Training - Friday 13th February, 2015

[old dee 23,872]

Well yes binman not certain about every game but I will be surprised if does play in most.

[AzzKikA 2,371]

I don't agree with this at all and -not having a go - i am surprised there seems to be a number of posters who think he might drop to the magoos.

Leaving aside the issues of being picked number 1 and his lack of intensity last year he was one of our most consistent players. He is also without question our most skillful player by foot and i would argue also by hand. He has also has exceptional vision and creates scoring opportunities.

Given we are not blessed with a team full of great kicks who have great vision and set up goals i think he is safe in the side.

Barring injury i would be very surprised if he does not play every game.

You have your opinion and i have mine, only time will tell and when im right i will rub it in your face YOU JERK!

(Taking the pizz if u didnt know.)

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I went to my 5th session today. Notes (apologies for any repetition)

- 8 or 9 blokes in the rehab, Vince wasn't at the ground. Watts and Howe look pretty fit despite not participating.

- Frost looks great, a true athlete with size, speed and strength. You can see his usefulness streaming out of defense. I think he is a lock for R1

- Jones is as prolific in intra-club match sims as he is in the real thing, the bloke is just a gem

- Gawny looked good playing key forward, a very imposing figure.. it seems very likely he will be spending lots of time down there in 2015 and for mine he could be one of the ones to take a big step forward

- Toumpas is starting to grow on me. I still worry that he has nothing about him that makes him stand out, and that he might not be able to get his hands on it enough BUT gee he moves really well and is a super efficient user. He is a smooth operator. Can't wait to see his year.

- Vandenberg got some wraps for some good tackling and general contested footy. Is a chance to make an impact.

- Petracca looks every bit a senior player.

Overall I was pretty happy, there were some fluffed kicks but if you take Terlich out of the equation you just about halve the number! Sorry but it's true! Overall marking, movement, linking up etc looked good

Heart attack moment: Jones vs Tyson running back with the flight of a skyball, at the moment of contact each held their ground in attempt to 'body bounce' the other guy off, there was no holding back in intensity. Tyson won. Jones got up gingerly clutching his knee, with Tyson offering his apologies. Jones went to the boundary and got looked at, but it seems he is OK. Good thing this is the bloke that misses a game about every 2 years because he is made of concrete. Scary moment, but exciting to see Tyson man up and defeat the skipper..

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

I don't agree with this at all and -not having a go - i am surprised there seems to be a number of posters who think he might drop to the magoos.

Leaving aside the issues of being picked number 1 and his lack of intensity last year he was one of our most consistent players. He is also without question our most skillful player by foot and i would argue also by hand. He has also has exceptional vision and creates scoring opportunities.

Given we are not blessed with a team full of great kicks who have great vision and set up goals i think he is safe in the side.

Barring injury i would be very surprised if he does not play every game.

i agree, he is our best user of the football when he gets it in his hands, he has come of 22 games and a top ten finish in the b&f and definitely his best season yet, but still people feel like he is going to struggle. He is and will again this year be one of the first picked when fit and his influence will be felt more and more throughout the game as we develop a better midfield. He constantly presents and gets to the right spots but the skill level that we have is not always able to use him, but as the team gets better so will Watts.

May play VFL in order to come back from injury but it is highly unlikely he will not play round 1 if available

[mo64 5,881]

Attended my first training session for the year. There were very few bystanders so I thought I'd give my observations. I must have been on the other side of the ground to Baghdad Bob, cause I hardly noticed Petracca but noticed others not mentioned.

The match simulation involved 1 player with a white vest who played for both teams. Those players were Tyson, Viney and N.Jones alternatively. Tyson copped a spray from Roos for not giving off a handball which resulted in a turnover.

Standouts

- Despite his earlier error, Tyson is our classiest player and makes the game look easy.

- N. Jones just kept getting the ball.

- Newton was the player that surprised me the most. Great awareness and decision making, and a lovely left foot kick.

- Hogan clunked a fantastic contested mark and roamed as far as the centre. His kicking for goal doesn't seem to be a concern either.

- Garlett didn't do a lot, but will be great around Hogan.

- The backline players in Jetta, Dunn, Salem and Frost were impressive. I didn't have huge wraps on Frost, but his defensive skills were great. Salem also copped a spray from Roos for playing on and kicking to a contest, but his disposal is 1st class which is sadly lacking in our backline. Brayshaw got a fair bit of the ball at half back.

Disappointments

- Viney was in the play alot, and was in his element when tackling was involved. However he missed targets too often and at one stage smashed his fist into the ground after having a handball blocked by Frost, resulting in a goal at the other end.

- Collectively Spencer, Pedersen, McKenzie and M.Jones made the same mistakes they've been making their whole careers. Spencer and [Pedersen] dropping marks under little pressure. McKenzie going to ground unnecessarily to give off a handball resulting in a turnover.(Keep your bl##dy feet). M. Jones almost missed the lot when having a set shot 30m out straight in front.

Toumpas got plenty of the ball, but every time he did, he'll stop to survey what's ahead of him, and kick the ball leaning back. This results in the ball taking longer to get to a teammate. Good players know what they're going to do with the ball before they get it. It's something that Toumpas needs to work on.

Overall I thought the standard was pretty average in what seemed to be a low intensity match simulation. The conditions were fairly windy, but there were too many missed targets.

On a positive note, the addition of Hogan, Garlett, Newton and Lumumba will hopefully improve our side. Contrary to BB, I thought that Jamar was clearly the dominant big man.

Vince ran a lot of laps at a fairly decent pace, but I noticed a limp when he was walking. Howe also ran laps but seemed to be moving ok when kicking for goal.

[binman 43,779]

Well yes binman not certain about every game but I will be surprised if does play in most.

I'm assuming you mean surprised if does not play in most

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

- Collectively Spencer, Pedersen, McKenzie and M.Jones made the same mistakes they've been making their whole careers. Spencer and [Pedersen] dropping marks under little pressure. McKenzie going to ground unnecessarily to give off a handball resulting in a turnover.(Keep your bl##dy feet). M. Jones almost missed the lot when having a set shot 30m out straight in front.

I assume you must have been watching a different training from me then this morning

Vince, Watts, White, Hunt, Howe, Neal Bullen, Fitzpatrick, Garland all did some sort of rehab wo

Missing Trengove, King and Riley

Standouts for me today were Jones x 2, Michie, Cross, Garlett Frost, Brayshaw and Petracca who had an even better session today than last week, complimented him after and he said "that's what I am aiming for, to improve every session"

The one on one work that we keep seeing Salem do is at his request, feels it is an area of his game that needs work, has no idea where he will be playing, Roos has not discussed with him

Coaching - after two poor options and the ball going to ground, Roos pulled up in the drill and in a voice everybody could here said (this is to get past the censor) "that's farken scheizenhausen", they had another match sim at the end of the session that went for 20 minutes, the first 5 when this occurred was ordinary but after the spray, the next 15 was really good

Somebody said Nathan Jones had a bit of a knock, didn't stop him winning the goal kicking comp against Brayshaw at the end, with a very over the top celebration, much to the few still there amusement,

Jeff Garlett wears 33 because the jumpers they are training in are last years, this years still to be delivered.

Any questions feel free.

[red and blue forever 1,041]

The one on one work that we keep seeing Salem do is at his request, feels it is an area of his game that needs work, has no idea where he will be playing, Roos has not discussed with him

the one on one work, does it have more of an defensive or offensive element to it??

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

I assume you must have been watching a different training from me then this morning

Yes. It's called having different opinions.

Interesting nonetheless that one supporter will pick up on mis-kicks, mis-handballs, wrong options etc from certain players, whilst another supporter will see something completely different.

[red and blue forever 1,041]

Vince, Watts, White, Hunt, Howe, Neal Bullen, Fitzpatrick, Garland all did some sort of rehab work

Missing Trengove, King and Riley

fitzy, injured or rest day?

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Yes. It's called having different opinions.

Interesting nonetheless that one supporter will pick up on mis-kicks, mis-handballs, wrong options etc from certain players, whilst another supporter will see something completely different.

I agree, my opinion formed by didn't see Spencer miss a target with a kick, Matt Jones was just really good, opinion shared with two other supporters I chatted to,, didn't see the McKenzie incident(S) and was going to put Pedersen amongst the best performers but didn't

the one on one work, does it have more of an defensive or offensive element to it??

Roos wants a bit of everything in all players, Chris Salem just said he felt he needed work with one on one

Think Fitzy has a bit of back tightness, he was still running at full pace, as I say ultra cautious these days

[The Chazz 4,077]

...

Disappointments

- Viney was in the play alot, and was in his element when tackling was involved. However he missed targets too often and at one stage smashed his fist into the ground after having a handball blocked by Frost, resulting in a goal at the other end.

Is it true that the west coast of New Zealand is now on tsunami alert after this?

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,408]

What position was Toump playing......anyone......anyone......Bueller......

Thanks again everyone for the reports.

Would love to know who will set up of halfback during the season, there's a few names being bandied around.

Again, quick ball movement requires competent operators. Some household names need not apply, it's the only way we are going to get better.

[mo64 5,881]

I was one of very few bystanders on the AAMI Park side of the ground, and the incidents in question were in front of me. Given that we're coming from a low base, I tend to look at where the areas of improvement will come. It concerns me if players are making the same mistakes at a low intensity training run.

There were very few "well done" moments. Tyson, Hogan, Garlett, Newton, Frost and Dunn provided some. Matt Jones got plenty of the ball, which is expected given that it was only 14 players per side, and he was an outside mid.

[AzzKikA 2,371]

Is it true that the west coast of New Zealand is now on tsunami alert after this?

Nice.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

What position was Toump playing......anyone......anyone......Bueller......

Thanks again everyone for the reports.

Would love to know who will set up of halfback during the season, there's a few names being bandied around.

Again, quick ball movement requires competent operators. Some household names need not apply, it's the only way we are going to get better.

He was playing wing/halfback mostly

I forgot to put Kent in my best as well, he was very good today

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

Toumpas got plenty of the ball, but every time he did, he'll stop to survey what's ahead of him, and kick the ball leaning back. This results in the ball taking longer to get to a teammate. Good players know what they're going to do with the ball before they get it. It's something that Toumpas needs to work on.

thanks for the report, this is the one that intrigued me the most though. Whilst I do not care in the slightest about his kicking technique, i think the fact that he had the time to be in space and survey his options is perfect for him. Players like Toumpas who can dispose the ball well if allowed the time should take it to choose the best option. If there is a clear quick option on and he is continually ignoring that or getting chased down consistently so he is kicking under pressure then the benefit of being able to take his time and choose the best option is redundant.

So basically did he often choose the wrong option? Was he ran down/made to dispose under pressure forcing him to miss targets?

[Slartibartfast 17,627]

What position was Toump playing......anyone......anyone......Bueller......

Thanks again everyone for the reports.

Would love to know who will set up of halfback during the season, there's a few names being bandied around.

Again, quick ball movement requires competent operators. Some household names need not apply, it's the only way we are going to get better.

It wasn't a full match practice and they were really only using two thirds of the ground but he appeared to be playing midfield wing to me. Didn't notice his up and under kicks either.

Jamar was good in the hitouts but he just didn't get involved around the ground. Perhaps he doesn't have to impress and goes easy but given it's the main criticism of him and given that Spencer was busy I'm still not sold he's a lock. Round the ground involvement and pressure v superior tap work. Which wins?

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

I was one of very few bystanders on the AAMI Park side of the ground, and the incidents in question were in front of me. Given that we're coming from a low base, I tend to look at where the areas of improvement will come. It concerns me if players are making the same mistakes at a low intensity training run.

There were very few "well done" moments. Tyson, Hogan, Garlett, Newton, Frost and Dunn provided some. Matt Jones got plenty of the ball, which is expected given that it was only 14 players per side, and he was an outside mid.

Yes but that is what we should be practicing, he also does miles of running to get the ball. I was on the AAMI park side of the ground for the match sim most of the time, in the last session apart from the first 5 mins, the skills from everybody were very good, I think you are nitpicking slightly, the moments that got Roos expasperated involved Tyson and Cross rather than the usual suspects

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

thanks for the report, this is the one that intrigued me the most though. Whilst I do not care in the slightest about his kicking technique, i think the fact that he had the time to be in space and survey his options is perfect for him. Players like Toumpas who can dispose the ball well if allowed the time should take it to choose the best option. If there is a clear quick option on and he is continually ignoring that or getting chased down consistently so he is kicking under pressure then the benefit of being able to take his time and choose the best option is redundant.

So basically did he often choose the wrong option? Was he ran down/made to dispose under pressure forcing him to miss targets?

No his disposal was really good, they do have the bail out ball into the goal square he utilised a couple of times, he has a decent kick on him when he is on the run

[old dee 23,872]

It wasn't a full match practice and they were really only using two thirds of the ground but he appeared to be playing midfield wing to me. Didn't notice his up and under kicks either.

Jamar was good in the hitouts but he just didn't get involved around the ground. Perhaps he doesn't have to impress and goes easy but given it's the main criticism of him and given that Spencer was busy I'm still not sold he's a lock. Round the ground involvement and pressure v superior tap work. Which wins?

The story of his life BB

[mo64 5,881]

thanks for the report, this is the one that intrigued me the most though. Whilst I do not care in the slightest about his kicking technique, i think the fact that he had the time to be in space and survey his options is perfect for him. Players like Toumpas who can dispose the ball well if allowed the time should take it to choose the best option. If there is a clear quick option on and he is continually ignoring that or getting chased down consistently so he is kicking under pressure then the benefit of being able to take his time and choose the best option is redundant.

So basically did he often choose the wrong option? Was he ran down/made to dispose under pressure forcing him to miss targets?

It was only a 14 a side game, so the pressure wasn't intense, and it was easy to find space. What Toumpas does is not dissimilar to Sam Mitchell, the difference being that Mitchell is brilliant with his hands, and punches his kicks to get penetration, whereas Toumpas kicks leaning back which gives them more elevation and less penetration.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,408]

One more question please TDI and Baghdad Bob.....

Has there been a directive from coaches that if we have the ball in transition just outside our forward 50 and there isn't a clear marking option to just kick it in , bring it to ground and let our smalls apply their trade. I know every situation is different but knowing how structured Roos is, he may want us to work the ball around until a clear option presents. Last year the few occasions we took the game we looked alright in parts, I think the opposition rely on us to stuff around giving them time to flood back. I raised this in the last training thread and someone commented the Sunshine Coast camp was about building trust, I hope he is right.

[McQueen 17,867]

Is it true that the west coast of New Zealand is now on tsunami alert after this?

We recorded a small tremor in Perth this morning. I thought it was the Giants walking in the city but now it makes sense.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

I agree, my opinion formed by didn't see Spencer miss a target with a kick, Matt Jones was just really good, opinion shared with two other supporters I chatted to,, didn't see the McKenzie incident(S) and was going to put Pedersen amongst the best performers but didn't

I think the poster was talking about Spencer's dropped marks which can be a feature of his game.

There's a difference between hanging [censored] on players at training VS being honest about how they perform in areas of their game that they are both good and bad at.

For example, I imagine Matt Jones gut running and ability to break lines and get to many contests is indeed a standout to you. Which is because it's one of his strengths and it's one of the reasons he is playing at this level. However, more interesting is that a different poster chose to see the other side of the coin which is to do with one of his weaknesses. Kicking ability.

McKenzie is another who I know you've said has been 'standing out' at training. And again, perhaps that is to do with the fact that Roos has got him training and playing in a more offensive and attacking way. He is now training as a receiver, rather than solely a negator. If that's the case, I can also see why he'd be standing out.

Anyway, I don't wish to derail the thread for some. It's good to hear different accounts of training. Everyone has their own things they like to look at which is why we have such contrasting reports at times.

Exciting that we have a fitter, deeper and more talented list this year in any case.