both good enough, then there's no reason both can't be in the same team.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I've said this from start, if Toumpas was taken at around pick 80 then he would be pretty good value for such a late draft pick.

So far as a pick 4, he's a complete bust. It's not his fault where he was drafted but the reality is for a top five pick you need to be selecting A grade talent.

It's not too late for him but I just don't think he has the tools to make it.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Clint Bizkit

[old dee 23,553]

I've said this from start, if Toumpas was taken at around pick 80 then he would pretty good value for such a late draft pick.

So far as a pick 4, he's a complete bust. It's not his fault where he was drafted but the reality is for a top five pick you need to be selecting A grade talent.

It's not too late for him but I just don't think he has the tools to make it.

I am trying very hard to give him this season CB

But nothing I saw last night gave me confidence.

[hardtack 10,434]

I've said this from start, if Toumpas was taken at around pick 80 then he would pretty good value for such a late draft pick.

So far as a pick 4, he's a complete bust. It's not his fault where he was drafted but the reality is for a top five pick you need to be selecting A grade talent.

It's not too late for him but I just don't think he has the tools to make it.

Exactly right on both counts... so, as we obviously cannot go back in time and change when he was picked, why don't we lower our expectations and accept him as a reasonable player who could improve and may yet make it. He is not A grade talent, you are right, but neither were Nathan Jones and Mark Jamar when they arrived at the club and after their first 3 or 4 years everyone was calling for their heads on a plate... Jamar went on to reach AA status and Jones is now close to elite.

[old dee 23,553]

Exactly right on both counts... so, as we obviously cannot go back in time and change when he was picked, why don't we lower our expectations and accept him as a reasonable player who could improve and may yet make it. He is not A grade talent, you are right, but neither were Nathan Jones and Mark Jamar when they arrived at the club and after their first 3 or 4 years everyone was calling for their heads on a plate... Jamar went on to reach AA status and Jones is now close to elite.

I believe the main reason was Jones kicking that let him down he always got the ball and was always having a red hot go.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Exactly right on both counts... so, as we obviously cannot go back in time and change when he was picked, why don't we lower our expectations and accept him as a reasonable player who could improve and may yet make it. He is not A grade talent, you are right, but neither were Nathan Jones and Mark Jamar when they arrived at the club and after their first 3 or 4 years everyone was calling for their heads on a plate... Jamar went on to reach AA status and Jones is now close to elite.

If he makes it as a "reasonable player" I will be ecstatic.

EDIT: I just don't think he has any weapons, he's not quick, he's skills are neat but not damaging, he's not strong and he struggles in the contested situations. Nathan Jones at least had a few weapons and then built on them, I don't know what weapons Toumpas has.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Clint Bizkit

[hardtack 10,434]

I believe the main reason was Jones kicking that let him down he always got the ball and was always having a red hot go.

Well OD, he was actually condemned by many for his poor decision making (trying to do too much on his own and turning into packs and getting pinged for holding the ball) as well as poor disposal by hand and foot... in fact, a lot of similarities to what Tommy Mac is being lambasted for. I thought yesterday that despite not having a lot of possession,Toumpas actually went in fearlessly when he was in a position to do so and we know his disposal by foot is very good... so I think that once he is completely up and running (remember was recovering from hip problems and appendicitis last year), he will start to show improvement.

[What 18,810]

Watts is an automatic selection due to his foot skills and goal kicking ability alone. Hes also played some great footy at AFL level.

Toumpas has still done nothing to show he is a best 22 player.

Edited March 6, 2015 by hogans_heroes

[KingDingAling 3,750]

I've said this from start, if Toumpas was taken at around pick 80 then he would pretty good value for such a late draft pick.

So far as a pick 4, he's a complete bust. It's not his fault where he was drafted but the reality is for a top five pick you need to be selecting A grade talent.

It's not too late for him but I just don't think he has the tools to make it.

Even at pick 80 Toumpas wouldn't be good value.

That isn't to say he won't be a good - or even great - player. But as of today, Jimmy Toumpas hasn't done a lot at AFL level.

A VFL player could be taken at pick 80 and if he'd of done as much as Toumpas, we'd be calling for his head.

I'm not saying Toumpas won't be a good player, I'm just saying that to date he has done nothing.

Why do people call Toumpas a bust at pick 4? Because players taken after him - players we could've taken - are performing at a far superior level.

Does that mean Jimmy Toumpas cannot perform at that level also? NO, it doesn't. But every year he doesn't perform at an expected level, it becomes unlikely that he will.

Thankfully it is only early days for Jimmy Toumpas, he has had his first full pre-season where he wasn't injured. So there is a lot more to be excited about - than there is to dwell on.

[Sir Why You Little 36,744]

I still remember the moment Toumpas' name was read out.

My heart sank and then i nearly smashed up my radio Tuner on the stereo...

A grave and stupid but so "melbourne" decision had once again been made

If only....

[hardtack 10,434]

I still remember the moment Toumpas' name was read out.

My heart sank and then i nearly smashed up my radio Tuner on the stereo...

A grave and stupid but so "melbourne" decision had once again been made

If only....

Yep, you really were upset WYL - absolutely devastated:

"Now Mark Neeld has some tough cattle.

Lets go..."

Yes, you changed your tune in a later post in that same Welcome to the MFC - Jimmy Toumpas thread, but that was two years later.

[Sir Why You Little 36,744]

Yep, you really were upset WYL - absolutely devastated:

"Now Mark Neeld has some tough cattle.

Lets go..."

Yes, you changed your tune in a later post in that same Welcome to the MFC - Jimmy Toumpas thread, but that was two years later.

once the choice was made i was hoping it was right and i was wrong

But i knew who was Jacks best mate.

JT was rated no doubt but the other bloke was to and we had inside info...and totally blew it

[Ted Lasso 18,914]

once the choice was made i was hoping it was right and i was wrong

But i knew who was Jacks best mate.

JT was rated no doubt but the other bloke was to and we had inside info...and totally blew it

Which is why i feel something went totally wrong in the process, for so long we were going to take Ollie regardless of what else happened, not sure why the sudden change at the last minute.

[hardtack 10,434]

Which is why i feel something went totally wrong in the process, for so long we were going to take Ollie regardless of what else happened, not sure why the sudden change at the last minute.

That's not true... for so long many on Demonland were convinced that the Dees were going to take Wines as he was Jack's mate... I don't ever recall seeing anything from the club in regards to Wines being the favoured option.

[Sir Why You Little 36,744]

Which is why i feel something went totally wrong in the process, for so long we were going to take Ollie regardless of what else happened, not sure why the sudden change at the last minute.

Yep i agree. The last truly mind numbing decision of the Red & Blueprint

Why? There was simply no logic to it

Jack and the other guy i am not allowed to mention are best mates.

Toumpas must be sent back to Casey until he dominates or trade bait he must become...

[Ted Lasso 18,914]

That's not true... for so long many on Demonland were convinced that the Dees were going to take Wines as he was Jack's mate... I don't ever recall seeing anything from the club in regards to Wines being the favoured option.

you very rarely see anything from the club before the draft saying this is our preffered option, unless like last year you have picks 2 and 3 and you can reasonably confidently say who the top three players are.

but we were strongly linked to Wines for months pre draft.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Sir Paul Roos

[rpfc 28,079]

Which is why i feel something went totally wrong in the process, for so long we were going to take Ollie regardless of what else happened, not sure why the sudden change at the last minute.

What change?

Toumpas was rated in the top 3 talents all year according to the 'experts' and then GWS took the Vic boys because they fear losing their players unless they have a pre-existing relationship... When Toumpas became available we took the 'better' prospect.

Wines was a highly rated junior and is easily the better AFL player.

There are so many holes in selecting talent at such a young age it would be laughable if it weren't so painful...

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Well OD, he was actually condemned by many for his poor decision making (trying to do too much on his own and turning into packs and getting pinged for holding the ball) as well as poor disposal by hand and foot... in fact, a lot of similarities to what Tommy Mac is being lambasted for. I thought yesterday that despite not having a lot of possession,Toumpas actually went in fearlessly when he was in a position to do so and we know his disposal by foot is very good... so I think that once he is completely up and running (remember was recovering from hip problems and appendicitis last year), he will start to show improvement.

That is exactly how I saw it.

He made some errors but I certainly didn't see the poor game that others saw.

He looked like someone who was trying desperately to make things happen. He is three years behind Watts. He is at least putting his head over it and playing with intensity. The other stuff will come.

[Ted Lasso 18,914]

What change?

Toumpas was rated in the top 3 talents all year according to the 'experts' and then GWS took the Vic boys because they fear losing their players unless they have a pre-existing relationship... When Toumpas became available we took the 'better' prospect.

Wines was a highly rated junior and is easily the better AFL player.

There are so many holes in selecting talent at such a young age it would be laughable if it weren't so painful...

we were so strongly linked to Wines that even when Toumpas became an option it was still far from certain that we wouldn't pass on him, just seems strange

we knew Wines would play from the word go, improve our list right away, was victorian so no go home factor, we'd watched him closely for months, and Todd and Jack basically raised the kid he was there that often, to me it seems like we made a reactionary call based on the hype around Toumpas and it could well prove to be one of the clubs biggest stuff ups.

[hardtack 10,434]

you very rarely see anything from the club before the draft saying this is our preffered option, unless like last year you have picks 2 and 3 and you can reasonably confidently say who the top three players are.

but we were strongly linked to Wines for months pre draft.

We very rarely see anything but you know for a fact that we were strongly linked to Wines for so long? Yes, there were endless rumours flying around on Demonland, but I saw no concrete evidence at all.

[P-man 13,366]

I would like to remind patrons that the OWL remains open: http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/37291-the-ollie-whines-lounge/page-8

[Ted Lasso 18,914]

We very rarely see anything but you know for a fact that we were strongly linked to Wines for so long? Yes, there were endless rumours flying around on Demonland, but I saw no concrete evidence at all.

I didn't know anything, just that Todd was at a ton of poineers games, the media had it written down as an almost certainty and that Ollie even said himself he wanted to come to the Melbourne football club and wasn't at all daunted by the challenge, thought he and Jack would play well together.

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

What injury is Jack Watts suffering from at the moment? I just saw him in Church Street, Brighton and overheard him telling a shopkeeper (friend obviously) that he was heading down to Sorrento until Tuesday. I thought we had an open training session at Gosch's on Monday?

[Forest Demon 4,681]

What injury is Jack Watts suffering from at the moment? I just saw him in Church Street, Brighton and overheard him telling a shopkeeper (friend obviously) that he was heading down to Sorrento until Tuesday. I thought we had an open training session at Gosch's on Monday?

Geez, this is going to be popular.